Geeeezus Christmas!
I don’t know what the he11 is going on these days? I’m only 31, but when I found my first job at 14 washing dishes, I was psyched just to have a job and worked my frickin’ tail off just to make sure I wouldn’t lose it!
I’ve gone through three 19-21 yr old “born and bred in America” kids this summer and it’s only the middle of July! It’s been the same thing with all of them. Show up late and then “can I cut out around 2:00 today? I gotta take my dog to the vet.” I’m not talking once or twice….I’m talking like three times per week! What gives? I’m paying good money to these kids, buying lunch, and not really asking too much of them. Just be there at 7 and you can leave at 4. Why do you have to come back from Dunkin’ Donuts smelling like weed and taking 45 min to make a 15 minute round trip? Whaddya think, I’m a frickin’ moron!? Now I’m supposed to pay you to play with power tools while yer all baked and sh1t? Work Saturdays? Yeah right!
I absolutely love the Brazilian guys working for me. They actually appreciate having a good paying job and that at least gives me the chance to appreciate them back. They just show up and work. No complaints whether it’s demo, digging footings, framing, siding, decking, whatever. They just do it and actually show an interest in it. What’s so hard about that? Is it “not cool” these days to look like you care…. even a little bit?
Last kid came from a single parent, not so well-off home. I figure, “this kid’s gotta be hungry, right?”. Wrong. First day, I take the kid to HD, buy him a small set of leather bags, tape, speed sq, chalk box, knife, hammer, etc. For the next week he’d basically drag the thing around the site like a dead dog on a leash. I’d tell him like three times a day to put the belt back on. Last straw…..
Me: “you can go ahead and set hangers on those joists”
Him: “can I use your hammer?”
me: “where’s the one I bought you?”
him: “I lost it”
me: “well it’s gotta be around somewhere” (we’re building a deck, not a 9000sq ft office building….how far could it have gone?)
him: “what’s the big deal, you’ve got like 5 more in the truck?”
me: “get in your car and drive very far away from me before I start ruining everyone’s day”
That ‘s the same kid who tried to send his buddy in to work for him one day cuz he was hung over. Yeah, that’ll fly.
I know this is much more of a rant than anything else, but I gotta get it out. American kids these days are lazy, useless, self-serving, ungrateful little snots. Prove me wrong…..I dare you.
I know I should just hire another Brazilian fella, but alot of them don’t have driver’s licenses and then there’s the whole language thing. I know customers feel a little more comfortable when I’m not on site (maybe an hour a day…tops…)and there is still someone there they can communicate with. You also have to be careful with them and make sure their SS #’s are legit because many of them are here illegally.
If you live in Metrowest, Ma and actually want a job and not just a paycheck for gracing me with your presence, just send me an email. No experience necessary. Just be sober, breathing, and drive yourself to the job in the damn morning. At 4pm your time is yours again. Want more hours than that? You got it! And for Pete’s sake, if I walk up to you onsite and make small talk….it doesn’t mean it’s your cue to SIT DOWN and drop your belt for the next half hour! Leaning against the wall or on a shovel and watching the Brazilian guys finish your work cuz you move like old people fu%k and are holding everyone up tends to set me off as well, consider yourself warned.
Sounds pretty appealing huh? Any takers?
Oh yeah, I’m looking for another actual carpenter as well. Seriously. I’ve got three 5000 sq ft’ers and 17 condo’s lined up for the fall with lots of good stuff in between.
I know I’m going to have to bite the bullet and put an add in the paper and do this the right way but I’m just looking for a little summer labor here. What happened to hiring “the kid down the street” for the summer?
Thanks for listening to my long winded hot air!
Replies
Sorry for your troubles, but I have to tell you that there are some good ones out there. I only use one other body, and it happens to be my 18 yo son. He can work, he tries to anticipate what I need, and will not take a break unless I say so. The sad part is, I can't use him all the time. The next two weeks he's in Alaska on a mission trip building a cabin for a retreat in the Tanta-something forest. When he comes back, though, he's got some catching up to do!
Keep looking. Todays video-fed and overbloated kids are more spoiled, but the cause is more often than not, their parents.
Hang in there.
I'm sure your son's work ethic is a direct result of your good parenting. I am somewhat rational and am sure there's still such a thing as "good kids" out there. Just had to vent.
Thanks, but I'll have to defer the compliment to his mom. She earned it more than I, I'm just enjoying the fruits of her troubles while I was at work.
I never met a tool I didn't like!
"" I am somewhat rational and am sure there's still such a thing as "good kids" out there."""
some of the best help i've had were from my venture scouts. oh and my sister after her first year @ university although we were ready to kill each other by friday lunch
it seems to me that we're all looking for someone with half a brain and an once of initiative
Sounds to me like you all expect to hire copies of yourselves for the price of a laborer.
Not meant as an insult, or anything rude. Just think about it.
"Criticism without instruction is little more than abuse." D.Sweet
Disclaimer:
I didn't mean that as a blanket statement, either. But I can see that it looks that way.
The underlying statement is undoubtedly true to much different levels for each individual. It was not meant as a blanket dismissal. Just something to think about.
Hey Jeff, what other disclaimer was I supposed to add ?
; )
"Criticism without instruction is little more than abuse." D.Sweet
I could never work for myself. I would just pi$$ myself off, and get fired.
LOL
Yeah, me too.
BTW: That statement DID come out a lot more sweeping than I intended.
I don't think everyone here is doing just that. And all the time.
I was trying to say that sometimes I would have to step back and have an objective view of the situation. Usually because I realized that if I was honest with myself, I had to admit that I was trying to find someone who was just like me, but who would work for wages I would not stand for. Labor wages.
Then I would change the way I thought at an interview.
In the end, I think I would probably have described what I was looking for, pretty much the way everyone here has decribed it.
It would have been really easy for me to join in with complaints about lazy slobs that wanted executive pay for sitting on their arses picking their noses. I would rather not do that.
Doesn't mean it wouldn't feel good to rant about it. Nor that it isn't a bit cathartic to read others.
; )
I just wanted to give another point of view to consider sometime.
"Criticism without instruction is little more than abuse." D.Sweet
Reading these posts, I wonder how much of it is all perspective.
Back when I was a teenager, I thought I knew everything. I even got fired from one of my first jobs for refusing to do what I was told. (I used to be bull-headed way back then).....(-:
My teachers used to tell me kids weren't like they used to be anymore. They didn't want to work, didn't know the value of a dollar, were mouthy, etc.
I thought old people were stubborn and set in their ways. (Old was anyone over 30)
I was told that kids were so lazy, anyone who could work with their hands would be able to charge a fortune, because no one would know how to do any physical work in a few years. (This was 25+ years ago)
So while I wasn't as bad or lazy as some of the examples you guys have given, I doubt these kids are all that bad. They'll eventually learn.
