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Discussion Forum

Carpenter & Helper Wages

BobKovacs | Posted in General Discussion on December 18, 2003 12:50pm

All-

I’m doing a little study/research, and I’m hoping y’all can help.   Please read the entire post before responding.

I’d like to find out what you would have to pay (in bare hourly wages- no insurance, taxes, benefits, etc), if you wanted to hire the two employees described below to perform remodeling work for your company.  I’ll describe what I mean by each job title, to avoid confusion and individual interpretations or what a “carpenter” is.  Please don’t take any offense if the “carpenter” and “helper” titles I’ve created don’t accurately reflect your interpretation of the titles.

1. A Carpenter: Someone capable of being left alone to work, and capable of the following:  remove an existing window and replace with a new unit (including siding,drywall and trim repair), remove 6′ of bearing wall and replace with a header to create a trimmed opening, frame a closet in the corner of a bedroom (including drywall, door/trim, closet rod, etc), demo a bathroom and hang and tape drywall, install new cabinets, medicine cab, etc., hang new kitchen cabs and install laminate countertops.

2. A Helper:  Someone who works with the carpenter, and can do the following: demolish wall finishes, windows, framing, etc., receive and stock materials, go on material runs, clean up behind the crews, nail together a wall if laid out by the carpenter, assist with drywall hanging, painting, etc.

Again, please provide just the base hourly rate, and please tell me where you’re located (referenced to the nearest decent-sized city- Upper Bumblebutt, Arkansas doesn’t help me much…..lol).  If there would be certain other “requirements” to hire these folks such as “the carpenter would require a company truck, tool allowance, and cell phone to hire on at that rate”, please tell me that, but keep it separate from the base rate.

Thanks in advance for the help!

Bob

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  1. Brudoggie | Dec 18, 2003 01:26am | #1

    Bob,

     Carpenter: $15-20/ hr. depending on experience.

    Helper: $10-14/ hr, same.

    Both need transportation, and own hand tools. I supply the rest. The carpenter would have to be around awhile, before I give him one of my trucks.

     No large cities near here. Closest is Green Bay, Wi., and thats 90 mi away.

     Probably not a good statistic for this area, as I pay much better than most here.

     Brudoggie

  2. User avater
    Sphere | Dec 18, 2003 01:32am | #2

    I recently relocated from the Great Smokies nearest large area was Asheville..I was 1 hr. west. a carp. hired as a sub. straight pay..gets a 1099..like you described..with his own tools and truck..wants/needs 35.00-50.00 an hr. Alot of variables..road time one way if the drive meant low lands to highlands.

    a helper would run between 15.00-22.50..it depends on attitude, talent, willingness to become MORE than a helper. A grunt..15.00 and DOWN.

  3. fdampier5 | Dec 18, 2003 01:55am | #3

    Carpenter is $24 to 32 an hour around here, with benefits plus a company truck as a perk after about ten years (or so)  

      Helper, if you want him to show up more than once or twice a week is about $18 to20 an hour but usually without benefits.  Western part of Mpls.  Lake Minnetonka area  (minnesota) 

  4. Piffin | Dec 18, 2003 02:05am | #4

    carp

    $22 - 28

    helper

    $15 - 18 or so

    No real cities here in Maine. Limited labor market due to island commute - MidCoast area has nearly full employment

    .

    Excellence is its own reward!

    1. jacobuilt | Dec 18, 2003 03:53am | #5

      Asheville, NC.Largest town in Western North Carolina. Carpenters $20.00 and Help $15. Seems difficult to hire anyone for less than $15. and not have to babysit. Bobby

    2. andybuildz | Dec 18, 2003 03:55am | #6

      carp....up to $30 an hour

      apprentice.....they pay me $10 an hourthe first week.....if they continue to show up the next month,,,,,$15 an hour to them...My life is my practice!

      http://CLIFFORDRENOVATIONS.COM

      1. HeavyDuty | Dec 18, 2003 08:25am | #15

        apprentice.....they pay me $10 an hourthe first week.....if they continue to show up the next month,,,,,$15 an hour to them...

        Hey Andy, I like that. What happens between the end of the first week and before the beginning of next month?

  5. User avater
    JeffBuck | Dec 18, 2003 03:56am | #7

    Carp ... $15 - $18...

