As a carpenter, I know that the carpenters pencil is one of the most important and often used tools. But what I wouldn’t give for one that don’t have to be sharpened every other time I mark a board.
Kip
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Replies
Perhaps a cheap mechanical pencil with a thick lead.
I use cheap ones with fine lead for trim work. For framing I whittle on wood carpenter pencils. Frequently. Sharpen them on a bit of drywall sanding screen. I might just look at what WalMart has in cheapies with thicker lead.
.7 or a .9mm mechanical pencil...
Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming
WOW!!! What a Ride!
Ballpoint pen. Sharpie. Knife blade.
Whenever you are asked if you can do a job, tell'em "Certainly, I can!" Then get busy and find out how to do it. T. Roosevelt
Soft lead in yer pencil?.........Viagra will fix it.
I'm no carpenter but I have noticed some carpenters use mechanical pencils of some flavor. I have one I work around who uses a standard top-click .7 mm mechanical pencil. Of those using mechanical pencils this seems to be a common path.
The other option I have seen used is an architects lead holder. This looks like a thickish pencil that has a set of jaws at the front that grips a standard drawing lead, something like 2mm. These jaws are opened by way of a plunger at the top.
This is a bit more bothersome. IMO, than the mechanical pencils in that the mechanical pencils automatically feeds the lead at a controlled rate using one hand while the lead holder doesn't. This means you have to stop the lead with the other hand else it falls out completely.
As a good point the lead is thicker and can be used inside small holes with less worry about it breaking and the jaws up front are easy to clean should they get gummed up with crud. This is an issue with mechanical pencils as once clogged they are more difficult to set right.
So what's a carpenter's 'keel' ?
If this is a quiz...what do we get for a correct answer???
It's a question, not a quizz. In his excellent carpentry book, Larry Haun refers to a 'pencil and keel'. I just can't tell from the picture what he's referring to. It is used for marking or layout, but what it does and how, I've no idea. The prize is that I get to learn something new, provided someone knows the answer.
big fat wax crayon, for marking stuff that won't wear off,or wash away. great for identifing stuff, lousey for a line - unless your plus or minus factor is a inch. even comes in Preeeeettyyyy colors. so says my daughter.
Pierre,
It's a lumber crayon. Okay the guys gave it away...so I guess I don't get the prize. Used mostly for framing layout or writing really big notes to yourself.
Peace
A mechanical pencil that has:
(1) lead that is 0.7mm or thicker
(2) a retracting tip so you don't accidentally stab yourself with the lead/sleeve (haven't seen one of these in decades, though)
(3) a cushioned point so the lead doesn't break every time you press a little too hard
Add-ons:
(4) A triangular pencil grip in a neon color to keep the pencil from rolling away and make it easy to find
(5) HIGH-POLYMER pencil lead. It is less brittle than regular graphite lead and doesn't smear.
Janet
A 'Keel' is is the heavy composition wax crayon used for general marking on lumber and, sometimes, slabs. never had a lot of use for them but they have their uses. When you need to make a clear but rough mark they do OK.
And here I thought you were gonna tell him it was were you started when you put a boat together...
Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming
WOW!!! What a Ride!
Shhhh... We start giving away correct answers and everyone will want one.
Okay... Sorry... Didn't mean to jepordize our reputation...
that was close...
Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming
WOW!!! What a Ride!
"Keel" is what is used to hold a lumber crayon. I use a wooden one that is about 30 years young. Lowes has them now that are made out of plastic and only cost about $2.
Want to make God laugh? Tell Him you've got plans.
- Anonymous
A keel is the bottom (backbone) of a ship/boat/watercraft. A Keil is a lumber crayon.
Baseboard been VERRRY good to me
Thanks for the spelling. I don't think I have ever seen the word in print. I hear it a lot on job sites but never in print.
learn something new every day.
Our local wood working store sells a cliick type pencil that uses a 2mm lead that might be tough enough. Rockler.com
I personally use the round ones ( I know they roll off ) But I never set them down . i find them easier to sharpen and I start the day with 4 or 5 sharp in one of the small pocket and as they die they get moved to the other side ( in my case it is the left side because im right handed) that usually gets me a while till I can stand stetch and sharpen a bunch at the same time.
In finish work I have used a .7 mech. click and its the way to go --consitant line and the HBlead is hard enough to last and soft enough to mark easily. Mike
Dixon Ticongderoga with HARD lead!
all other pencils are just wannabe crayons!
Mr T
I can't afford to be affordable anymore
I don't care what kind I use...........I just carry a bunch of them cause I'm always losing the damn things.