And the next generation of cranky old codgers like us will probably be saying the same things in 10 or 20 years.............(-:By working faithfully eight hours a day you may eventually get to work twelve hours a day. [Robert Frost]
Boss- I could not agree more. We have gone through our share of employees (young and old) who did not work out. Anyone who does not want to work weeds themselves out rather quickly. I don't look at this as a particularly bad thing, especially in the small towns we live in. I do know that the kid who we thought was almost worthless last summer looks pretty good this year and is able to tell his parents about carpentry projects undertaken at school to the amazement of his fellow students.
One of our subs is a painter who is constantly complaining about the quality of his help. They tend to be a rough bunch and his turnover is high. I have never had a problem with any of his employees. If he is not there (usually) I will tell his guys what needs to be done and let them know the quality I expect. They are able to do the work that I ask for if they take enough time and care doing it. He is often dissatisfied with some aspect of their work and is not shy about letting them know it. Yet he does so little himself and does poorer quality work if left on his own.
Sometimes we need to see our weaknesses in others to make them painfully obvious. Since we have been working with this painter, I find myself paying a little more attention to supervising and instructing our young workers, not coddling them but letting them know exactly what is expected of them and keeping them at it until it is done. I hope this patience will pay off.
Diesel,
If I was looking for a change of career, I'd be heading your way right away. Ain't nothing like a boss who appreciates your work. I spent lots of time in the field, labor and carpentry, while working summers between semesters in college. My current career, civil engineering, sucks sometimes. Actually, if you're your own boss, sometimes all jobs suck.
I wasn't too bad as a laborer, generally pulled close to my own weight, but I got to work with the owner's kid one summer. He was my age, and worth less than a bag of cracked bowling balls. Daddy's always buying him new tools, so one job we got to put plywood sheathing on a new 2-story colonial. Kid's got a brand new Paslode framing nailer, and guess what I get to do. Yeah, hump sheets of ply up the ladder while dingleberry gets to play with his new toy. I imagine that there's a hundred nails in each sheet. Kid's now some hot-shot banker, I guess. All summer, I got the krap jobs while junior got to tell me what to do.
As far as paying for expertise and experience, and not just getting a laborer - well if I could clone myself, or find someone who had just as much education and experience in some complimentary aspect of engineering or surveying, I'd offer a partnership immediately. I find that if someone's got just as much to offer as I do toward the success of the company, why shouldn't the rewards be equal?
Jon Endres, PE
Reading these posts, I wonder how much of it is all perspective.
There is no perspective that could make a lazy 17 year old kid sitting on a front stoop yapping on the cell phone look good while his mother and father are shoveling snow or cutting the grass.
So while I wasn't as bad or lazy as some of the examples you guys have given, I doubt these kids are all that bad. They'll eventually learn.
For every self-starting, go-getter in the workplace, there are 1000 drones. The drones are the kids that "had to learn".
This is a real interesting thread right now. I'm just done with day 2 of hiring a 16yo kid.
So far he doesn't seem lazy.
I know I gotta teach him the basics, like, If you can't work and talk, don't talk. Think before you act, what tools are you going to need? Etc, etc.
I figure he is my "community service" piece. I always try to have one, figure 'em into the bid.
I can only use him for 20 hours a week, but that is about my limit, too, for hard work. So far. I've done 5 hours today and may yet do another one. Feeeeelin' gooood!
He's got a sibling and a half sibling, a stepdad, who's out of state working, and a male parent who's out of state in prison.
Wish me luck as a teacher,
the Lord'll give me patience.
SamT
ya forgot the fact that "most of us" ... probably pay more than the going labor rate ...
and I'd bet most of us don't ask the "laborer" to do anything that we ourselves ain't doing at that exact moment.
So yeah ... I want to hire a copy of myself ... and will glady pay them way more than the price of a laborer if they actually do the work of a laborer alone for more than 2 days in a row ....
I should have had kids earlier ... I think growing them might be the only way to get good help ....
JeffBuck Construction, llc Pittsburgh,PA
Artistry in Carpentry
Good points.
Especially about the pay, and not expecting anyone to do something you wouldn't do yourself.
I could get picky as well, and say that if someone is asking for a laborer, they aren't asking for a copy of themselves. If they want a copy of themselves they should be up front about it. Not ask for a laborer, pay them as a laborer, and then expect them to be a copy of yourself.
But... I didn't forget those points. Just didn't want to get into writing another "tale of two cities" just to explain what I meant.
It wasn't an attack. It wasn't an accusation. And it wasn't mean to be a comprehensive thesis on construction employer-employee business relations.
Just something to give thought to. (And then go back to business as usual. LOL)
: )
"Criticism without instruction is little more than abuse." D.Sweet
The hardest worker I've ever worked with is my soon to be wife. Tell me I'm not the luckiest guy in the world. When she's got the day off, she's eager to shed the high fashion clothes and pick up a hammer. I can't say if its always been her style, but I know why she works so hard. She cares. She cares about me and she knows how I work till I'm sore and broken to get a job done right. So, she trys just as hard to let me know she gets it.
I'm usually a one man show, but I hire friends and friends of friends as things get busy. The things that motiviate all my good help or employees is that they care. Its important to them to show that they know my hiring them is a sign of respect, and they reciporicate. Its a fortunate pool of frinds to have, I know. And I'm also aware in that I expect a lot, I'm not a very good boss. But I let people know why I we need to do something one way or another and they develop an appriciation for the work.
What you really need to look for in your "kids" who come around looking for summer work, is that they have the ability to get involved and care about something--anything--and that should come across in the interview process. Hell, I'm only 25, I look just like the 18-21 year old flunkies on the jobsite, but if we met you'd probably notice a difference in enthusiam between myself and the kids who are sneeking off to get stoned. Its a difference I'm sure you can spot on a formal interview.
So I guess as I rant on and on, the point I should hurry up and come to is: Bag the idea of giving someone a chance before you know if they'll care or not, and move to a formal interview. You don't plant weeds next to your flowers just to pull them up later, don't put a guy or girl on the job until you know they're not a weed.
-duke
It wasn't an attack. It wasn't an accusation. And it wasn't mean to be a comprehensive thesis on construction employer-employee business relations.
I know ... I'm wit ya.
JeffBuck Construction, llc Pittsburgh,PA
Artistry in Carpentry
Ah
It's so easy to take things the wrong way when you can't see someone's face.
Sorry.