    Helper ...$11 - $14...

    I'm giving you the "advertised" pay rates ... what a guy would be told at the intervies ... not what he's charged out for ... and not what his paycheck says after all the deductions ... taxes and the rest.

    These are decent rates ... some may get higher ... lots probably get lower. Both city and suburbs .... Pittsburgh and surrounding areas.

    Jeff

    Buck Construction   Pittsburgh,PA

         Artistry in Carpentry                

    1. Treetalk | Dec 18, 2003 04:04am | #8

      Carpenters- $18-20

      Helpers- $10-12

      Helpers  usually have only rudimentry tools inc. cordless drill..I supply rest.

      Quotes are in S. WV , rural..lot of hi dollar work at diffrent resorts(  trophy homes) but give me the poorer clients...more respect/better satisfaction and less head games.

      Decent labor shortage/send drywallers!

  6. davidmeiland | Dec 18, 2003 04:46am | #9

    SF Bay Area: carpenter up to $33-35/hr. if s/he's leading the big jobs for the picky clients, $25-28 if they're the #2 player but still quite skilled, $18-22 if they're mid-level and supervised during the day by one of the above. Laborer $10-15, although at $10 they're not worth having. Pro carpenter as a hired gun sub w/ license and insurance, truck & tools, $50-65. Hard to find anyone decent to hire in any of these categories.

    Western Washington, San Juan Island: knock $5 off of everything above except maybe the $10 laborer. Also a tight market for the skilled people. Like someone else said: send help!

    What is it, all the young folks want to be computer jocks or pro snowboarders? No voc ed in the high schools anymore? Not cool to get your hands dirty? Not cool to work at all? Seems like a shortage of folks coming into the trades.

    1. User avater
      artacoma | Dec 18, 2003 06:28am | #10

      I'm $32 an hour and I pay my apprentice $15 ...............Rik...............

    2. migraine | Dec 18, 2003 06:42am | #11

      Ha... Ha...

      I've been wondering this also.  That's what it seems like, at least on the West Coast.  In So Cal, seems like if you own  a nail gun, you're a carpenter.  I haven't figured out the Western Washington part yet.

    3. caribouman | Dec 18, 2003 08:20pm | #25

      Really...?

      I honestly don't know where this is all coming from, you all must be in high demand areas.  I really have to wonder if we are all misleading this guy who asked the initial question...  I'm in Bangor Maine, not far from Piffin, and so far I've been offered two jobs

       1)  Lead man, I supply all power tools, my own hand tools and my truck to the job, no benefits or mileage paid, and lead the crew, for $12 per hour...  or

      2)  Project manager for a very busy company putting up new tracty-type stuff, was told minimum 72 hour week, 84 hour week more common, for $30,000/year.

      A few years ago, down in Portland Maine, I told my apprentice I absolutely would not pay him less than $10/hour.  As a sub down there I worked as low as $16/hour and as high as $23/hour. 

    4. SBerruezo | Dec 19, 2003 09:45am | #37

      I'm 17, and eager to learn the trades.  Any and all.  I have some of my own basic tools, including Skilsaws, drills, stuff for the toolbelt, etc.  But I love tools.  I get between $10-15, occasionally more, but that's only for a couple hour stretches.  That's in Napa, bit over an hour from San Francisco.  I am probably somewhere between a carp and a helper, probably leaning more towards helper. 

      1. davidmeiland | Dec 19, 2003 10:54am | #38

        At 18 or 19 years with 1-2 years experience you should be able to get $15+/hr. all day every day, if you show up reliably and work hard. No being late or hung over. You need to hook up with the good, high end contractors doing the fancy houses. Take a day off (not Monday or Friday) and drive around the nicer neighborhoods looking for jobsites. Walk on and ask for the foreman, introduce yourself and ask for a job. That's the way it works. Napa is booming, there's no shortage of work there, so those guys are hungry for good help.

    5. RWalters | Dec 21, 2003 12:18am | #42

      Living on San Juan Island, I don't think you should be knocking $5 off those rates; and I haven't seen a $10/hr. laborer here in 5-6 yrs.  Even kids out of high school are asking for $12-$15, and if you find a good one, you gladly pay up to $17.  Most "lead-man" carpenters are in that $35-$40 range, with #1's in at $27-$30, #2's $22-$25 and apprentices are $18-$22.  This is all before taxes, L&I, unemployments insurance, employee insurance, overhead, etc.

