Begining in Feb or march and running into the end of July, we’ll be building a custom home and could use one or two tooled up carps, perhaps a jr carp in training, and a laborer who wants to learn carpentry.
Our philosophy is summed up as production-oriented high quality. We give a lot of bang for the buck, but we are first and foremost custom building. We also do most jobs typically subbed out from foundation through finish. This is an ideal job to learn quality construction and an inexperienced go-getter would be paired with a carp who’s good at mentoring/teaching.
You’ve got to be reliable, clean cut, a quick learner, a good self learner, high energy or at least fast at what you do, tooled up or have a desire to get tooled up, easy to work with and have a truck with 8′ bed. edit: or short bed and an extra tie down strap 😉
Full carps are expected to have anything they’ll need from foundation through finish and have a large selection of quality tools to maximize productivity and quality.
Carps in training are expected to have everything typically found in a toolbelt, a circ saw, sawzall, miter and table saw, cordless drill, 4′ and 6′ levels, and framing gun. We pay more if you’re more fully tooled up and everyone will be expected to pick up small tools as needed.
A laborer who wants to learn construction will be expected to have basic hand tools, tool belt and be willing to pick up basic small tools as needed. We aren’t looking for a guy who wants to spend a lifetime as a laborer, but wants to be on the fast track as far as learning carpentery goes.
We’ll hire on an easy come-easy go basis. It’s easy to get invited to the job site, but it’s equally easy to be asked to go if it isn’t going to work out. We’re easy going, but don’t have time for guys who are slow, accident prone, or who don’t pick things up quickly.
Cheers!
PS You’ll want to reply to this message and not email me or the email will get nabbed by my junk mail filter.
Beer was created so carpenters wouldn’t rule the world.
Edited 12/14/2007 4:45 pm ET by IdahoDon
Replies
Don, haven't hired on to a crew in a long time so take this for what it's worth.
Your tool needs for these employees seems a bit strong.
A Great Place for Information, Comraderie, and a Sucker Punch.
Remodeling Contractor just outside the Glass City.
http://www.quittintime.com/
I agree with Calvin, Don. But lets be clear are you looking for subs or employees? If subs I think you are okay, employees a bit strong on the tool requirements you as the employer should be providing major tools. When you say a carpenter needs everything from foundation up do you want him to have concrete forms too? By your standard I would barely make asst carp. Though I do have the extended cab 8' bed GMC pick up with cap (was hard to find I did not want 4wheel drive).By the way who's buying the nails?Wally, Boise IdahoOLD IDAHO SAYINGIT ONLY TAKES A PICKUP AND A BLACK LAB TO BE A CONTRACTOR IN IDAHO.
If subs I think you are okay, employees a bit strong on the tool requirements you as the employer should be providing major tools. When you say a carpenter needs everything from foundation up do you want him to have concrete forms too?
There are parts we can sub, but we're simply looking for good guys who can work without having their hands held.
It's an ICF house so the only foundation tools are shovel, level, pruning saw to cut styrofoam. *chuckle*
Beer was created so carpenters wouldn't rule the world.
DonI am guessing you are in Boise why are you going all the way to Driggs, is this spec or custom? Would love to go but there is more then enough work in the Treasure Valley, hell I don't even need to leave Boise, never mind that I seldom leave the North and East end.Beside that my wife would divorce me and I DO NOT have a black lab, an arridale yes, no Lab.Still think high on the tool requirement, but let us know who comes knocking.Wally
We've also been fortunate to be in the north end remodeling niche. Never a shortage of work, but we have a great client with a great project so it will make the drive worth while.
What company name do you go by? I have a Trout Construction sign, but rarely put it up and my partner is the sole proprieter of Allen Construction. His current project is the lifted house w/new basement on the corner of 16th and Altoris.
Cheers
PS I noticed in Boise it's less common for carpenters to be fully tooled up than what I'm used to, although some of the best guys I've worked with have the goods and have either been small contractors in the past or are currently and we use them between their other projects.