"Criticism without instruction is little more than abuse." D.Sweet
Yeah, that's why I've resorted to the little smiley faces when I'm joking, otherwise people get way too hostile, not knowing I'm kidding.
it seems to me that we're all looking for someone with half a brain and an once of initiative
Is initiative even a word in the language these days? I've been with a deck builder for about 6 weeks now here in GA. From my start time until last week, we had a 19 yo kid as a laborer. He's at least 50 lbs overweight and had the initiative of a slug. His basic job was to hump lumber, mix concrete, dig holes, nothing too taxing mentally but tough enough physically. He always complained about being heavy and thought the work would help him lose weight along with make a paycheck. Come lunch time, the kid pulls out a footlong hoagie, BIG bag of chips, several candy bars, and three cans of pop. Gear shifts into ultra low granny gear the rest of the day...
He quit last week and is working for minimum wage building boxes at a cabinet shop. Since he's been gone, we've increased production by about half.
I hired on as a laborer and the kid thought I was a flunkie there to do his work. He couldn't even tell from my talking with the boss that I knew what to do and was big on telling me what to do that first week. I almost had to bite my tongue several times that first week. After my first check, I showed up with a bag full of my own basics and was set to work cutting rafters for a screened in job. The kid got mad when I'd ask him to fetch more lumber. The boss just said at the time to get it myself to save time. Being in a position to need the work while not wanting to make waves, I humped my own lumber, cut all the rafters, and had them staged to install by the time the kid had walked around the job site with a wheelbarrow picking up scraps. He picked up exactly one wheelbarrow worth of trash in the time I spent doing my thing.
Incidentally, I'm 46 and still in relatively decent shape. I figured, lead by example so tried to show the kid how to pick up a handful of lumber to carry or how to manage a full sheet of T-111 to run up a ladder but it was all for nothing. The kid still only carried one 2 x 4 at a time and disappeared for chunks of time whenever he could. I tried talking to the boss about improving production and asked him about the kid's experience. I got some grumbling answer and let it go just figuring the work would weed him out soon enough. Sure enough, the kid's gone now. Oh well.....
Come to find out the kid is the boss's grandson so that answered a few questions. But quite honestly, if I were trying to make money, I'd look at him and say thanks, but I don't think this is your kind of work and keep looking. The moral of the story: sometimes not having help is better than having bad help.
"Dieselpig...carpenter-man"! well part of me sez: show up at Rhodefest and whine like that - and I'll throw cheese at ya! But the other part, the one that's been unsuccessful at recruiting for 2 vacancies...has mucho empathy for your situation. Perhaps you could blame it on your locale? as in - they're all a bunch of "mass-h*les"? NO?! gosh, that's what all my buds in New Hampster would say... (LOL!)
Seriously tho: GOOD LUCK!
It's drugs.
You sound like a lot of fun to work for. I blame it on the Red Sox.
Seriously though. Last year my 18 year old nephew asked me for a job. I said sure. he's a smart kid. I told him I could give him all the hours he wanted. He said great cause he was saving for a car. 4 days later he quit because his buddy's were hanging out all day and he was missing the fun.
Edited 7/12/2004 8:41 pm ET by maverick
I guess I'm supposed to believe you don't complain about anything, huh?
You thinkin' these guys were keepers? Square pegs, round holes if you ask me. We all actually have a damn good time when things "oiled". Throw in a lazy SOB and it brings down morale pretty quick with the whole crew though.
Edited 7/12/2004 9:03 pm ET by dieselpig
I hear ya!
of everyone on the crew, the one who complains most aboiut not having enough bucks can't get himself out of bed. Halfass decent hand when he unplugs his ears and listens, but .... you know the story.
Last pay period - two weeks a shot - he gets 35 hours instead of the usuall 88.
He actually worked 38 but I made a mistake. But, "if you'd been here to turn in your time card...now wait 'till next check "
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
funny, got the same thing with the summer helper at work now, ask him to clean, you have to point out every last damn piece of scrap that needs to be picked up. Keeps coming up every 5 minutes, "so is that all you have for me today?" just wanting to go home, and he didnt even bother to finish what he was asked to do 5 min earlier
the real kicker today, I tell him, take the truck, go scrap out so and so's, dump the trash, then take the trash barrels from the shop and empty them, I also gave him a 20 and told him to fill the tank cause I borrowed the truck last week while mine was in the shop
... I get back to the shop, company truck still full of the trash from the scrap out, trash barrels in the shop still full... tank still empty... he went home for the day
I lost it.
anyway, the reason I'm posting wasnt to rant, it just seemed to fit.
Boston has a gazillion colleges, might be to late now, as most students are not there, but go to the architecture departments, find out if they have a jobs board in the arch department, post some signs there.
lots of guys got summer jobs in construction at my school from the Arch department, trying to get some practical experience.
Glad you and Piff showed up. I was beginning to wonder if I had turned into some kind of hard-azz or something. I'm pretty sure I'm not expecting too much out of these guys. You got it right on the money with the guy having to point out every single scrap to pick up and constantly wondering if it was time to go home.....makes me crazy.
If they only knew that the more they complain about the weather or ask to go home......the longer I suddenly feel like working!
Great idea about hitting the arch dept at the local colleges. I'll file that one away for next summer. Thanks bud.
I am a full time teacher, and I "have my summers off", so I spend a good portion of the spring looking for work during "my summer vacation" Last year I worked as a flunkie for a one man remodeling show, had a blast and worked lie a dog. I was hoping to do it this year when my back exploded, so now its nothing heavy. I did refer another teacher friend who is now working very hard a making a good dime at too.... my thought (which might not do any good now) is to see if you can find some young teachers willing to learn... some of us are reasonably strong, most have a decent work ethic, and we truly want hard physical labor and 15 an hour is a lot of money!
Just my 2 cents!
Thanks J, that's another good angle. I guess I always think about "summer help" as being kids. A grown man already capable of holding down a job and only needing summer work sounds darn good right now. Never mind the fact that you guys have an education to boot!
I love it when somebody adresses a complaint with a positive solution or suggestion. Just today I had to ask somebody, "Are you going to stand there complaining about it or are you going to do something about it like I asked you to?"
Thanks for the positive note
but it still feels better to vent once in a while...
;)
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
I agree with you. I was "between jobs" (sort of--was doing sub teaching, but not enough to keep me busy and not much money) and applied at a temporary agency. They called my wife and she called me where I was working painting a friend's house and told me the agency called. Turns out the guy they hired in the morning went to lunch at noon and never returned. (A sub teacher did that once too, but that's another story) So I go out to this landscaping job. I used to work for a landscaper, so I'm familiar with the work. As soon as the other guy sees I know what I'm doing, he let's me take the lead. Fine. Soon the guy we're working for says I know more about the job than he does (although that didn't stop him from making me do things his way). So, me and the other guy, who is youger, work a couple days. We're ahead of schedule and the owner promises us a bonus if we finish by Friday. On Thursday it rains and Friday the other guy can't work.