      Just my two cents,

      Bubba

  7. User avater
    CapnMac | Dec 18, 2003 07:29am | #12

    Be hard to find a stand alone carpenter like that around here.  At those skill levels they are a 1099 sub to construction company, or a construction company themselves.

    1099 sub would be $65-75 hour moonlighting (more now that it's hunting/holiday season); "on clock" would be what ever the bill rate is.

    Per the given definition, probably a $20-25 hour man.  The helper, $12-17 per hour (or, you'd need two at $8 per hour).

    I'm glad I'm no where near Pittsburgh (PA, for wages; or TX, as there are too many &%#^$ chickens) <g>.  I'm in Central Texas, so the rates will be close, if a tad under, those for Austin or Houston, a bit more than in Waco

    Occupational hazard of my occupation not being around (sorry Bubba)
  8. ccal | Dec 18, 2003 07:44am | #13

    It would be difficult to find a carpenter as you describe in this area. In wages a decent all around carpenter would get 15 to 20 per hour and a helper would get fron 8 to 14 . The 8 to 10 an hour guy couldnt be expected to get much done without constant supervision. When I need labor like that I go to the temp labor place and pay 9.50 per hour including taxes and comp.. Im in south Alabama, Mobile.

  9. toast953 | Dec 18, 2003 08:11am | #14

    $20 -$25 per hour for carp,,, $10- $12.50 per hour for helper. Prescott, Arizona. Good Luck on your study/research project. And yes your right, the helper can demolish wall finishes, problem is, that wall finish was not supposed to be touched, breathed on, or looked at. As a good friend of mine is fond of telling me, " Yep, it's the Leaders fault, poor management" hmm I thinks to myself. You all be Safe out there Jim J

  10. Jencar | Dec 18, 2003 08:36am | #16

    My skill level includes the items you mentioned under "Carpenter" and I ask for $20-$25 an hour depending on the income/niceness level of the customer.

    My son falls under the "helper" category, and he gets $10/hr when working with me on a project.

    We're in So Cal.

    Jennifer

    1. ponytl | Dec 18, 2003 09:44am | #17

      Carpenter... if you can tell him what needs to be done... and it be done when you get back better... than you would have done it yourself...  priceless

      a guy who can frame.. keep stuff level & square... do what has to be done without waiting for "someone else to do it... or asking "how ya want to do this"  treats my tools as well as he treats his own...  makes about $20 an hour with me... i also buy his lunch... post his bond... get him out of jail... give him cash at the end of each day for his crack... and talk to him momma ... let him ride around in the truck with me at full pay when we don't have anything to do that day or if we just want to go fishing... he must also be able and willing to drive a tractor... cut grass... stop at yard sales ect...

      helper.... $8 and hour... i pick em up... feed em before we start... can't speak english... feed em lunch.... take em home (never even close to where i picked em up) wants to work the next day ... and never see em again... if however they "act like they are working" and just move'n the same board from one place then back to the place they started... they get put back in the truck taken back to where they were picked up and handed $20... if on the rare chance they do work more than a week they are promoted to foreman (has yet to happen)

  11. Mooney | Dec 18, 2003 12:56pm | #18

    I guess youve read my posts about Arkansas before. Hmm .

    Tim Mooney

  12. alias | Dec 18, 2003 01:16pm | #19

    in long island - 30-35 an hour for a carp

    carp helper w/ min of 5 yrs. exp 15-18 an hour cash depending of task at hand and adeptness that a little high but promotes reliability.......

    "expectations are premeditated resentments"

    r



    Edited 12/18/2003 5:46:19 AM ET by the bear

    1. xMikeSmith | Dec 18, 2003 02:03pm | #20

      w2 employees:  carp..  $16 - $22

      helper  $12  to  $15

      1099 Sub....... $30   -  $35 for carps 

      no 1099 helpersMike Smith   Rhode Island : Design / Build / Repair / Restore

      1. BobKovacs | Dec 18, 2003 02:24pm | #21

        Thanks for all the input so far.  Keep those numbers comin'!!

