Hey folks
I have recently had a another carpenter who said he was previously paid for his 1/2 lunch break. I have never heard of this. I was never paid for lunch. I’m assuming non union settings. I guess I would be curious as to what the union carps do as well.
Is anyone paying for lunch? and while I’m asking;
How many hours a day?
How long a break when? (is break paid? i think so)
Thanks
arthur
Replies
Arthur,
I work for a large residential union framing company outside of Chicago,Il. We work from 7-3 and take a 1/2 hour break at 11. I'm pretty sure that it is a federal rule to be paid 15 minutes of break time for every 4 hours worked. The union rules call for a 10 minute break at 9:30 and 30 minutes at noon. Work 7-3:30 that way. We prefer to get out early, in the summer we start at 6:30, or 6 if we can get away with it. Home owners usually start calling the police when it's that early.
Any idea where the rule about 15 minutes of paid break per 4 hours of work comes from? I used to think that to, but try as I might, I haven't found any information other than a rule requiring that your employer has to allow bathroom breaks. For what it's worth, we generally skip 15 minute breaks and take a 1/2 hour paid lunch.
Any idea where the rule about 15 minutes of paid break per 4 hours of work comes from?
I think that's a misconception that people have. IF you work in an environment that you do repetitive work, like a factory/assembly line, I think that you have to be given a 15 min. break every 4 hours, not 100% sure if that's the case but I don't believe that there is any federal law that says that you have to get a break for 4 hours worth of work(unless of course it falls under the repetitive work thing). Repetitive work does not mean banging a nail into a board all day long like a framer or finish carp either. It means screwing the same part into the same kind of refrigerator all day long!
Doug
Right. It's an urban legend then.
The only reason that I know this is because my wife had over 100 employees(large clothing store) when we lived in TX and some/all/partial demanded there 15 minute break that the FEDERAL GOV mandated so that they could go out and smoke! She didn't know the rule on it so she called and the response that she got shocked a lot of her employees. She said that the gov. only allowed for repetitive work, like I mentioned in the previous post. I'm sure that has something to do with the mundane work and falling asleep or complacency and injury.......
I thought(memory not all that clear on this, I don't listen to well!) that the only break that she gave was for lunch break and that was if they were there over so many hours but I thought she didn't even have to give that? Not real sure on the last part, like I said, I don't listen all that well when my wife starts talking shop to me!
You wouldn't believe how many people believe other wise though.
Doug
Not in the State of Oregon it isn't. It is the LAW and employers actually have to insist the worker take them. http://www.oregon.gov/BOLI/TA/T_FAQ_Restandmeal.shtml Ten minutes of every 4 hours worked plus 1/2 hour for lunch. Some exemptions , but in general if you are an hourly employee then it is the law. In Oregon when it comes to labor law the more stringent of Federal or State is the one that rules.
They can't get your Goat if you don't tell them where it is hidden.
We're lucky we live on the West Coast, where rest breaks are mandated. They are not rerquired in IL., MI., MA., or by the Feds.
It comes from negotiated contracts. I can't tell you the number of General Motors offspring I have employed over the years that tried to enlighten me on the finer points of their version of employment law. It actually is quite amusing watching them flounder about without a clue... If I had a dollar for everyone of them that said I'd hear from their lawyer I wouldn't be posting here.
We are not union and we get paid for the whole day. We don't take our two 10 minute breaks but rather we take 20 minutes at 10 and another 20 minute break at 1:00 in the afternoon. We start at 7:00am and end at 4:00pm.
Here in NW OH. Union.
No paid lunch.
10 min breaks mid morn and mid aftn-paid.
A Great Place for Information, Comraderie, and a Sucker Punch.
Remodeling Contractor just outside the Glass City.
http://www.quittintime.com/
We take an hour for lunch instead of taking breaks morning and afternoon. My guys have always preferred to get away to eat, do banking or nap. Each sprig they can vote for what they prefer. It is up to them not me and I am always surprised they all appreciate this option
I also like it because the workflow is uninterrupted. Getting ready to take a break and starting things back up takes away some of the efficiency.
This is not hard and fast rule. Some days we go grab a coffee as a coat dries or after a particularly difficult task. Hot summer days often call for caution. I have no problem with the guys stopping for a few minutes to drink some water and get out of the sun.
I of course have no one stopping for smoke breaks.... That may be a new thread. Do you allow it and how many breaks do you stand for?
Jon"There is no good answer to a stupid question"
Russian saying
Edited 3/3/2008 2:41 pm by paintguy
I've worked 27 years, the last 20 union, and never had a paid lunch break.
10 minute morning and afternoon coffee breaks were on the clock though.
Most of the commercial work was a 7 hour day. Residential was 8 hours...buic
I work as a sub to other builders and remodelers. I bill from the time I get to the job site to until I leave. Plus some extra IE; materials, mileage and estimates for customers.
Russell
"Member of the Jewish Capenters Union"
Union doesn't pay for lunch here. When I started out in '77, nonunion cash outfit, we got paid for 1/2 hr. lunch. $5 bucks an hour.
Mike
Trust in God, but row away from the rocks.
I get paid even if I stay home. normal work day 7-3
No union, but depending on the job lunch has sometimes been paid. It can be a perk to keep carps happy, but mainly it's money in the contractors pocket.