I get to work on Friday and there's a new kid. Have to tell him everything--take this shovel, take the dirt out of that wheelbarrow and spread it this thick here and here, etc.. Told the kid to dump a wheelbarrow full of sod out in some rough areas out back. The HO had said not to dump it in a big pile, but to spread it out a little. So I tell the kid. He's back there for 20 minutes! I'm wondering if he's planting the sod or what! Finally he comes back and the HO tells him to fill the barrow with black dirt and bring it to us around the side where we're raking the beds out. Another ten or fifteen minutes goes by and the guy shows up with a half-full barrow. We dump it and the HO tells me to fill the barrow and bring it back. When I do, (in like three minutes) the HO says, "I don't think this kid has had a job before." I said I doubted it. I was 50 at the time, the kid was 17 or 18. Of course, we didn't finish on time--worked Monday and Tuesday; no bonus. Oh, I had to take a p*ss test to get this job!
I guess I had good training--when I was 42 (oh, just a young pup, said the 62 year-old guy who hired me) got a job as a framing carpenter (after being a planner for nearly 20 years). The foremen I worked with were always on the newbies backs--"swing that hammer like you got a pair" and so on. I think I was finally accepted the day another guy wouldn't go out on a roof because it was wet (was actually sleeting at the time). I scampered out there and the foreman says, "****! You act like you enjoy it out there!" I said, "I had a desk job for 20 years; to me, this is better!" (Though, I didn't really enjoy it more than the rest of the crew.)
Ok, rambled enough.
it's not even the age that matters ...
I told my tales of woe about the 26 year old "kid" that flaked out on me ...
just found out this weekend ... he's back to welding ... as the guy he left me to go work for ... "ran outta work" ... turns out that was code for ... he stopped showing up at that job too. My buddy said the kid worked one day a week for the last 4 weeks ...
One month ... total of 32 hrs ... than bitches and moans about those damn bill collectors and mortgage company that keep threatening sheriff's sale and turning off his utilities every other month ...
Everyone wants to "learn a trade" .. but seems they're all into hands-off learning ...
plus .. they want top dollar without even showing up and working hard enough to prove they're worth even minimum wage ...
I can't stand it ... I'm quick to fire.
No hugs and kisses here ... do the work or get the hell outta my sight.
that way actually helps keep the blood pressure down ...
and the wallet from getting too thin ... I ain't gonna pay anyone to stand around and "learn" ...
Jeff
Buck Construction, llc Pittsburgh,PA
Artistry in Carpentry
"seems they're all into hands-off learning ..."
I love the way you turn plain old words into value-added phrases!
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
Up in North Carolina, north of Boone where I've been building for years (another story) this kid showed up one day. Rode his bike up the hill and just started out helping. He lives at the bottom of the road, and his dad died last fall in a logging accident. He's so friendly I don't know if he's lonely or just so unsophisticated that he doesn't know any better and hasn't got that sarcastic, snotty attitude. He's 14 and taking votech classes. Must be doing something right because he anticipates what tool I'll ask for next and has it ready.
He's young but the type of kid you're looking for. I hope he stays as eager and doesn't get caught up in the crank scene up here.
I figure to give his momma some money to buy him something rather than get involved in child labor problems. As it is he is free to come and go as he pleases.
I'm so tempted ... I have my own small outfit going and get the blues often when I can't get my jobs close enough together, It always seems to me,I have "several ships in the harbor, but none are coming to dock...And the "money mailer" guy calls...He wants $800 to make my micro-business boom... All you need do at least to get me interested in throwing in with you at least temporarily, is pay for the U-haul rental and provide a cot-n-three "hots"(aside from the good pay I've gathered you could afford...Houston Tex. s@#ks for lead carpenters and independants in the shell framing and remodeling business.
By the way,I'm gonna get some pix of that roof rake, and I think you guys OK,well Mostly...
I washed dishes too. $1 an hour, seems like minimum wages was about that, I remember it was $1.25 shortly after.
Even worse, I got good at it.
Couple years ago my son let his wife's nephew help out.
Demo a fake fireplace, shovel up all the crap. How the hell can you operate a shovel when you have to stop once a minute to pull up your attractive gangster pants that are falling down past your azz?
Joe H
i feel for you .
the lad i had with me recently lasted 2 1/2 weeks.
it was only that long because i felt i should give him a proper chance.
man what a waste of space and effort.
on asking him why he wanted to train as a carpenter the reply was because my mum told me too.
as less motivated induhvidual i haven't met for a while.
on the last day i explained that i didn't need him anymore etc.... paid him and his reply was "so does this me you don't need me tomorrow"!!!!!!!
so i'm back to working on my own and enjoying it again.
Kostello, you coined a term and I had to laugh. Not sure if it the misspelling was intentional, but sooo appropriate. Thanks for the chuckle....
a less motivated induhvidual i haven't met for a while
Dieselpig, if I didn't live in Idaho, I'd call you up and see what we could work out!PJ
Whatever you can do or dream you can,
Begin it
Boldness has genius, power and magic in it. Goethe
i have scott adams ? the creator of dilbert to thank for that one
I've gone through four kids in four weeks. First two I got from a temp service just for some warm bodies on site. One guy was great and had some pole barn experience, which we do alot of. Other kid was okay.
After two weeks of digging post holes (with my Bobcat mind you) and stretching commercial chain link fence, kid number two decides he's made and starts bossing around kid #1, who is clearly more experienced, plus has a good work ethic, probably due to the fact that he is 26 and has four kids. Anyway, I put a stop to that and tell both of them that they are laborers and they need to earn their way up to foreman.
Kid #2 brings in a buddy who is 42 and smokes approx. 3 packs of camels a day. Can't even walk across the site without a smoke and breather. He is here two days. Of course between the three we have one Drivers license, and one car. They are all riding to work one morning and get pulled over for expired plates. They never do make it to work, all three had warrants and got thrown in jail. I'm pretty pissed, but can't do much about it. Three days later Kid #2 makes bail and just shows up for work. I tell him how bad that screwed us up schedule wise and he quits, citing my being rude every time something little happens, and he's worked for ALOT of companies and never been treated this rudely. Anyway it wasn't there fault they couldn't come to work, after all they were in jail.
I firmly explained to all three that if they would take care of the crap they need to to run a normal life, they wouldn't be in jail and to get the hell out of my sight.
Now I have my stepdad (60) working for me, and two Iowa farm kids that just graduated from high school, and want to learn the trade. Every day after work I ask the two kids how there doing, and the answer is always " awesome ". I don't want to lose these guys. My step dad shows up 30 minutes early every day, and spends the time cleaning the site like we have company coming over. My average laborer age is now 35, and I like the way it is going. Plus most of the time I'm out there digging holes, setting trusses, or whatever we need to do. I treat them as equals on site and don't ask them to do anything I don't or haven't ever had to do and it seems to work. Cole Dean
Dean Contracting
One guy was great and had some pole barn experience, which we do alot of.
bossing around kid #1, who is clearly more experienced, plus has a good work ethic, probably due to the fact that he is 26 and has four kids.