Beer was created so carpenters wouldn't rule the world.
I am registered and insured under my name as a sole propieter. I have a name I use for peridocials and mailiing but have not listed it as a DBA so for now I keep it simple. Am not in the yellow pages all my work comes by word of mouth. I have driven past the 16 and Alturas house we have good friends on the next block down between Brumback and Eastman on 16th.WallyP S As I said you just need a..... well you get my implication.
P S As I said you just need a..... well you get my implication.
*chuckle*
In much of Wyoming it was even worse--no building codes or licensing requirements.
Beer was created so carpenters wouldn't rule the world.
In much of Wyoming it was even worse--no building codes or licensing requirements. DonDon't know if it has change but heard the same of Texas. Is that project 15th and Al or 16th?
I drive down 15th every day and there is a lifted house there also that I may have been getting confused with.Wally
Edited 12/17/2007 11:11 am ET by wallyo
Is that project 15th and Al or 16th?
16th.
Beer was created so carpenters wouldn't rule the world.
Your tool needs for these employees seems a bit strong.
What's typical in various locations and regions varies quite a bit, but those are essentially the tool standards I've been accustomed to in Colorado, Wyoming and now Idaho. A guy doesn't have to bring every tool every day, but they have to have access to them.
While I'm sure the average crew isn't set up like that, we're not shooting for average guys. I know of dozens of solo carps who fit the bill, some of which might make the drive, but there are guys like that all over the west.
In the Driggs area there are also dozens of guys who would work out but it's a matter of getting their attention before they commit to other custom builders in that part of Idaho, or just over the hill in Wyoming.
Happy holidays
Beer was created so carpenters wouldn't rule the world.
Edited 12/14/2007 10:10 am ET by IdahoDon
I agree with what was just posted.
Tool requirements seem high.
I have all that and more , but you would be paying me to rent them on a daily basis if I broke them out on your job.
Rent is not part of wages either.
Good Luck , it actually sounds like a good project to learn how others do things.
Good Luck , it actually sounds like a good project to learn how others do things.
In a way I miss this type of building. It's where I started as a full time carpenter and was the perfect place to learn good construction since there were high quality carpenters doing neat things in every part of the house.
I hate to stereotype carpenters since I'm glad to see a good one no matter what their background, but the guys I enjoy working with are small contractors who enjoy working T&M once in a while to fill gaps, or who are simply tired of having to work for clients. We've also had great finish carps who teach during the year and drive nails in the summer.
Beer was created so carpenters wouldn't rule the world.
I am curious about the need of 8' bed truck. I have driven either short box crew cabs or small pickups.
I haven't owned a 8'bed truck since about 1978. (well unless you count my 12' box van , or my 1 ton flatbed and at the cost of gas it would take me a months pay to get there in those) Why does what the carp drive matter?
They can't get your Goat if you don't tell them where it is hidden.
Why does what the carp drive matter?
We expect the guys to be able to work independantly on their portion, which often intails a trip to the lumber yard on the way to or from work. We'll have engineered lumber packages delivered, but there are always times when we're money ahead by hand selecting other framing materials.
A pet pieve of mine are carpenters with work trucks that can't get dusty, haul lumber, or run reliably, not that a work truck has to be fancy. The bag of hand planes in the cab of my old '85 F250 are worth more than the truck itself, but it's always reliable and can be loaded to the gills. I litterally gave away my last work truck, an '85 3/4 ton GMC since they sell for next to nothing, so I'm pretty sure just about anyone can afford one.
Basically, a work truck is the only tool that will be used on every job, is essential for transporting the tools we expect, and makes life easier if everyone on a crew has one.
Happy Holidays!
Beer was created so carpenters wouldn't rule the world.
Damn. If you'd caught me about 8 years ago...
Tools, yes,
work like a dog
take orders without question
ravenous for learning new skills
desire quality
conscientious
drug free (but I'll never rule the world!)