        Bob

        1. caribouman | Dec 18, 2003 08:43pm | #27

          Hey there,

          I should have replied directly to you.  In the summer of 2002 I lived in Portland Maine, and the break down would be something like this

          Lead man, W-2, supplies power tools, $17/hour

          Carpenter, W-2, if he's lucky, $14/hour

          Apprentice, W-2 at end of year, $10-$12/hour

          A 1099 sub, anywhere from $10/ hour to $23/hour.

          I did a job in Santa Cruz CA during September and October 2003 and was told (by the other carpenter I was working with)

          Carpenter, under the table in green cash, $23/hour

          Lead man, could run a whole site, start to finish, ~35/hour

          Now I live in Bangor Maine, and in case you didn't read my earlier response,

          Lead man, W-2, supplies power tools & truck, no benefits, $12/hour

          1. User avater
            dieselpig | Dec 19, 2003 12:19am | #29

            "Lead man, W-2, supplies power tools & truck, no benefits, $12/hour"

             

            I live just outside of Boston, and I'm sitting here asking myself,"How the heck can anyone even afford to own power tools at $12/hr?"  Maybe we're just lucky around here....supply and demand I guess.

            I own my own little company, but to stay busy I'll do sub-work for some of the local builders.  I'm licensed, registered and insured and will get $45-$55/hr to do the "jack of all trades" gig for them.  They pay it all day long.  I pay my laborer/apprentice $20/hr plus bonuses and my other carpenter $30.  We're all very happy up here.

          2. alias | Dec 19, 2003 02:12am | #31

            i'm stayin' the h$ll outta portland, and bean town lookin' good to me : )"expectations are premeditated resentments"

          3. jpawlikowsky | Dec 19, 2003 01:54am | #30

            Now I live in Bangor Maine, and in case you didn't read my earlier response,

            Lead man, W-2, supplies power tools & truck, no benefits, $12/hour

            You've got to be joking! What about wear and tear on your truck and tools. How about gas money? If you burn up a power tool you worked two or three days for nothin'.

          4. Piffin | Dec 19, 2003 05:27am | #34

            Sounds like somebody wants you to proce yourself first, but that is ridiculous for starters. I'm shaking my poor head over this..

            Excellence is its own reward!

          5. MarkMc | Dec 19, 2003 05:55am | #35

            w2- $22-$32 Carpenter

            w2- $12- $22 Laborer

            Carpenter      1099- $50 - $220 (depends on the task, level of excellence)

            Labor Sub, for a 3- man crew. $50 - $100. Better have those certificates of insurance / W.C. 

            St. Louis.

          6. Hooker | Dec 19, 2003 06:44am | #36

            Hi- new to the forum, thought I would add my piece

            La Crosse, WI and surrounding areas pay rates:

            Carpenters may get $15 to $20 an hour, they supply most tools, sometimes including specialties.  Aren't too many bosses who supply very many benefits (Insurance, trucks, sick/vacation days, etc.) around here.

            Helpers usually are around $8 to $12, but at $12 an hour you had better start "earning your keep"!

            I am 2 years into 1099 self employment and the accepted going rate is around $25 hourly for sub work.

             

            Hook

          7. RWalters | Dec 21, 2003 12:23am | #43

            Don't live in Bangor, Maine anymore.  For $12/hr. I don't see  how you could anyway.

        2. woodguy99 | Dec 18, 2003 09:44pm | #28

          Nantucket, MA

          Lead carp--$40 to $50

          Carp--$30 to $40

          Helper--$15 to $25

          These are all 1099 numbers, not W2's, as that's how everyone I know here works. 

  13. User avater
    G80104 | Dec 18, 2003 05:00pm | #22

          Carpenter   with hand tools & no baggage own transportation $17.00 to start

          top out @ $25.00 paid every friday W2 at year end.

    Laborer / Helper $ 8.50 to start can make up to $15.00 with friday pay & W2

      Denver Co.

  14. Mooney | Dec 18, 2003 07:34pm | #23

    I think some of the guys have noticed , but no one has commented . I will .

    From your post you are asking pricing to hire a ;

    Carpenter

    Drywall Hanger

    Drywall Finisher

    Painter

    Being able to work alone so he would have to have all those tools in each trade you mention. I dont think you have a truck with all that aboard. But, just for funzies, Ill bite .