I firmly explained to all three that if they would take care of the crap they need to to run a normal life, they wouldn't be in jail and to get the hell out of my sight.
Cole,
I enjoyed your post. I am glad that it has worked out for you. Seems like the right thing happened for you. And that you deserved it.
I can't say that I think you did the wrong thing with the other three, because I don't feel that you did.
But I guess that I do feel a bit disapointed that you didn't give the 26 year old a chance to "take care of the crap he needed to, to run a normal life". While being able to support his family at the same time.
Seems like he was actually trying.
"Criticism without instruction is little more than abuse." D.Sweet
Edit: Geez, I hates when I do an html post, and forgets to put some ridiculous little marker in.
Edited 7/14/2004 6:19 pm ET by Luka
Luka,I should have clarified a little more. #1 and #3 were all but worthless after awhile, they needed to go anyway. #2- the 26 year old guy apparently did something pretty bad because he will be behind bars for 7 more months. Even at that I will gladly put him back on provided he is brutally honest with me and doesn't hand me a barrel full of excuses for why he was jailed in the first place. I don't really care, it happens, but to run the business you need to be able to depend on these guys, 7 months in the can is a little tough to schedule around, but as I said, this kid has real potential, and would dig holes and fill them back in again all day if I asked him too, so he will get another chance if he wants it.
Thanks for the reply,
ColeCole Dean
Dean Contracting
7 months. Whuf !!
Totally agreed on the other two. As Jeff Buck says, you can't babysit them.
But I do think the other guy is worth giving a chance to.
Good on ya ! Proud to know you.
And expecting brutal honesty is a good thing. If he really wants a chance, he'll do what needs to be done. Dishonesty is a habit that is hard to beat, for some. And it is probably the first habit he has to break when he gets out. His word has to be his pledge of honor.
Once that actually begins to happen, he'll find a new sense of self-worth. And he'll start acting with pride in other ways.
You have to be totally honest with him, and you have to expect total honesty back. But don't freak out and fire him the first time he falls back into old habit. Lay him off for no more than two days, and then let him get back at it, if you have to do anything. Repeat as needed. He'll either give up trying, or he'll become one of your best employees.
Another tip. Maybe he can't drive ? Have your stepdad pick him up for work. I think your step dad could be a fantastic example to him.
How are his wife and kids getting by ? Even the tiniest act of faith there could have huge consequences.
And you are, of course not required to do any of that. What you do in secret is what makes you the person you are. And I get the feeling that "required" has nothing to do with it.
"Criticism without instruction is little more than abuse." D.Sweet
Luka,
Funny, he is the one with the DL. And he can come up with transportation, or at least he could then. I had talked to him about his wife and kids, and she wasn't working at the time, plus he was only making $8/hr through that temp service. I only had about 1 week left through them before I could hire him outright penalty free, they get you pretty good for hiring them direct on the spot. He came from a family of 16 kids, so I imagine it was pretty thin for them at times, and spoke of numerous family members who were in prison or the like. He knows what he needs to do, and what it takes to get it done. I'm pretty sure he probably hoped that the warrant wouldn't catch up with him, but fortunately for him, I have seen the inside of the Sherriff's Hotel a time or two, only for the night. I wasn't always the stand up kind of guy I think I am now (TIC). Just need to talk to him when he gets out and see what direction he wants to go. I have only had my business for three years, so I really can't afford to babysit, but my first customers were willing to give me a chance, so I feel compelled to do the same for him. I honestly don't think he is a real criminal, just hanging with the wrong crowd, and that crowd is awful hard to shed once you're in. By the way, thanks for the words, it was nice getting some feedback on this, it can be a very frustrating issue in this game.
ColeCole Dean
Dean Contracting
any chance of work release? could make all the difference in the world for ya both..
Spheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks
Repairs, Remodeling, Restorations.
See if you can find a Christian high school, not one of the high end Ivy League prep school, but the kind of school that working class and lower middle class parents send their kids to. It seems that parents who pay a significant chunk of their income to keep their kids out of the public schools hold the kids to a little higher standard. Not that you can't find church going kids doing every lazy, dumb, and self destructive thing other kids do, but the odds of getting a good one are better.
These kids are secretly paid by us "good" carps to "lower the curve".
Some day when you hire one of "us" you will be sooooo happy you will lavish him with more that adequate compensation.
As hard as it might be, someone out there has to make me look good!!
And you found him!!!
Mr T
Happiness is a cold wet nose
Life is is never to busy to stop and pet the Doggies!!
I'm certainly not an old man at 25, with only a few years of work experience since college. But I have to agree with you "experienced" guys about the labor situation. I have only worked with two guys my age in my 6 years in construction (including summers). One was a pretty good worker, and the other would take off all the time, carry as little as possible, and ended up just not showing up one day. But his soon-to-be stepdad was the lead. High-schools and colleges teach the motivated kids to get "good" jobs at a desk behind a computer. Every kid in school thinks he is going to be the next Bill Gates or whomever. I've read articles about how the trades, especially in the future, will be losing more people than they are gaining. It's hard to get work out of someone who wants a job, not a trade.
A view from the other side:
My first job I had lined up 4 months before graduation. I drove out to Colorado over spring break from MO to meet with the guy and we seemed to be a good match. When I got there, things went well, but we apparently had a miscommunication on wages (read: he was going to pay me less than he said he would). It was $1.50/hour difference, so it was significant, particularly since I was a 1099 worker. So I had no possibility of benefits AND had to get liability insurance. I bought new tools all the time, have a nice truck, showed up every day from 7 or 7:30 to 5 or 5:30, and dealt with the nice, if moody, lead carpenter. I would haul scaffolding, tool boxes, etc. in my personal truck and trailer with no compensation. (How about just buying me a sandwich?) After about 6 months I realized the owner wanted something for nothing.
Diesel- you sound like you're more than nice to these guys. Good luck.
You sure you don't want to come out to MA?
The winter's are great and I'll buy you that sammich.
Deez... the painter on my job has 4 youth (my wife calls them 'Utes') working for him. One young lady and three young men, all 21 or less, filling holes, sanding, priming, painting, scraping, sanding, spraying, masking, taping, grunting, etc. They are all working hard and are there every day at sun-up and getting into being paid tradespeople. I gotta tell you... I am floored... he's a genius. He has somehow weeded thru a huge crop of high schoolers and summer visitors and found a crew, and they're painting a very expensive house inside and out, and doing an ace job of it. The only better trick I can think of would be to own a machine that prints money.