Could be there in 24 hours ready for work
Up Teton pass on Tele skiis or snowboard on my off time.
NOW:
Self employed remodeler/builder learning something every day. Married, 4 year old daughter, house, truck and a car... etc
I know guys like you are out there! *chuckle*
One of the most rewarding parts of this type of building and this type of crew is working with high caliber guys.
Beer was created so carpenters wouldn't rule the world.
I would just about come up there and help for free. I have always wanted to do an ICF house. There is only one here in Nac. that I know of and I saw it after it was built.Do me a favor and post pics when you build it.Where there's a will, there are 500 relatives
Like others, i as well wonder if you are looking for subs or employees. If you are looking for employees here in southern oregon an ad like yours would yield approx. zero responses. Laborers dont have tools, Carps in training dont have framing guns and table saws, hell, as a contractor i dont even have a truck with an 8' bed. I sure wish that was the labor pool i was pulling from. Good Luck, sounds like someone could learn a lot from you and your crew.
I think your tool requirements are fine. Guys who are serious about carpentry should have that stuff.
I wouldn't make the cut though. 6' truck bed. We get plywood delivered ;-)
I wouldn't make the cut though. 6' truck bed. We get plywood delivered ;-)
Shoot. The 8' bed might be a sign I'm on the way to being an old foggie. Growing up in rural Wyoming we used to make fun of anything but 8' beds on work trucks, but with the explosion of smaller rigs, they are probably more popular. A smaller bed really would work as well.
:-)
Beer was created so carpenters wouldn't rule the world.
I'm out...
I got a 9' bed...
Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming<!----><!----><!---->
WOW!!! What a Ride!Forget the primal scream, just ROAR!!!
ya, and I bet yer toes still hang over the edge.
right to the ankles...
Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming<!----><!----><!---->
WOW!!! What a Ride!Forget the primal scream, just ROAR!!!
Several of our guys drive cars. I wish we get them to drive a truck at all!
Have you advertised over in Jackson WY? Many of the guys I climbed with there and the guides/instructors were carpenters between climbs. I don't know what quality levels they had but they were good people.
you tring to get this thread moved to the tavern???
Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming
WOW!!! What a Ride!
Forget the primal scream, just ROAR!!!
Good point I will pull it.
They can't get your Goat if you don't tell them where it is hidden.
Let me be Blunt!
What is the pay?
1099 at the end of the year?
is that total or is the full tool up and truck rental seperate???
Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming<!----><!----><!---->
WOW!!! What a Ride!Forget the primal scream, just ROAR!!!
Looking for the Total Package!
rental doesn't get 1099'd....
two columns...
Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming<!----><!----><!---->
WOW!!! What a Ride!Forget the primal scream, just ROAR!!!
What is the pay?
Depends on how productive you can be. A guy who produces 30% more than another carp is worth at least 30% more in $$.
There aren't but a few carps in all of Boise making $20/hr. as an employee and $15 with zero overtime and no bennies is probably the average, if you can find a crew that isn't laying off workers. Just over the border in Wyo we paid our best laborer $15 with 10 hrs. of OT because he was always on time, a good learner, and played well with others.
Tooled up solo contractors (licensed and insured) we work with on projects in Boise go for $15 to $32/hr.
If we set up a guy to work as an employee for one of our subs it costs us about twice the guys wage, so instead of hiring $12/hr. low-end employees we're much better off with an experienced $25/hr. solo contractor for essentially the same price. Other carps make more based on what they can do.
1099 at the end of the year?
If working as a sub with lic. & ins. and skilled enough to work independantly, yes.
Beer was created so carpenters wouldn't rule the world.
Man those wages sound low. Is gas still under $2/gal or something out there?
Man those wages sound low.
Welcome to Idaho! Trades make about 25% less across the board here in Boise compared to SE Wyoming and NE Colorado. It's great for those wanting to build a house and not so good for carps who are tallented and enjoy building, but can make more money in other professions. It's a tallent drain for sure, and one reason there are so many solo contractors in our area.
