Hello all-
At our company we have a training program for our apprentice carpenters. Perhaps some of you who are regulars to breaktime will recall my previous posting about lasers and plumb bobs.
The problem is, we are running out of ideas for the classes. Does anyone have any bright ideas? We have covered a lot of topics: Squares and their uses, Plumb Level & Square, Blueprint Reading, Using a Table Saw, Crown Moulding, Routers, Sharpening, Hanging Doors.
I’ve got faith that the folks here at breaktime can point out some more that we haven’t thought of yet.
Replies
Stairs. That one should take awhile.
Another good one is a hands on project, build a shed with a pile of lumber provided. Just enough lumber to do the job. One wrong cut and project over, YOU FAIL WOODBUTCHER. :)
I like the stair idea, anyone calling themselves a carpenter ought to know how to lay out and build a simple set of steps. But, I know some carps that cant do it!
Doug
I know a ton of carpenters who can't build stairs. I get probably 4 calls a month from carpenters to build them a set ready for carpet. Nothing special. For that fact neither am I.
I went and put a set in for a guy who had been shot down twice by the local BI for odd riser heights.
Last set I got called in to do was two weeks ago, the lead guy went through and measured all my risers and said "tear them out, the top riser is an inch off."
I told him about a thing called finished floor which was ceramic tile with 1/2" durarock. Which adds up to the inch that was supposedly missing. And that was the last complaint he had.
He actually was suprised how solid they were without a wall on either side. Amazing what glue and staples through the riser into the back of the tread does
I really enjoy building stairs, they can be mentally challenging. But the finished product is well worth it.
I owe the man who took the time to explain the process to me alot. It's a skill that I won't forget.
Hey Doug, I am with you. Stairs are a mutha. I once did a set (and I am a rookie) that set on an off camber driveway. Thank god for a transit and "the book"! But I got it. (Without shims too!) Your recomendation is right on time.
KD
Not glamorous but how about something like: "Organizing and planning your work"? I had a helper last year who had gone through the local apprentice program and he knew the trade well but his work habits and organization were just horrifying.
I DONE THAT!!!!
Boss in ME bought exactly enuf for a shed...
He wanted the walls 24 O.C. and the roof 16...
got really pissed when I was 3 2x6s short...
didn't last long there...
Namaste
"The truth, when told does nothing but bolster a mans character." -Big Cal Stew 2006
"There are 2 kinds of people in the world, those who divide the world into 2 kinds of people and everyone else" -Gloria Steinham
"The shrub administration is a bunch of Focking CrIminals" -Me
Well lemme tell ya li'l cowpoke...
when a snake falls in love with the spaghetti, it's time to buy a new hat... - Scott Adams
I may not want to admit it but I'm a fool for your stockings I believe... ZZ-Top
It used to be a union carpenter test here, not sure if it still is. You were timed on building a 10x12 shed, with a given pile of lumber. And you might be up against 60 other carpenters in your region for the best time as well as using the lumber right.
Funny thing is that was the most lumber I seen used on a union job, usually it was steel studs and cement block. No thanks.
You showed your old boss, you are a big time contractor guy now. :)
if the mass of idiots I have worked for can do it THIS idiot should be able to do it...
Namaste
"The truth, when told does nothing but bolster a mans character." -Big Cal Stew 2006
"There are 2 kinds of people in the world, those who divide the world into 2 kinds of people and everyone else" -Gloria Steinham
"The shrub administration is a bunch of Focking CrIminals" -Me
Well lemme tell ya li'l cowpoke...
when a snake falls in love with the spaghetti, it's time to buy a new hat... - Scott Adams
I may not want to admit it but I'm a fool for your stockings I believe... ZZ-Top
I hear you on that one.
I have also worked for some winners that seemed to be able to make it work.
How about math related items. 3,4,5. Squaring by diagonal. Finding unknown values by ratio and proportion (I think that's what it's called). Trig(?).
If it wasn’t for the Bank Payments,
Interest, Taxes, Wages, and Fuel Costs,
I wouldn’t have to charge you!!
I think you should get into arches and tangents. Anything round or elliptical.
And grade on a curve.
The guys that can do the tricky circular stuff are the best.
I've given tours of our truss plant to a few building trades classes.
One time we made about 20 copies of some shop drawings and a layout to all of the students.
Matching something like that up with a set of plans might be interesting.
Hi Jmadsen
I teach Carpentry Apprentices at a local community college. If I had a few minutes to spare sometime soon, I might be able to dig out some info on the Province of Ontario Curriculum if you are interested
Have a good day
Cliffy
Safety, First-Aid & CPR!
I could keep the class busy for many days!
Always a good thing to have somebody on the job site that knows some or all of the above!
You hit on good one there. Fall protection also. Sounds kind of hokey to someone that's only interested in the fun stuff. But it's all part of the working day. It should be anyway.
The funniest thing about this tagline is that by the time you realize it doesn't say anything it's too late for you to stop reading it.
http://www.hay98.com/
PROPER FLASHING....need I say more
This will be a topic in the future. I am scheduled to take an intensive class from Grace pretty soon and will trickle down all that I learned then.
Hardwood floors, base(coping inside corners), door and window trim, roof framing, basic shingle application, proper flashing, and decks(framing and decking).
That would be my list.
What kind of carpenter aprentices are these? Framers, general purpose, generic?
I'm a firm believer in on-the-job training, but realize that many carps don't have the interpersonal skills or desire to do much teaching so your program sounds good.
Carpenters need good basic skills in layout. They should at least see what it takes to go from footer to roof, then the stairs. Construction calculators can save time and reduce mistakes on critical calculations and should be a must have.