I like Dixon pencils. They come in different hardness leads, so I use the hard ones which stay sharper and don't have the lead break off as often. For PT lumber, you usually need a slightly softer lead. I use Swanson pencils when I can't find Dixon - which I have to go to a certain hardware store to get.
As far as not being able to find my pencil - yea - that gets on my nerves. There is always about 3 in the bottom of my bag, under all the nails and crap, but here is something that HD really go right. See attached pic... I love this little item that I got for a few bucks. A great little time saver.
Edited 9/25/2004 8:26 am ET by DIRISHINME
A handy keel holder can be made with a pc. of 1/2 copper pipe..about 5'' long, cut a cross with a hacksaw about 1/2'' deep in one end...making 4 fingers...push the keel in from the other end, the 'fingers hold it at a length to mark with, as it gets used push it out more from behind.
I have had em break in my bags all to often, winding up with a lot of little pcs.
A GOOD pencil is a log scribe pencil from Veritas (I think), it is india ink, write on wet lumber it makes a blue ink line, dry wood, it looks like a normal pencil ....pretty cool, but not for finish work, the line is indelible.
Spheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks
Repairs, Remodeling, Restorations.
I sharpen both ends of my pencils. It also helps to identify which pencil belongs to which carpenter. I have also been known to sharpen both ends of any pencil I find laying around loose. And then it's mine forever.
Ron
Lee Valley Tools sells a pencil for about $20 that originates, I believe, in Switzerland. It is aircraft aluminum and the lead is of a very high quality. As long as you use it on wood, and not concrete, one lead will last you through layouts on about five houses. No sharpening required. Just push on the button to advance. I think spare leads are about ten bucks for ten. I bought mine three years ago and am on the third lead. You can sharpen them for finish work, and a sharpener is included in the button. This is not needed for framing and would significantly change the rate of lead usage.
7mm Pentel or Mars Staedtler mechanical, and Mirado Black Warrior # 2 HB along with a FastCap tape measure with built-in pencil sharpener. And, one of those plastic erasers for that very rare mistake LOL Don't worry, we can fix that later!
Hey Les, I just went to the Lee Valley site and looked around. I found that pencil and a pack of extra leads.... ran about $28 with shipping. I decided to spring for it, just hope I don't lose it the first day! Anyway, thanks for the tip! This is it right?
View Image
I use whatever I can find. They make a special sharpener made for carpenters pencils. Works o.k., but I lost mine. No problem losing pencils, tuck it up under my ball cap. Also, why don't lumber yards give pencils away anymore, figure that's the least they can do.
They do make a mechanical carpenter pencil
You answered the question, and no one noticed...
A bone to the dog is not charity. Charity is the bone shared with the dog, when you are just as hungry as the dog.
-- Jack London
Some times it is best if my answers are ignored.
Hey Don,
How do you like that mechanical flat pencil?
I bought one and found it to be utter junk, but maybe they got better after they were out awhile.
Bill
Bill , It was ok except that it ended up like the wooden ones ............. Lost someplace . I did like the fact that it "sharpened " fast. I didn't like the way that the lead advanced or didn't stay that way. I do have extra leads though if I ever find it again. All in all it was a good idea , produced cheaply .
Don,
As you say, "All in all it was a good idea , produced cheaply." Many good ideas are sunk by sloppy execution. I bought mine because I liked the idea. The pencil, however, was awful to use, it rattled, the adjustment slipped, lead was prone to falling out or somesuch. I actually threw the thing out, which goes against my thrifty Yankee heritage. In a better iteration, that could be a fine pencil.
Bill
DP,
You are right about losing it. I have lost it many times but missed it immediately. At that point, I would stop all work and trace back.
The one thing you have to watch out for with this pencil, given that you can keep track of it in the first place, is the blue lead advance button on the end, which also doubles as a sharpener. It tends to pop off of the pencil with a slight jar, especially in cold weather. I have lost it no less than 40 times. Eventually, I learned that on the rare occasions when you need to advance the lead, you can do it without the blue cap. Just use a nail to push in on the end of the pen. Miraculously, I have the blue tip today, although I don't keep it with the pen.
Now here's the best part. I have dropped this pen many times, at least ten times from over 35 feet. No problem. I have sat upon this pen many times. No problem. It really is a framing tool, once you chuck the sharpener.
Hope you enjoy it.Les Barrett Quality Construction
On a slightly different subject . . . was doing some (first time) fiber cement this weekend, and we were on some fussy corners using tapered pieces where a porch roof met the side wall so alot of cutting and tapering. Anyhow when you mark the backside of the clap board the stuff is so abrasive you have to sharpen the pencil almost every time you mark it.
