Replies

1. 
   Frankie | Jan 07, 2003 05:20am | #1

   Canvas was used to offer additional structure to the wall/ ceiling surface. Smoothness is acheived by a troweling. Canvas all you want, but if you don't have the technique/ touch your wall will never be smooth.

   Nowadays, fiberglass mesh, available in 36" widths, is used for the same purpose.

   Are you looking to smooth out the ceiling and why?

   What is the ceiling composed of now?

   Does it have hairline cracks, or is it developing "craters"?

1. 
   TALIAFERRO | Jan 07, 2003 05:40pm | #2

   Hi Frankie, Thanks for your reply. The ceiling is in a large house built in the 1920's outside of Boston using the best constuction techniques and materials. The canvas has come down on the living room ceiling due to a 2nd floor leak. It is my understanding that the plaster remains in pretty good shape and that the canvasing had been done as an expensive finishing technique done only in the 20's in cities with some wealth. I can't find anything on the internet except it's use to repair damaged plaster, but I don't think that's the case here.

1. 
   Frankie | Jan 07, 2003 06:13pm | #3

   So you're just curious and don't need the info for repair reasons?

   No problem. Info is always good, but it helps when asking a question to direct the responder so you get what you really want.

2. 
   riverr1 | Jan 07, 2003 06:47pm | #4

   There's not many of us around anymore that do canvassing. I'm sorry, but your information concerning how it was done, and why it was done is a little off base. Canvassing was used as a repair technique and it was not "imbedded" into wet plaster. It's not a process that could very well be explained on a forum. Besides, canvass is not as available as it once was. I'm in the great lakes region, and since the sail shops have gone to nylon, gortex and kevlar, canvass is only carried by the "purist" sail makers. Theatre supply sources are you best bet for finding it in the size you need.

   Fiberglass is you best bet as a DIY'r as suggested. Check out Spec-chem.com and a product called Nu-wall. I've used it and tested the product for Walls and Ceilings magazine and gave it a good review. If you follow the directions, it is a very user friendly product. If you call them they will send you a video on the application process. HTH

   Don

1. 
   Piffin | Jan 09, 2003 05:37am | #5

   I don't know beans about canvas ceilings but is it poossible that in your area it was only used for repairs whjile in Boston it was used for special effect or whatever? New England is/was a big sailing culture and canvass was used for every thing you can imagine.

   I've replaced several flat roofs over porches that were done in the same manner used in boats for some roofs. A thick varnich was applied to the prepared deck surface and canvass rolled into it and nailed down at the edges with thousands of tiny nails or tacks. Then an oil based deck paint or varnish was applied in several layers until waterproof. It needed to be re-painted every year or two.

   The point being that while it is similar to modern fabric/membrane roofing repair techniques, in its time, it was considered something special to have. Canvasssed ceilings might have been considered so too, tho God only knows why..

   Excellence is its own reward!

1. 
   riverr1 | Jan 09, 2003 07:59am | #7

   Piffin,

   A lot of things done were regional. As clampman points out, canvass was used for more then one reason. At one time the limes in plaster were regional, and not all regions had good quality limes. There were no mass producers or mass transportation. This effected the quality of the plaster and the work that could be done. Many of the plastering problems of the past were also ethnic. Traditions from elsewhere were followed that weren't necessarily the best traditions to be following for that time and place, where ever that may have been. 

   Clampman,

   There's more to properly canvassing a wall then hanging it like wallpaper. The proper use of battens and a darby for example. If this wasn't the case, why canvass? Use a heavy fabric wall paper or plain angalypa (SP??) and get that result. You bring up a good point about murals though. Many are not painted insitu, they are done on canvass and then put in place. It's what at one time separted a mural from a fresco according to Millar.

   Don

1. 
   clampman2 | Jan 09, 2003 07:11pm | #8

   Don,

   I have to disagree with you.

   Since helping Tony hang the muslin in my house, the only differences I can see between that and wallpaper is that I can do muslin but wallpaper is way beyond my ability and temperament.

   Tony hung it like wallpaper, and these were the best looking walls I have ever seen. I defer to his judgement in these matters as he is routinely flown around the country, with occasional trips to England and Spain and France to hang hand painted murals on truncated dome cathedral (as in church) ceilings and the like. He has done restoration work in the Governors mansion in CT; has conferred with the Smithsonian restoration artists on adjusting substrate ph's; won back to back national awards for ceiling of the year from the National Wallpaper Hangers Guild; he does testing work for some of the biggest wallpaper and fabric manufacturers and well as paste manufacturers in the world.