    Even in Arkansas , anywhere in Arkansas , that man should be running at least 25 per hour even if hes in Po Dunk City. Secondly we can talk about catching a big fish , we both know our odds are low. I dont think you can hire that person unless you are offering year around work. Those kinda men arent sitting at the house .

    Of course you would probably take an electrician and plumber with the above also in one man. And of course you want to pay the going "carpenter rate". You are getting rates on carps , not whats above. The man you describe is worth lots of money if hes good at it all. Hes in heavy demand to any remodeling company big or small. One man like this is very valuble to a new home contractor , or a commercial contractor of any size Ive seen. They can come back in behind multiple crews that built the project and change anything or fix it with out hiring a sub. Chain stores use them on a regular basis to set up their 'lines". A chain store comes to a mall or a town and puts in their stocking system. The men that travel and do this make 100,000 per year in Arkansas, amoung other states. Those men are ready to roll to any state , even climb on a jet to get it done. You just asked for the most expensive tradesmen out there and he doesnt even have a rightful title. Hes one of the biggest misconceptions out there .

    Dont take my post personal . It wasnt meant to hurt any feelings .  Its just facts about what you asked about.

    Tim Mooney



    Edited 12/18/2003 11:59:42 AM ET by Tim Mooney

    1. BobKovacs | Dec 18, 2003 08:05pm | #24

      Tim-

      That's why I posted the "disclaimer" on my use of the titles "carpenter" and "helper".   Let's face it- in remodeling work, most guys who can frame can also hang a door, run trim, hang a few sheets of drywall, and work a paintbrush- they have to, because many remodel jobs aren't big enough to keep a true "carpenter" busy.  I'm not looking for a guy who can tape and finish a whole house- just a few sheets.  Same with the other trades.

      Bob

      1. Mooney | Dec 18, 2003 08:35pm | #26

        You bring up another point that should go along with your post .

        Frenchy made the comment in his thread about no one admitting they do any thing but top notch work . He sells equipment on job sites , so he sees a lot of different contractors work. His mention  was that it doesnt hold up all the time . Sorry French to bring you in here , but you made a very good point to use.

        Most any one who hires work done wants quality and they also want to save money. Human nature. Ive never known any one who has said; This work is not the best and I really think it su#ks, but I am really proud that I got it done cheap ! 

        You are asking about price and wanting work done . Same thing as I mentioned above . Unless the man is capable of quality in all the areas you mentioned , you probably wont be happy . The only way you will get a good price and quality together is to hire a man that can do a whole job otherwise he wont have the experience to bring you a valuble product at a reasonable price.

        You might be making a misconception thinking that every remodleler carpenter does all you mention anyway. I know good carps that do remodeling that hire pros to do the other stuff .

        Quality is expected at any price in remodeling. Most of the time the owner lives there or more to the point ; Both owners live there and must be pleased.

        Tim Mooney

  15. 92588 | Dec 19, 2003 02:42am | #32

    i bill at 45 helper 20 my car mechanic 68. what am i doing wrong. but im busy and turn away more than i take. north new jersey

    1. r_ignacki | Dec 19, 2003 04:07am | #33

      you forgot that the grease monkey stays in his shop,

      none of this running out into the field settin up ladders, in the rain, over/under power lines, getting tools stolen............

  16. kram | Dec 19, 2003 12:56pm | #39

    In North Iowa I'm only able to bill $22 per hour. And yes I'm registered with the state, and insured.  A carp. (w-2) with years and skill may get $15. A helper $10.  I supply all but hand tools. I'm always amazed at what others are able to bill at in other parts of the country.  I realize the costs of living are lower here.

    1. davidmeiland | Dec 19, 2003 06:47pm | #40

      My suspicion has been that, in places where there is a large union construction scene, non-union wages are higher. In the SF Bay area, where the carpenter's union has both residential (tract) and commercial work, non-union guys make about what union guys make, in dollars per hour (usually not as good on the bennies).

      I'm surprised at the lower wage levels a few here have mentioned. Yes, the cost of living is a bit lower some places, but a new truck costs about the same everywhere, and so does a gallon of milk, a Dewalt drill, or a pair of jeans. Housing prices are what seem to vary the most.

  17. reinvent | Dec 19, 2003 07:06pm | #41

    Where are you located? The same carpenter can get upwards of $30 in a fast growing city and maybe only the high teens in a slow rural area.

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