I agree with you. Kids these days seem to be lazier than I could ever imagine. I was taking care of my brother and sister when I was 8yrs old. Why? Because my mom was trying to get a college degree and learn English at the same time(we're from Vietnam...came in '74) and my dad was working construction (weekdays during the day), the docks in Elizabeth (weekdays at night), and then as a cleaning man (weekends). With all that, my dad still managed to get a four year college degree and my mom put dinner on the table everynight by 6pm.
My parents had my siblings and me do everything from laundry, cutting grass, throwing out the garbage, and then later on, small construction jobs (roofs, painting). Guess what we got paid? Zip! We got paid in clothes, shelter, and food. Allowance? I didn't even know the meaning of the word as a kid.
These days, I see stuff that needs to be done, I just do it. It doesn't matter if it's "men's work" or "women's work". I just do it because it needs to be done and I'm in a position to do it. While growing up was hard, the work ethic I have no is all due to my parents and how they raised me.
While you can't blame the parents for everything, if you're kids have grown up lazy, it's the parents to blame IMO.
I agree that it can be the parents' fault. I've only got step-daughters and I married when they were in highschool, so didn't have a lot to do with raising them, but it seems that raising kids requires work. They don't raise themselves (and, despite what Hillary says, the "village" isn't much help unless you want some screwed up kids). I especially see problems in single parent homes, especially where women are trying to raise male kids. The kids don't respect their mom--they need someone who can make them see the light (like when they're lying on their back wondering what hit 'em and just what possessed them to make that comment, or do that thing).
I worked around the house and didn't get an allowance--it was expected that the kids help out. Now everything is handed to them and they value nothing and don't even have self-respect because they know they've done nothing to deserve it.
If you want an eye opening experience, become a substitute teacher and see what goes on at school. Everyone gets "stars" (no grading, at least in elementaries where I taught) because if they didn't it would hurt their self esteem. There's free breakfast and free lunch. No discipline. After recess I'd have 2/3 of the kids come in wanting bandaids or ice to put on imagined wounds they'd suffered out on the playground. The kids are rude and obnoxious. One kid in fifth grade refused to do his math and went around talking and disturbing others. I asked him why he felt he didn't need to know any math and he said he was going to be a golf pro. A fifth grader! Others would argue with me that I was doing the math (or English, whatever).
The inmates are running the asylum. Cannot even touch kids. In highschool a boy was feeling up the girl next to him so I asked him to go out into the hall. He refused. When I went to grab him, he informed me that I wasn't allowed to do that (he was right--could be sued, reprimanded, etc.) (Yet he can molest the girl sitting next to him--sweet.) One boy talked during a movie and then said he wanted to go to the office. I said no, he could just sit and watch the movie, whereupon he said, "If you don't let me go to the office, I'll have my mom sue the school like she did last year!" That's only a few of my experiences.
One more thing...
My neighbor across the street is raising a couple of kids just like the one's you're dealing with. One is in high school driving, the other is a freshman in college.
Every week the father is cutting the lawn while both kids are sitting on the front stoop talking on their cell phones. The father complains that he gave up on them cutting the grass because they always left huge patches of uncut grass. They have a rectangle lot. How hard could it be? If that was my dad, he would've made me keep mowing until I got it right.
Also, every snowstorm, the father and mother are out shoveling snow. The kids are hanging out inside or playing with the dog in the snow. My family had one snowshovel growing up. I used it while my brother and sister used dustpans and my mom cleared the cars (dad was at work.)
If I had 2 sons in their late teens, there is no way in hell that I would shoveling snow or cutting grass.
"If I had 2 sons in their late teens, there is no way in hell that I would shoveling snow or cutting grass."
I thought that was what sons were for. Mowing the lawn and shoveling snow and cutting wood and hauling wheelbarrow loads full of dirt around. If there weren't any chores handy, my dad would invent some just to keep us busy.
Of course, he waited until AFTER we'd all grown up and moved out of the house before he bought a nice big lawn tractor to do all that stuff.
Two sons in their teens are probably the most expensive labor money can buy. I can't imagine letting them get bored for long either. Kevin Halliburton
"The Greek comic poets, also, divided their plays into parts by introducing a choral song, ... they relived the actor's speeches by such intermissions." Vitruvious, (Book V)
My son -- strong, smart, hard worker, easy to get along with, can figure out things on his own and work independently -- can't get a summer job. He's applied to several of those "carpenter's helper wanted -- no experience needed" jobs (along with several other things) but they never even bother to reply.
I feel for your son. I was in his same shoes myself when I was younger. I remember trying to earn enough money during summers to pay for college. I wanted to work and do nothing else. I had no choice; I had a tuition bill to pay.
I remember I couldn't get a full time job in the summer because summer jobs were only part time. I tried everything from fast food to construction. I finally was able to get two part time jobs with compatible schedules. I worked from 5-10am and then 4-10pm and slept in between. I did it for 7 days a week for 2 summers. It was horrible but I did it because I was determined to go to college.
This isn't related to your son: as a side note (not to pat myself on the back or anything) but I just got this huge sense of gratification from putting myself thru school. Every year, my dad would help me move in on campus. On his way out, he would offer me money for school books (they cost at least $200 a semester.) I always declined. I figured that I had enough money for books and tuition. What I needed money for was "play money". I felt that it wasn't my parents responsibility to fund my partying.
I hope your son finds a job and someone out there recognizes his eagerness. It's unfortunate that someone like him is probably hitting barriers due to other kids laziness. Good luck.
Check into forming a partnership with a local, equal-minded and skilled adult. Working with someone who has mastered the general basics in all realms of building & remodeling & is probably in the same boat as you, might be advantageous?
Tip - Lead by example, set the pace, set the expectations & pay a "living wage"
challenge your workers..... enthusiasm & pride is contagious.
Another possible pool of good workers - firemen. Around here they work 7 or 8 days a month and they all have something on the side. Alot work as trade helpers and eventually branch out on their own.
In our neck of the woods, the firemen and police guys start up their own business and undercut the current market by working for cash (i.e. no taxes ) and bid jobs against us who are trying to make a legit living. Kinda frustrating.... they likely won't get audited because they already have a real job and a real paycheck
Not overly harping- they have a job that I wouldn't want no way... but if they earn their legit living already from the tax payers, why can't they leave well enough alone and let the small guy make HIS legit living...First we get good- then we get fast !
Here in CA shop fire extinguishers have to be checked, recharged and tagged every year.
The guy who did mine was a retired fireman. Looked to be mid 40s.
He wanted the checks made out to cash so he wouldn't have to declare them and pay tax.
Now, this SOB is retired, drawing a pension paid with CA taxpayers $ and he wants to cheat on his taxes?