We could have marked on the preprimed/painted side (less abrasive) but were using that Makita fiber cement saw with a vacuum hookup and the shoe would mark up the paint pretty good (pale yellow) when ripping.
Any one use something other than a pencil to mark it?
Dude, get a six pack of sharpie's ( markers) lot's of colors to choose from..the metallic silver is sweet on black felt.
Spheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks
Repairs, Remodeling, Restorations.
Metalic sharpie - never seen one - I'll have to get one as I'm doing something with felt later this week.Matt
Matt, if yer eyes are as bad as 'old man Firebird's' (GD&R)you will love it..silver..go to HD or Wallyworld (shudder).
Spheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks
Repairs, Remodeling, Restorations.
yeah...........I'm watchin this.........and keepin score too!!
Just wait till I get me those new spectacles you youngin you!!
Old man.......E S !
EricI Love A Hand That Meets My Own,
With A Hold That Causes Some Sensation.
You can get the silver sharpies at staples, too.
And I think I saw some gold ones there.
A bone to the dog is not charity. Charity is the bone shared with the dog, when you are just as hungry as the dog.
-- Jack London
This is what I always use on concrete. I use them until the tip becomes a blob. If I am very light when drawing lines, I can get quite a lot of use out of a Sharpie.Les Barrett Quality Construction
I use Sharpies a lot but for layout and inside the houses a pencil is better. A small and light pencil mark can be erased after I use it for reference. A magic marker is easier to find but most HO object to it on their walls.
I have found that the metallic silver Sharpies are great for marking breakers during troubleshooting. I mark it and the helper doesn't have to hunt when I ask him to turn one off. Saves time and trouble as it is a lot easier to find than trying to read what passes for a crypt sheet in most panels.
28 bucks?...seems kinda expensive, howdya sharpen it?
Ya don't sharpen it. It's like a mechanical carpenter's pencil. If you need a super sharp point (for finish work), you can tune it up with the built in sharpener. $28 sounds like alot of coin? Consider this, Les...who recommended it to me, is on his third lead in three years. I just bought the pencil and six leads for 30ish bucks. That's potentially six years worth of pencil, right? Five bucks a year? Carpenter pencils average about .36 a piece. For $5 a year, that'll buy me just under 14 pencils. I go through about 5 pencils a week.
Like I tell my customers.... cost of purchase vs. cost of ownership.
See..... I can justify just about ANY tool purchase.
yeah but, the eraser is 60 bucks...lol
Spheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks
Repairs, Remodeling, Restorations.
Any carpenter that can afford a $30 pencil is probably good enough to not need an eraser. (And if I do?... I can always use my helpers. He will be smiling the entire time he is handing it to me.)
P.S. I like the fat sharpie with a chisel tip on one end, and a fine point on the other.
yeah, and ya can't erase a sharpie too easy..{G}
Spheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks
Repairs, Remodeling, Restorations.
How come I just bought a $30 pencil but I'm too cheap to buy Sharpies? Sometimes I just don't get me.
you need the 13th step..{G}
Spheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks
Repairs, Remodeling, Restorations.
If I make a mistake in layout with my pencil, I use a blue sharpie to override. If things change, I override the blue with black. Sometimes, when working for others, I have had to use black to override the blue. Since I have been working for myself, I have only had to use the basic pencil marks. The same applies to chalk.Les Barrett Quality Construction
Same here, I will normally use the black or a pencil for layouts. Correct "changes" with blue. And if I ever have to pull out the red one... It's not a good day!
That mechanical pencil from Lee Valley looks just like the lead holders I used in engineering drafting back in college. They had a sharpener built into the button at the top as well, I bet you could find about the same thing at a decent art supply store for a lot less than $28.
This is a bit off topic, but I'm always fascinated when I tear into a wall on my house and find pencil notes written on the framing by the original carpenters back in 1913. Sometimes it's a dimension, other times it's been the address of my house (I assume this was from the lumber yard, noting where to deliver the wood) and I've found a signature or two. I even found some writing on the plaster wall in my den, underneath seven layers of wallpaper, where one of the carpenters wrote some good-natured insults to the paperhangers.
There was also the ancient Copenhagen tin sitting on some crossbracing in the ceiling, and an embossed glass Gluek Beer bottle buried down against the foundation (must have been from some mason's lunch...)