Beer was created so carpenters wouldn't rule the world.
So what's a typical hourly billing rate for a fully-qualified solo contractor working on higher-end work, directly for the homeowner, licensed insured all tools, etc.?
Please don't say $35.
a typical hourly billing rate
There's a lot of wiggle room as to what "high end" means and what "typical" means, and this summer new construction tanked so many guys are simply out of business or scraping to get by.
In our niche, the one man contractors in the $25/hr range are usually busy even if they are pretty average, $40/hr. guys are busy only if they're really good, and $50/hr. guys have to be at the top of their game with good reputations to stay fully booked.
Average guys at $40 are working hit/mis with large gaps in the schedule.
As with any generalization, there are niches within niches that pay better and some pay worse.
One of the best all around finish carps I've ever worked with, doing top of the line work for a top of the line finish crew on the most expensive houses in the valley is happy with $16 as a sub. Go figure.
Did I mention we have a plumber who will work for $10/hr. as a sub to pay bills since business is so bad?
Happy holidays
Beer was created so carpenters wouldn't rule the world.
So if you find a good carp subcontractor with what you want in tools for $25.00 that works for you . Out of curiosity what do you bill him out at to the client?
They can't get your Goat if you don't tell them where it is hidden.
Don,
Here is a tall ent.
View Image
I don't have any idea what kind of talents he has, though.
;o)
I would rather try to be kind, and fail miserably, than not care enough to try in the first place.
Wonder what he costs a board foot?
Beer was created so carpenters wouldn't rule the world.
What he uses to stand on, and locomote himself with, gives a new meaning to the term board feet.;o)
I would rather try to be kind, and fail miserably, than not care enough to try in the first place.
I gotta ask. What exactly is a solo contractor, and how does he or she differ from a direct employee.
'Cause if it is a scam to avoid the employer frfom having to pay FICA and cover with WC, but the "solo contractor" is being directed as to how to work, when to start, when to quit, etc., it smells fishy to me.
It would also smell fishy to an auditor.
But I am in New York. Things in Idaho might be different. I don't see how a "solo contractor" could work in a framing crew, trim crew, or any other type of carpenter crew, that has a "lead," and then "followers." And still meet the test.
Gene,
I am not an expert in this by any means, but having done work (software) as both a contractor and an employee, I've read up on this before--definitely not an exact science. The IRS website states in several places that the facts of the individual case are what determine contractor vs. employee status.
http://www.irs.gov/businesses/small/article/0,,id=115041,00.html
My interpretation of the IRS website: the fact that the person is required to have his/her own tooling; is being contracted for a specific, short-term project; and is expected to work with a minimum of direction speaks in favor of being an independent contractor (solo contractor). Being paid an hourly rate and required to show up during specific times could be used in favor of employee status, but the facts that Don works on a time & materials contract and that working alternative hours (i.e., at night) is probably not going to be viable until at least June would tend to offset this.
It might be that the strength of the unions in New York has begotten more stringent requirements on this issue.
Do you feel that being a short-term employee is a more desirable arrangement than being an independent contractor? While there is somewhat more risk, for me, working as a contractor was considerably better financially--I had much more control over income and expenses and, thus, taxes.
Kathleen
What exactly is a solo contractor
Come on Gene, you know good and well there are hundreds of one-man-bands in any community. You're trying to tell me if I hire four of them to work on 4 different tasks that somehow makes them anything but a subcontractor? There are significant advantages to working as a solo contractor with no employees, we talk about that all the time here at BT.
I don't see how a "solo contractor" could work in a framing crew, trim crew, or any other type of carpenter crew, that has a "lead," and then "followers."
Basically, you've missed the boat. I've specified that there are guys we might hire as employees and treat them as such and guys who would be hired as subcontractors and be treated as such. If I hire a solo contractor, he better be able to work independantly. I don't know where you get the idea I want guys who need their hand held like a typical employee would. Heck if anything I treat employees more like subcontractors.