   Since the materials he handles often cost more than my entire house did, Tony did my house simply because he is a very close friend. And he didn't even have to hire a guy whose sole job was to wipe the sweat off his face and arms so he wouldn't ruin the material.

   Hanging raw muslin and canvas on relatively flat (ie. not domes, eliptical ceilings, barrel vaults etc) ceilings seems easier to me than hanging wallpaper. There are tricks etc. to it like with everything, which is why I suggested to the poster that he call Tony.

   I think I could do it alone, with a phone refresher from Tony, and if I can do it, any competent paper hanger can.

   Clampman

1. 
   riverr1 | Jan 10, 2003 12:38am | #9

   Clampman,

   I hope you didn't think I was saying you didn't do what you said you were doing! No, I'm sure you put up your canvas as you describe. My point isn't that you can't do it, but that is not the traditional way to canvass a wall. Properly canvassing a wall is not the same as hanging a prepainted mural which is really not different then a floorcloth.

   If what you did makes your needs and makes you happy, great! That's what really matters.

   Don

3. 
   clampman2 | Jan 09, 2003 06:41am | #6

   Talia,

   You are absolutely right. There is no comparrison between walls or ceilings covered with canvas or muslin and a standard plaster or drywall.

   I ran muslin on all of my downstairs walls and ceilings in my ex-house, helping out a very good friend who does it for a living. In addition to spanning all the little imperfections in the walls and ceilings, muslin and canvas forms a seamless, neutral base for paint.

   http://www.rosebrand.com, 75 9th Ave. Manhattan carries heavy weight muslin up to 39 feet wide and 100 yds long. The per yard price varies with width, starting at $5.78/yd for 108" width. Any competent wall covering hanger can do the install. You should be able to get the job completed for less than you think.

   Rosebrand also carries canvass in 7,9, and 12 oz. The heavier products will show a texture after painting. Muslin too can show a fine texture if you tint your primer then apply only one coat of paint.

   If you want more information from my buddy, who is one the the top silk and artistic (ie painted mural) installers in the country, send me an email and I'll give you his phone #. He won't do it for you, but probably knows someone up in your area who can, or can explain the technique to a paper hangar. It is glued on like wallpaper, not imbedded in plaster.

   Clampman

   
   

   ---

   Edited 1/8/2003 11:04:50 PM ET by clampman

1. 
   bindu | Jul 12, 2004 05:22pm | #12

   Hello. We are about to try canvas as a finish surface on a ceiling (drywall). We will then paint said canvas. Questions:

   (1) What to do about seams? Use joint compound or wood moulding or what?

   (2) How much surface prep on the drywall is necessary for a smooth finish? Is using joint compound on just the tapered seams enough? We want to avoid the insanity of taping/mudding an entire ceiling.

   (3) Should the adhesive cover every sq. inch of surface before applying the canvas?

   (4) Is Roman's Clear 880 or 838 the best adhesive to use?

   (5) Is sizing necessary?

   (6) What is the easiest width to work with (on 10 ft. ceilings)? Rosebrand has every width available.

   Thanks in advance. Bindu

   Edited 7/12/2004 10:27 am ET by bindu

   Edited 7/12/2004 10:37 am ET by bindu

   Edited 7/12/2004 11:04 am ET by bindu

4. 
   NYCframer | Jan 10, 2003 03:04am | #10

   All the canvas that I have seen on my jobs were all on finished surfaces and were then painted, this was on top of the standard plastered wall, or cieling.

   All the buildings that I have worked in are considered pre-war 20's 30's

5. 
   archyII | Jan 10, 2003 03:31am | #11

   In the two houses that I have owned in Chicago (a 1921 and a 1931 bungalow) both had canvas applied to the plaster and the canvas is then painted.  I have been told that the canvas was used to hide the hairline cracks.  When you pull it off there is an adhesive left behind that washes off with water.  I believe that the canvas was applied like wall paper with wall paper paste .  My HD sells the canvas.

6. 
   csnow | Jul 12, 2004 08:32pm | #13

   My understanding is that canvas was often used as a quick 'coverup' on a wall or ceiling in rough shape.  It is not unusual to find canvas walls or ceilings in New England.  Some fancy rooms have painted canvas panels with ornate framing on ceilings or walls.  Easier to paint at the studio than in place.  Some victorian homes even have canvas panels on the outside walls as part of the ornamentation.

7. 
   kalafa2 | Dec 20, 2019 10:42am | #14

   My canvas covered plaster walls (1920 California bungalow style house) what appears to be splits or cracks throughout —Cracks in the canvas as opposed to cracks in the plaster. Does anyone know how to address this? In some places the canvas is lifting off the walls.