I am familiar with the mechanical pencils. I first became acquainted with them in 1965 in high school, in my drafting class. At that time, I noticed that you had to spend a lot more time spinning them in the sharpeners than in drawing to get the job done. In 1968, while working at Alamo Ironworks as a draftsman, I got into some industrial heavy use of pencils with the same result. I bought this pen with skepticism from those years. It is a different animal. I am not a paid endorser of this product. It is good! I think the price will go up if they are ordered in significan numbers.Les Barrett Quality Construction
>> I'm always fascinated when I tear into a wall on my house and find pencil notes
Me, too. Walls are like time capsules. I left a couple of Easter eggs hidden in my last house: A newspaper, skeleton key, a No. 2 pencil, my daugher's handprints on the wall behind a kitchen cabinet...
Janet
Yer wuz robbed !
Robbed I telz ya !!
I used these pencils for years....
Pencil
A bone to the dog is not charity. Charity is the bone shared with the dog, when you are just as hungry as the dog.
-- Jack London
Close.... but not the same thing.
No one's raining on my parade today! Good try though. ;
Luka, I have all of them and drafting sets, and Leroy Lettering stuff and gawd knows what else..My late brother was a commercial artist for many Co's including JAL (Japan Air Lines) when he passed away in'85 I inherited ALL of his art supplies.
My first wife was a Draftsperson for a Civil Eng, and a paste up artist for a commercial printing co..(if you ever saw an old Chilton's Repair Manual for autos, she did the paste up..)
I could mark my 2x4's with a nib and india ink?
Spheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks
Repairs, Remodeling, Restorations.
Wouldn't a quill be better ?
;)
A bone to the dog is not charity. Charity is the bone shared with the dog, when you are just as hungry as the dog.
-- Jack London
that too...lol
Spheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks
Repairs, Remodeling, Restorations.
All you rich folks with your $50 pencils and Sharpies. In MY day, we just used a nail. And if you make a mistake and had to remark it, you'd just push harder. ;)jt8
I have one of those I had to buy in my freshman year at N.C. State when I thought I was going to be an engineer. Still have it 40 yrs later! Have not used it in about that many years though. Maybe I keep stuff too long.
Throw the pencil away and mark a line with the utility knife.....
When hiring new recruits that claim to be experienced, I have a simple test. I put out a pencil, utility knife, framing square, piece of 2x6, tape. I ask them to sharpen the pencil, square a line across the 2x and find the center of it in each dimension. Within a couple of seconds I know if they actually have any experience. If they pass this test, I get to the serious stuff. If they can't put a fine point on a pencil in 5 or 6 simple push strokes I say, thank you for applying. With some, I worry about giving them the knife.
Beat it to fit / Paint it to match
damn son, I'll find the center of the lead in 4 swipes of the knife..can you?
Spheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks
Repairs, Remodeling, Restorations.
They'll be lining up to get me for this one but I try to avoid hand tools when possible. My slider station is my main work area on the job site so I have an electric Boston right there. Just one stab and I'm ready to go. I let new guys have an extra stroke or two just so they can enjoy the pleasure of making an extra shaving or two. You know those hand tool folks.
Beat it to fit / Paint it to match
ROAR...when I used to be an outside salesman for a lumber yard..I'd hand out the carp pencils...I used to get a kick outta asking who knew how to point one..most crews, one guy could doa decent job of it....LOL
Spheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks
Repairs, Remodeling, Restorations.
I think you brought up a worthy subject, I use a lot of pencil ,and razor blades for that ordeal,and can't say why I never thought of a crayon...I do use a school or drafts-mans pencil for trim,cabinet and furniture work,for those I have to look at an art supply store...
Scribe once, cut once!
what a baby......would U like your saw to cut on its own for you two?
Heyyyyyyyyy. I'm kidding bro.sorta
Be well
####
The secret of Zen in two words is, "Not always so"!
http://CLIFFORDRENOVATIONS.COM
Yes I would. that way I would not get saw dust in my tool belt.
Kip
Just came from Lowe's with the new Sharpie Professional. It says that it works on Wet and Oily surfaces, and it has a new stronger tip.
Sounds good to me. That was my biggest complaint. It would never work on plates covered with dew, and the tip would shread on rough conc.
Now only if the ink will flow better to the tip??? I'll know Monday.
Yes I would. that way I would not get saw dust in my tool belt.
Kip>>>>>>>>
No saw dust in yer tool belt????????????????????????
Than yer not a carp.
Hey bro.......dust is what we're all about.
I know you know!
Be well dusty' : )
andyThe secret of Zen in two words is, "Not always so"!
http://CLIFFORDRENOVATIONS.COM
Just use a small lead bar. Hammer it sharp when it dulls. Lasts a long time too, but it'll make you go stupid if you hold it with your teeth. Lead poisioning you know.