Every fireman I've ever run across with a part time gig is undercutting legitimate business & cheating on the taxes too. Most of them are happy to tell you about it too.
Joe H
Joe H
DP,
been reading thru this thread.
there are two things I can definately do.
show up
breath
as long as you don't expect anything else, I may be just who you are looking for.
oh forgot, I'm good at watching people work
_____________________________
bobl Volo, non valeo
Good thing about this business if it never ceases to amaze!
Had a new crew guy wanted the company to supply him with a cell phone so that he could call us if he was going to be late....and he was serious. I looked at him like he had just landed from Mars.
We put three guys in a regular cab truck going to the job site. One of the guys did not want to ride in the truck and wanted to take one of the other trucks by himself. When I inquired why, he stated because he was touching the other guys when they all rode together in one truck.
Chuck,
I know the feeling. For all I care, they should just drive to the jobsite from home. But we need to haul bobcats, and other heavy stuff so I provide the trucks. Some of them aren't all that great, but I hear about how nice it would be if that one had a CD player in it. After I let one guy drive my truck and changed all of my presets from country and easy listenting ( which is my on the road therapist ) to crap like- hell I don't even know the names, but I hated it, I told them that they can listen to whatever they want but if the next time I start my truck and my ears get blown out with Spawn, or Kid Rock they will be walking home from the job. It got the point across.
ColeCole Dean
Dean Contracting
Hey Y'all,
This here line of discussion is amazing!! Anyone remember the Monty Python skit where all the blowhards are sitting around in the gentleman's club complaining about "... the youth today,..."? And then Cleese interrupts with that bit about : "Right! When I was a lad we used to work twenty-nine hours a day down mill, and when we got 'ome Dad would kill us and cut us in two with a bread knife an' dance around the kitchen singin' 'allelujah!" . I feel like I just fell through the ceiling of that club.
Gerard
Did ya have a nice trip ?
; )
"Criticism without instruction is little more than abuse." D.Sweet
dieselpig,
Here is my secret 'summer kid' hiring formula.
Note: I'm sure that this breaks many laws.
1. Catholic or Christian High School kids.
2, Working class parents. Or single working Mom.
3. Going to college, none or small scholarship. Preferably 4 year school, but will consider JC with intent to transfer.
4. Previous employment must include at least one full year, continuous, at a fast food restaurant, preferably McDs.
5. Pay them more than they made a McDs, and more than their friends are still making there. By a couple of bucks an hour or more.
6. If you want 3, hire 5.
7. While all are present, fire the worst one at the end of the first day.
8. One week later, fire the second worst one, while all are present.
My boys come back every summer, until they graduate. Then, I wish them well.
Hope it gets better.
skipj
'If you can't be a good example. at least be a horrible warning.'
That youth attitude really gets me. I don't know where they get it from. I was not the perfect teen by any means, but my 'tude was more or less the right direction.
One of my yutes was working with me on a roof - flat deck over roof, actually - and when I started to give him some advice how to do a task better, he told me that didn't "need you telling me how to do this" in a rather loud voice.
My impulse was to knock his head off. Instead, considering the location and all, I quietly told him to go sit on the ground on his own time until he was ready to come to work. Ten minutes later, I saw him come back up the ladder and stnad there looking embarrassed. I told him, "If you are ready to listien to me, and do what I want you to do, I have plenty of work that you can do, but if you want to ignore me, it's time to utrn around"
He got real productive the rest of the day.
The next day, I took hiom aside, awaay from the rest of the crew to avoid embarassing him, and went over things, and made it clear that there would NEVER be another outburst like that on my job again. It was HIS job to control himself and to learn to pay attention to me and do what I was paying him for. He apologized and agreed.
He has a short attention span and a learning disability that makes him remind me of our old friend Larry here. He can work hard when he is motivzted but finding the key to his motivatior is a job sometimes.
But because he spend all those years in school being made fun of by his peers and some teachers, his has built up a defense mechanism internally where he tends to take any criticism or sugestion as a personal insult and to get riled by it to defend his ego.
Some of these bad attitudes get reinforced by peers though I think. I had one kid that I overheard telling another guy, "Every boss I have ever worked for is a real azz" You can geuss how long he lasted - and it was for his own nonperformance and not because of what I heard.
Welcome to the
Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime.
where ...
Excellence is its own reward!
A big "thank you" to all who replied to my rant. Lots of good ideas, perspectives and relating went on....turned out to be a pretty good thread IMHO.
As luck would have it, a fellow BT'er is moving fairly close to me and is looking for some hours. He can't work full time, and we're not 100% sure the commute is going to work out, but it's a good start. Also got a phone call from a website where I posted in the "help wanted" section. A 5 yr union fella is looking to come over to this side of the fence (sick of the layoffs) and we're going to talk when I get back from vacation.
Been a really long week, but only one day and a wake-up until "vacation". I'm going to have to drive back and forth a couple of days next week to do a little work, check on things and set up the next job, but it's still going to be nice.
Thanks again folks.
You complain about your help not showing up and now you want to go on VACATION??? Where are your priorities?
Seriously, have a good time. I'm sure you have earned it.
Jon Blakemore
Glad to hear it's working out for you. And too bad about those dumb kids. I gained a lot of benefit working with my brother on a framing crew for a summer. The boss worked me hard, and so did my brother. It was out in Calgary, so I froze every morning and roasted every afternoon. Carrying all that lumber and sheathing and nailing up walls (who needs a nailer when you've got a cheap kid?) toughened me up pretty quick. Gawd, I hated balancing on the joists and nailing bridging! But the pay was good enough that I felt that the labour was respected- I wasn't slaving pointlessly. Reinforced the respect I already had for people who did hard, physical work for a living, and taught me that I'd rather not be one of them! Those kids missed some valuable lessons by shirking the job you'd given them. And as I've said here before, working with my hands makes me a better engineer- and that early experience was formative for me.
Definitely think it's a family thing- hard to value labour if you've got no experience with it and neither do your parents. No chance of getting out of my parents' household without that respect. Going to instill the value of labour into my kids as best I can- with a dad who DIYs just about everything out of love, hopefully they'll catch some enthusiasm for working with their hands from the old man. Or run screaming from it- gotta be careful not to overdo it and take the fun out of it, I guess.
Like you, local builders are bitching that they can't find labourers these days, much less carps. And unemployment up here's more than 7%. Something doesn't figure. Either they're not paying enough or there's a lot of lazy bastards out there- probably both, come to think of it.