As for being able to specify when a subcontractor will work, there is no way I'd allow subs to work any hours other than when we want them to. For security reasons alone, that's just not going to happen. On a remodel there's definitely no reason a sub should be in a client's house other than the times we've arranged.
As for how they work, that's up to them unless they are obviously going down the wrong path. If I hire a guy to frame a roof and it's the obviously the wrong pitch, there is nobody here, at the IRS, or anywhere else that I'm going to listen to if they think it's wrong to put my foot down.
I can be as specific as need be with subs to have the job end up as planned and managing subs in this way isn't uncommon by any means. Custom buildiing, especially in a well detailed project, just doesn't happen by letting subs do as they please and not check on them until they're finished. That's not realistic and poor project managment in this situation. Track homes, sure; cookie cutter McMansions, sure; true custom home, no way. Let a run of the mill HVAC guy loose on an extensive remodel without keeping an eye out to help him make good decisions and you'll essentially get a mess.
Happy Holidays
Beer was created so carpenters wouldn't rule the world.
Don, I'd run that same type ad in Craigslist in any area that you think you can pull a carpenter from.
Others have mentioned that the tool requirements are steep but I don't think you are asking too much. I find that if I ask for the moon, I get it.
I've hired guys that are coming off failed framing businesses and they had as much or more tools than me! On one job, our generator blew up and this new guy went home and came back with a generator faster than I could get there to bring them a backup generator!
An ad written the way you have laid it out separates the casual transient framers from the serious guys that intend to get into business for themselves. It's a good strategy for finding a motivated summer worker but they typically are the kind of guys that leave you as soon as they learn enough to compete with you.
It's a good strategy. Quite often, you'll find guy that thinks he's tooled up but he'll lack most of the more expensive stuff but be a decent hand anyways.
I've hired on with full tooling at least twice in my career. Back in the early 80's coming off my first run at business I hired on with a guy and part of my sales pitch to him was that I was fully tooled....and I was.
If you don't ask, you usually won't get it.
Bob's next test date: 12/10/07
It's a good strategy for finding a motivated summer worker but they typically are the kind of guys that leave you as soon as they learn enough to compete with you.
As strange as this sounds, I enjoy training guys until they feel going on our their own is an option, and more than once I've encouraged them do just that and either grow into a new career, or get it out of their system and enjoy working as an employee.
In the area of S Wyoming and N Colorado where I've spent a few years, being an hourly employee is a ligitamit career option for carpenters of all skill levels. Guys who enjoy the craftmenship don't always enjoy the business side of construction and the wages aren't bad.
On a practical level, the guys who might go out on their own like to make decisions and be in charge. It's a shame to not put that to use, so it seems to work well to give them ownership of a section of a larger project and hold them accountable for the results, while standing back enough to help if need be, but not let details slip through the cracks. It fits their personalities, provides more motivation and if they do good is a benefit for everyone involved.
I don't know that any of the guys working in the Driggs/Jackson area would be interested in working in Boise, so as long as we get along until July it's win-win.
Happy Holidays
Beer was created so carpenters wouldn't rule the world.
I only recently started visiting this board, but it might produce some leads--several people on it from the IF/Rexburg area. None sound like they're in construction, but never know.... http://www.city-data.com/forum/idaho/
It's easy to see why you have such a backlog of work!! :-)
Kathleen
It's easy to see why you have such a backlog of work!! :-)
You're too nice. ;-)
Recently, an attorney working for developers in Jackson passed on that the construction rush in Driggs is expected to slow down considerably through next year so it's good for the labor pool.
~D
Beer was created so carpenters wouldn't rule the world.
I wish I had had an opportunity like this a few years ago. Whoever you end up hiring will be very fortunate.
This is the kind of job a single guy should cross the country for - and to Idaho, no less!
Good luck!
This is the kind of job a single guy should cross the country for - and to Idaho, no less!