Building basic stairs is a good idea.
Carps should also know the basics of how to look something up in the code book. It's not entirely intuitive and is easy for those of us who have used them a while to forget how confusing UBC or IRC can be.
Young carps should also get a taste of cost/benefit decisions that they will, or should, be making on a daily basis. For example, how many minutes max should a carp spend saving a stud full of nails before it's cheaper to scrap it. Show the cost trail of poor quality and how it effects the company.
Basic design proportions are something every carp needs to get a grip on, even if it's just 30 minutes on why 1.6:1 works so well.
Teach them how to learn on their own. Show examples of good and bad reference books and other sources of information. If they need something out of the ordinary who do they talk to? Once they found information on how to do it, show them how to manage risks and ease into a project that they have no past experience actually doing.
Basic personal financial managment is never talked about, but should. How do carpenters plan for the future? Explain basic long-term investing/savings. Show them how easy it is to open a Roth IRA. Go over basic home ownership benefits/costs and how loans are made.
Level of quality is something that seems to allude most carps. They simply have one level of quality that they work at and that's it, despite what the situation calls for. The industry has standards for paint finishes, drywall finishes, etc., yet most carpenters don't have a clue how to define the level of quality they produce or have even a basic understanding of the other trades.
Young carps need to understand the various types of wood they're likely to encounter and what they're appropriately used for.
Wood movement needs to be hammered home since it effects everything we build. Basic skills should include how to guess wood moisture. Use a moisture meter to show how this relates to the real world.
Best of luck with your program.
Cheers
Beer was created so carpenters wouldn't rule the world.
Construction terms.
Concrete formwork.
Roof framing.
Deck framing.
Wall framing.
Construction math.
Architectural drafting.
Workplace safety.
Unequal pitched roofs.
Exterior trim.
Interior trim.
Resilient floors.
Welding.
Ceilings.
Millwork.
Construction fastners.
Those are some of the topics/classes that I enjoyed/endured when I served my apprenticeship. I think our first classes were OSHA and simple math, followed by simple architectural drafting and other basic construction practices. All of the above items are trade practices covered under the Union carpenter trade agreements.
blue
Our Skytrak is for sale. It has 500 hrs on it. We want 50k (you pay the freight) and we'll finance it. Drop me an email; it's a good buy.
Attached is the PDF of the apprenticeship outline for Alberta & here's the web address. http://www.tradesecrets.gov.ab.ca/trades/pdf/trade_course_outlines/002_outline.pdf
We are lucky to have a great program available here. Hope your training goes well.
Building science, and basic engineering principles.
A good carpenter should be able to think like a raindrop (or water moisture) to create a good, weathertight house even when standard details don't quite fit.
And it's an important skill to be able to visualize the forces that a house withstands- shear, compression, tension. Once the forces are understood, it's much easier to find the numbers to use, or to communicate with and engineer about what needs to happen.
zak
"When we build, let us think that we build forever. Let it not be for present delight nor for present use alone." --John Ruskin
"so it goes"
You mentioned hanging doors, don't forget pocket doors. And as with stairs, one has to think about finish floors. Rough opening widths, the need to have everything plumb level and square etc.
With blueprint reading, anybody can learn to read a print in plan view, but it is harder to pick up details if one does not also learn to compare cross sections, elevations, specifications and room finish schedules, door and window schedules etc. to the plan view. All of these give the full picture, each alone only gives a piece of the finished project.
It's helpful to have and understand lumber span tables for different species of framing and decking lumber. They should be familiar with engineered floor trusses, the different kinds, depths, spans, spacing and installation methods. All the Mfg's have literature available that covers this stuff. And don't forget the same for LVL beams and lumber.
They should also have a basic understanding of building codes. Hand rail heights, baluster spacing, tempered glass requirements, egress windows, egress window well req's., codes for stair run and rise, and the list goes on.
how about laying out a set of stairs but....
U shaped with 2 uneven legs....
hardwood on the landing...
carpet upstairs...
bottom step onto rough floor that will recieve laminate flooring, or tile with backer....
make the landing the right size and hieght so the Rises and runs will be equal all the way ...
and make sure there is adequate headroom under the landing
for the basement steps..
and make sure the owners will be able to get a king size mattress and a baby grand piano up the stairs...
Namaste
"The truth, when told does nothing but bolster a mans character." -Big Cal Stew 2006
"There are 2 kinds of people in the world, those who divide the world into 2 kinds of people and everyone else" -Gloria Steinham
"The shrub administration is a bunch of Focking CrIminals" -Me
Well lemme tell ya li'l cowpoke...
when a snake falls in love with the spaghetti, it's time to buy a new hat... - Scott Adams
I may not want to admit it but I'm a fool for your stockings I believe... ZZ-Top
How about one on codes - where to find, how to read and interpret as well as seeing if the blueprints and specs meet them?
" There'll be no living with her now" - Captain Jack Sparrow
how about building ANYTHING....
While the H.O. who knows it at watches and gives advice and asks questions and tries to help..Namaste
"The truth, when told does nothing but bolster a mans character." -Big Cal Stew 2006
"There are 2 kinds of people in the world, those who divide the world into 2 kinds of people and everyone else" -Gloria Steinham
"The shrub administration is a bunch of Focking CrIminals" -Me
Well lemme tell ya li'l cowpoke...
when a snake falls in love with the spaghetti, it's time to buy a new hat... - Scott Adams
I may not want to admit it but I'm a fool for your stockings I believe... ZZ-Top