Beware of the union member who claims to be sick of the layoff. I worked union for 9 years without missing a day unless i wanted to. But layoffs happen and sometimes they happen to good men. The difference is when good men get layed off they go right back to work. In Indiana a union carpenter makes approx. $50,000 per year plus $10-$12 per hour in benefits ie: health insurance, pension. Now what im thinking is if this guy is any good hes working at least 9 months per year, at that wage he can afford to take 3 months off unless you plan on matching his union pay package, and he will still propably make the same money. Dont get me wrong there are plenty of problems with the union. I will share that another day. It just seems suspicious to me when union men complain about lack of work, or dues when youre making those wages not to mention the overtime packages. I hired a couple union guys when i first started my business thinking they would be very skilled boy was I wrong.
Justin,
I appreciate your feedback. Here in Boston we've had something going on called "The Big Dig". You may have heard of it. Has kept tons and tons of union guys busy for about 10 years. Well, now it's winding down, and some companies that haven't had to look for work for 10 years are now azz-out. Seems to be alot of union guys trickling down into the private sector lately.
Besides, I'm willing to give pretty much anyone a shot.
Hi Diesel
I've been my own boss for about 30 years.
To be honest, I'm a lousy laborer, too lazy.
I've had alot of people work for me over the years.
Had 2 different shop persons who were drunks. Both ended up asking for more money, and my answer was always no. They weren't worth more.
Had a kid from a Tech School. Didn't know his #### from his elbow. I asked him what he was learning and found out how little. Had to let him go after his final screw up cost me alot.
Had a high school kid who only showed up 1 day.
Had another high school kid who thought he was gonna be a long haul trucker and computer programmer when he graduated, he didn't last the day.
Finally gave up on kids totally.
If I hire someone to work for me, I hire an older Pro who has his own tools and is more expensive. That way I don't have to re-invent the wheel and explain everything.
Last project I worked on, I did everything from digging out to finish work. The people I hire will do the same.
Trouble is, not enough good people in my area with any extra time. They book up real fast.
I have a friend working with me now. Knows his stuff, has all his own tools and then some, and I trust to do everything right.
We don't always agree on the way to do something. But then, we discuss it and use the best idea, sometimes mine, sometimes his. Sometimes, I have a totally different outcome I want and he realizes why I'm doing it a strange way.
Best of all, when we work, he keeps me moving all day and we do the work of 4 people.
Good luck with the help.
Jeff
Talk about Dejavu. I've been thinking about starting this thread all week. This kid I've had this past week doesn't think anything of jumping out of the truck and chatting up girls at red lights. I left him standing at one, he had to walk a mile back to the job. And that was the least of the problems I've had with him. I finaly had to take him for a ride to the parts store for a finger in the face. "Do exactly what I tell you, everytime I tell, you or I'm gonna break your F'n nose." talk. He kind of seemed to like that attitude and was really prompt and respectfull the rest of the time.
Who Dares Wins.
Something here about kids reminded me that the best help I ever had was one I hired straight out of high school. His mother took in laundry and ironning and I was unmarried back then. His Dad had just had a heart attack and was recovering but was an old time hard working union carp and miner.
I stopped by to pick up or drop off my clothes and the mom asked if I needed any help which happened to be true. So I told her to have hiom show up at seven AM the next day.
Nowdays, I never hire help without an interview and having that person be the one to ask me for the job. Too many times whhen a mother, girlfriend, or foather, uncle, friend or whatever asks on behalf of the potential hiree, it means that they really don't want the job anyway. The person has no initiative, bad signs from the start, but I knew this kid a bit 'cause he was a wrestler and I had seen mhim in action at the local school.
He ended up my partner for a couple years.
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
Ahhhhrgghhh! I just read through the whole thread. Looks like a pretty common problem we all share. WTF is wrong with the young 'uns? I'm only 38, and I don't feel that old( exceptfor all the aches and pains!) but the kids we hire these days are from some other planet or something. Our rate of attrition is probably close to 15 hires to 1 "keeper". I am planning on starting my own buisiness in 2 years, and I worry a lot about being able to find decent employees. The work ethic that was beaten into my thick skull in the early years seems to be gone, or the kids are getting thicker skulls.I don't know how many times I've had my boss send me some "young man who needs a break", had him stick around for a couple days or weeks, even months, before he just stops showing up, or cops some outrageous attitude. And we are one of the best outfits to work for, well, anywhere, I'd wager. High wages, benefits, paid hollidays, year round work, good bunch of people, especially the boss. I don't think these kids realize what they are walking away from.
I sympathize. I decided very early on, when I used to work for the hotel industry in the 80's, that I didn't want to be an employment manager for anyone because the odds are--and have always been--that there are fewer motivated, dependable people than there are jobs. Especially if the worker has a steep learning curve and doesn't have many work experiences. I'd interview 100 people, hire 15 and only 10 would be working for us at the end of the year. And that was a better ratio than they had before! I hated--HATED--firing people, so I interviewed more to try to get better odds the first time around. The average turnover ratio in a Chicago hotel was 118% back then. You would have an entirely NEW 300 person staff every 11 months. That is so nuts. Perhaps it's the same for you.
New employees don't realize that, if the boss works 10 hours today, they will have to work 12 hours/day in the beginning and get paid for 10 because learning how to do some things are slow at first. Maybe they won't be at the job site that whole time, but they'll need to be asking questions in the truck to and from the site, or practicing how to use a nail gun on the weekend. Their own, which they have to invest in.
Many vo-tech schools are woefully behind in terms of funding, resources and diverse educational experiences. Investing in computer technology is taking larger and larger portions of budgets. And I noticed, when I was studing the school system, that they teach some skills...but no one was teaching the students HOW to be EMPLOYEES. It sounds strange that you would have to learn this. But some folks do need to learn it.
And the kids who were maturing and becoming adults at 20-22 (with first steady job, often marriage and first child) when you or I were that age? The average age of maturation has crept up to 26-30. So, today's 26-30 year olds were yesterday's 20-22 year olds. Not everyone, everywhere or all of the time. But it is a demographic trend in the US. (Can you tell that I used to be an ethnographer and a consultant? Sigh. It's just in my blood.)
There are always inexperienced workers who will be great at being employees. And a lot more who won't. There are great bosses and more who aren't so great.
Has anyone ever tried a formal temporary period with a new employee? I'm curious about that in the trades. Actually sit down and cover the basic expectations of a new employee with the person and then, at the end of 5-10 working days, sit down with them again to tell them whether they will be continuing on with you or not? These arrangements were increasing when I left the corporate world and I am just curious. I'll attach a form that would be modified for the trade. I don't know if this would work or not.
Thanks.... jmo
I'll do it but you've got to promise not to discriminate against me because of the way I dress.
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Who Dares Wins.
Never will forget this. Early summer,we're getting tools out[7:00am] when a mother and fat son walked past doing their morning walk.Only heard a glimpse of their conversation; mother to son-"you're not spending the summer sitting in the house". With the appropriate frown on fat kid's face.I DIDN'T DO IT...THE BUCK DOES NOT STOP HERE.