Did I mention world class fly fishing and this view from the jobsite?
View Image
Beer was created so carpenters wouldn't rule the world.
Edited 12/15/2007 4:28 pm ET by IdahoDon
Whats that white stuff covering the hills? Place a quarter on the deck and if it gets covered is it time to roll up?
They can't get your Goat if you don't tell them where it is hidden.
I remember fly-fishing in Colorado, near Breckenridge. We crawled my Dodge RAM 3500 4WD up the mountain over some really big rocks. Should of had a Jeep. The tires held. The streams were small, and the fishing was worth a million.
Idaho - one of the top ten places to rest my head.
If I had the time I would like to work with your crew, but I'm booked well into the summer. Of course, outside work that time of year can be a real crpshoot. I'll be doing about 10,000 feet of "inside" trim by that time.
Let me know if you need some local refs, I know some good guys that might be looking since things are slowing down here. The word is the big money will keep rolling for awhile.
By the way that view is the same view out my back door!
give a holler when you get here and would like to treat you to a milkshake at the Corner Drug. You have been helpful to my questions in the past.
Aaron
give a holler when you get here and would like to treat you to a milkshake at the Corner Drug. You have been helpful to my questions in the past.
You have a deal!
You don't happen to know of someone who does excavation part time, perhaps retired? We'll layout the foundation and handle managing the footer grade--just need an operator and backhoe. I'm looking for a deal on dirt work, otherwise it makes more sense to simply rent the equipment.
Cheers
Beer was created so carpenters wouldn't rule the world.
Not very many part-time excavators here, and they're all pretty busy. Here are some names of guys advertising in the local paper. I know most of them on a first name basis. (advantage small town Idaho) No deals that I know of since they all have been going full throttle for a couple years. That time of year, someone may be hungry though...
Earthworks Jeremy 313-4844
Sutton Greg 313-DIRT
Green Scott 313-5951
Action Brandon 313-4225
Nathan Clayton 317-3168
There are several more if interested
I subbed out my initial excavation but he sold out and left the state and me waiting for backfill so I bought an older backhoe and did it myself. (Sorry, but my tractor is not dependable for something I would loan or rent out)
It just hit me that you've been working on your own house. It would be fun to see the project in person.
Did you plumb your own radiant system or sub it out? I'd be intersted in any recommendations you might have for the subs you've used and feel free to email me at [email protected] and I'll buy lunch.
Happy holidays
Beer was created so carpenters wouldn't rule the world.
I am in fact working on my own house albeit slowly. Will be starting tile work shortly.
I did my own radiant system with input from my wife's cousin (local plumber who has been Wirsbo trained) He did the boiler install and handled anything technical, and the system works quite well. It has been running for about two months now.
Driggs Plumbing 354-2562
There are a couple of other local radiant guys also, but I have no connections/knowledge with them. The local paper (Teton Valley News) does a good Marketplace section for local builders if you need more names/phone numbers.
Let me know when you are around for that milkshake
Aaron
[email protected]
Don,
I came across this thread while wandering around BT for the first time in several months.
I assume you found the help you were looking for weeks ago, but I just have to respond anyway.
I am a DIY homeowner with a subscription to 4 or 5 home improvement mags (including FH), a dozen in-progress projects at my own house and a nagging urge to take a leave from my FT desk job to run off and be a paid carpenter from time to time.
I have all the tools you mentioned except the sawzall and framing nailer, though my table saw is a bench model and my 4x4 pickup is a Ford Ranger and I don't know how long the bed is. I haul lumber/sheetrock/foamboard insulation/plywood with the tailgate open and material strapped in.
I have re-roofed my garage (including replace decking), hung gutters, built a closet, replaced cabinetry, run a Bobcat (demolish old cement steps), helped frame, roof and sheetrock several Habitat houses in our area, helped my hired carpenter (I know when a job is beyond me) roof my house and put in skylights, and volunteer every year at my regional church camp's Work Week, where I have rebuilt a showerhouse floor from the ground up and done more roofing. And lots of other stuff. I bought my first old house when I was 23 (31 years ago) and have been acquiring tools and skills and working on houses ever since.
