Replies

1. 
   Griff | Jul 25, 2006 04:15pm | #1

   Hail Knight:

   I did not remove the tubes supporting my deck framing - frankly, I'm not sure you could; the cement seems to hold them fast for a couple of years.

   The tube finally did rot away and unfolded from the concrete pier, and did leave a bit of a green mold stain on the pier (there's no sunlight under the deck and it's moist because it never dries out). But, by then, I had hidden the piers (mostly) behind lattice work 4'x8' panels. You can still see them somewhat, but not enough to notice the staining or the bits of cardboard left on them.

   I suppose you could wash the concrete with a strong soap and water mixture, or maybe a diluted muriatic acid solution, or both, to clean it. It's just not that worthwhile to me to do that hidden as they are.

   Griff
1. 
   Knightdiamond | Jul 25, 2006 04:24pm | #2

   Hi Griff!

   Thanks for the response. My piers will be in a sealed crawlspace. They won't be visible at all. Nor will they see any sunlight. So if they soften up they will create a pathway, (albeit small) for "The Enemy" , (Water & Critters) to get into my crawlspace and I can't have that. They sure look like an easy way to form a pier though.

   Thanks!

                 KD

1. 
   Griff | Jul 25, 2006 04:50pm | #3

   KD

   "My piers will be in a sealed crawlspace. ....So if they soften up..."

   I assume you mean the cardboard tubes will soften up. Your piers will be of concrete and shouldn't soften at all.

   I'm not understanding another part of your response. If the piers are in a sealed crawlspace, how will they provide a route for migration of animals? How close to the outside wall will the nearest pier be? Or, will it be embedded as part of a wall? Are you installing a cement floor or leaving bare earth?

   I don't see how moisture will be a problem unless you have a high water table and the piers sit in water soaked earth. But, if that's the case, support of the building might be compromised meaning you'll have larger problems than migration of moisture.

    Griff

1. 
   brownbagg | Jul 25, 2006 07:43pm | #4

   we call them sonic tubes and termites love the carboard.

2. 
   Knightdiamond | Jul 26, 2006 04:37am | #16

   Hey Griff,

   I don't have any of the problems your referred to.  Sam had a good answer. Just remove'em. Which is what I'll do if  I use them. (I probably won't) The distance is a good ways. 11 ft. But I do not want to give anything to the little bas*#&%s. The job site is in N. Tn and Brutha it gets humid! (I was working in an attic last week when it was 97 deg and high humidity. I was dyin!) So moisture is a problem. I think I got an answer but I saw the tubes on the "boob tube" and thought I'd ask. I don't think they are the answer.

   Thanks!!! Man, I love this site!

                                                         KD.

   BTW- My exhaust fan job is going fine. Had to cut a little more DW that I planned but hey, thats why they got mud & tape!!

2. 
   SamT | Jul 25, 2006 08:20pm | #5

   Length + 18" or less: Before installation, split the Sono-Tube and strap with HD nylon wire ties <= 6" OC.

   18" - 36": Strap bottom 18" with nylon pallet straps <= 6" OC. Top 18" as above. Or doubled Wire Ties.

   End straps are always 1" from ends.

   Over 3', it's easier to cut the tube after the pour.

   If you're doing 20 -30 a day for a while use Screw and Slot hose clamps with different 'OC's

   SamT
3. 
   Howard_Burt | Jul 25, 2006 08:30pm | #6

   KD,

   Here's some info from Sonotube:

    

   Sonotube Builder's Tube^¯

   Perfect for decks and stub piers, these versatile and easy to use tubes are perfect for the do-it-yourselfer working on projects like:

   - Pilings for homes and decks
   - Backyard play areas
   - Fences
   - Mailboxes and lamps
   - Gardens

   These extra-strong tubes are made of multiple layers of high quality fiber, spiral wound and laminated with a heavy-duty adhesive. A special coating resists moisture and facilitates even curing.

   Builder's tubes are designed for below-grade use, but may be poured to three feet above the ground line. They are not designed to be stripped. No bracing is needed unless used two feet above ground line. Even then, bracing requirements are minimal.

4. 
   dieselpig | Jul 25, 2006 08:43pm | #7

   Or use plastic corrogated drain pipe.  It works well and is ribbed which helps somewhat with frost uplift. 

   View Image
1. 
   JohnT8 | Jul 26, 2006 12:45am | #8

   Didn't Mike Smith have a plastic version of the sonotubes (that looked like corrugated drain pipe with a flared end)?

    jt8

   "A tree is known by its fruit; a man by his deeds. A good deed is never lost; he who sows courtesy reaps friendship, and he who plants kindness gathers love."  -- Saint Basil

1. 
   dieselpig | Jul 26, 2006 12:54am | #9

   He may have John.  In the garage, you mean?  I'd have to look at it again.

   EDIT: Funny thing about the corrugated pipe... there's two schools of thought.  One say that the ribs help resist upward thrust of frost.  The other says that smooth is better as it doesn't give the frost/frozen earth anything to latch on to.  How's that for doing my part to confuse the situation.  :)

   View Image

   Edited 7/25/2006 5:56 pm ET by dieselpig

1. 
   kgregor4 | Jul 26, 2006 12:55am | #10

   http://bigfootsystems.com/

1. 
   dieselpig | Jul 26, 2006 12:57am | #11

   That's a good product too.  I've used them on several jobs where they're speced out.  PIA if you're hand digging, but not so bad if there's a machine around.View Image

2. 
   JohnT8 | Jul 26, 2006 12:58am | #12

   Maybe that is what he was using.  Just plastic on the bottom, not the column portion.

    jt8

   "A tree is known by its fruit; a man by his deeds. A good deed is never lost; he who sows courtesy reaps friendship, and he who plants kindness gathers love."  -- Saint Basil

2. 
   SamT | Jul 26, 2006 02:46am | #13

   Ribs below frost and on July 4th.

   Smooth from frost line up and smoothies at the beach.SamT

1. 
   dieselpig | Jul 26, 2006 02:49am | #14

   I don't get it.... but it sure sounds nice.  :)View Image

2. 
   NCtim | Jul 26, 2006 02:57am | #15

   I reckon we'll see you at the beach! After BBQ.