Well, I have wasted enough of your time (if you even see this...) Though I would not be able to travel to Idaho and work for you, I thank you for the opportunity to ramble on and daydream a little.
Janell Cole
BIsmarck, ND
"Finding help" in construction can be somewhat of an oddity on many levels. While I'll put out feelers well in advance of the need, and advertise more as things get closer, it's really a #### shoot until they actually walk on the job and start work. I don't get too excited about someone's blood oathe to start work on a certain day since there's a 25% chance they won't make it for some reason. That's just construction.
After the flakey types are weeded out and we're talking about guys we've actually worked with a bit, it's much easier to rely on someone showing up when they say.
There's really no way to know if someone is going to work out without them actually coming to work. Some one with a great deal of experience might be accident prone, have poor judgment, be slow as smell, be addicted to any number of things, have a terrible work ethic, or a rotten leg just days away from being amputated (that's not made up!).
Someone else with no experience might be a quick learner, very reliable, good company and a very good hire as more than a laborer, but not really a carpenter.
Just about anyone with your enthusiam would be welcomed to show up. On the down side, if it's obvious that it's not going to work out, a person might be asked to leave after one day, or sometimes one hour. I've seen guys walk onto a job, get pointed towards a simple task, almost injure themselves using poor judgement and be asked to leave in less than 5 minutes. In fact one new hire showed up drunk and never made it on the clock.
I've known many carpenters who had "real jobs" and used carpentry as a stress break or change of pace from their normal jobs.
Cheers
Beer was created so carpenters wouldn't rule the world.
Don
In fact one new hire showed up drunk and never made it on the clock.
I was having a discussion about this the other day with my wife. What do you do when someone shows up drunk? One of my wife's assistant managers had a young kid(17 or 18) show up high as a kite and she sent him home.
What would happen if that kid or that drunk that you referred to got into a serious accident leaving the place and injured someone bad? I know its not your obligation to take the guys keys away from him but can you imagine with the right lawyer the injured party would have some ground to stand on if they went after you(the company) in a law suit? And since when did you have to have solid ground to stand on to move forward with a law suit!
I told my wife, and I don't know if I'm right or not on this, but if I was put into the situation with the kid coming into work high I'd tell him that I'm not letting him drive home, I will call his parents or the cops for a ride, which one do you want me to call? I just wonder if you wouldn't have some obligation to prevent the duffus that comes to work high or drunk from driving off? Not sure but in this society where someone is looking to sue at the drop of a hat I'd have to give it some serious thought.
Just curious
Doug
While I don't know what, if any, liability I'd have to turning them away, I do know for a fact that if he isn't allowed to stay on the jobsite that nothing further will happen to persons or property under my direct control. If it's so bad that a "reasonable person" would think the guy was a danger to others I'd suggest he call someone to get him, and I'd have to call the police to cover my buttt if he staggered to his vehicle and drove off in a lazy s pattern.
Short of a breath or blood test, there's little that I can determine as to whether he's legally drunk so I wouldn't claim he's drunk, he just wasn't functioning up to snuff since the imparment might be drugs, mental issue or even an allergic reaction or other medical issue.
What I would worry about the most is the 1st guy getting ticked off and doing something stupid to get back at me. While some would have him come back when he's sober, I'm a one-strike-and-your-out kind of guy so they know when they are asked to leave it's over and they have a harder time dealing with it. The advantage to a hard nose approach is the other guys keep their drinking under control.
I took over a crew of drunks with a history of problems for many years and simply had to say if they show up drunk once they are out and the problem was solved. Imagine that. *chuckle*
Beer was created so carpenters wouldn't rule the world.
BTW, our start date has been moved forward a bit because of the near record snow levels.
Beer was created so carpenters wouldn't rule the world.