Now that I'm the chief bee and not just a worker bee, the reason for the paid lunch has become more clear. With T&M or cost plus jobs the contractor has a financial incentive to up the number of billable hours. It makes the carps a little more money, it makes the contractor a lot more money when 10 carps are adding 5 hours a day to the bottem line. At $20 an hour profit, that's $100 a day before tax. Do that 200 days a year and we're talking real money.
Win-win? Not for the client picking up the bill unless there is a real reason. Maybe it's cheaper to pay lunch and not have to up hourly rates.
On the other hand I can say it can pay to eliminate the 1/2 hr lunch and use that time for slightly longer breaks throughout the day. three short lunches/breaks seem to keep things moving more than a big break.
Other jobs are paid from the time we leave a location until we return. In those cases the paid lunch is just part of the up front negotiations.
In other cases lunch is paid so clients aren't out with a stop watch. I've had a crazy lady sit down with a pad and paper at each invoice and try to point out where my timekeeping didn't match with hers.
Finally, in some cases it's not possible to stop at a normal lunch time so we don't take off the half hour. It's a benefit to the client to keep working until a natural break comes up rather than lose momentum.
In the end I think it's good managment that dictates whether to pay lunch or not. It depends on the individuals and situation.
Cheers
Beer was created so carpenters wouldn't rule the world.
I'm union, and I never heard of a paid lunch break in the union.
Workday: 8 Hours
Work starts: 7:00 AM
15 minute PAID "coffee" break: Either 9:30 AM or 10:00 AM
1/2 hour Lunch NOT paid: 12:00 PM
Usually: No afternoon break.
Work ends: 3:30 PM
That's residential and commercial around here, except in residential you might start as late as 8:00 AM and end at 4:30 PM. Anything more than that is unusual, and non-union companies usually don't give you a morning "coffee" break. Idaho Don's posts are the best non-union deals I've ever heard of.
Anyway, why would an employer pay YOU money unless you're making HIM money? Unless my company was known for working for T&M like Don mentioned, I would be highly suspicious if my employer offered to pay for my lunch. I would check, and double check, that my wages were up to par.
Of course, there are sometimes regional exceptions to what I outlined above. For example, in the rural area I live in (1 hour away from the city I work in for the union), non-union companies sometimes pay for drive time to the LOCAL site if you meet at the owners home in the morning. However, those same companies pay on a 1099, and they also don't pay squat.
-T
Paying on a 1099 is a sub and not an employee. Here in the great state of MD we have employment at will. Meaning I can work you 24 hours a day 7 days a week with no breaks.
Well, I agree that a break is not required by law, and if my employer didn't want to give me one I wouldn't complain. Although, I do think an UNPAID lunch break is required. If it's not required, any employer who doesn't allow an unpaid lunch break in 8 hours is still a rat in my opinion.
Regarding non-union companies paying on a 1099 and misclassifying them as "subs:"
Your guys are only subs if they have their own contractors insurance. Because so many non-union contractors pay on a 1099, the IRS won't go after one guy that's reported to them because they'd have to go after everybody. However, if you ever get audited and you've been paying so-called "subs" on a 1099, you will be toast.-T
when I worked in Portland Maine 15 years ago for a construction co. we started at 7 am and had a 9 am 15 min coffee / smoke break and a 1/2 hour lunch break all paid. by having paid breaks they didnt let anyone have smoke break during work.
most other jobs I worked stupid guys smoked all day long and Id keep on working. Id be under some crawl space or up the side of some building and look around at some dick head standing around smoking. some of the guys I worked with are already dead.
My lungs look like a virgins at least thats what my Dr says.
I smoked when I was 16 for a few months, thats when I figured they taste like SH - IT and when I made out with girls that smoked too they tasted like SH - IT . my wife and I both dont smoke.
gee sorry to get off the subject. just didn't like working with smokers. I'm just glad most of you guys don't smoke.
Edited 3/3/2008 10:36 pm ET by dogboy
Thats crazy. in NY we by law have to have a 10minute break every 2 hours of work and a 15 min. lunch break. weather it is paid is up to the employer. At will work rules means your employer can fire you for anything and doesn't have to explain...
Every 2 hours sounds good but I work for myself now so I dont even think about it anymore and the two guys I work with are more like partners we work for the same hourly rate and split the cost for materials that gets charged to customer. and all three of us find the work seperatly so we always have work and the small jobs we do alone unless were trying to get caught up for some jobs we do together.Carpentry and remodeling
Vic Vardamis
Bangor Me
Washington state mandates 10 minutes paid break/ 4 hours worked. Also, 1/2 hour un-paid meal time after five hours worked. I have the poster, and I would supply the link if I had more time.
I am very surprised that the Feds don't mandate breaks, and I am also doubtful of those that claim that they don't. That being said, I can't find it myself on the OSHA website.
We have the same rule in California. We take the afternoon break in our trucks on the way home, if we are taking a lunch.
Our office hates it but we usually skip lunch, especially if it is a small crew. Start at 6:30 take our 20 minutes of break at 10 and leave site at 2:30. Eight hours pay.
Mike
Trust in God, but row away from the rocks.
I not only pay for lunch every day, I also buy lunch everyday.
If I have subs working on my job I ask them if they want lunch as I am leaving and I buy their's regularly.
This is the only real perk I offer, besides helping the subs instead of just watching.
I usually persuade the HO to spring for lunch on friday if we are on their home for more than a week.
Paying for time and lunch gives us time to recharge and reassess our schedule and it lets me keep an eye on potential substance ingestion.
It also gives my crew an opportunity to bring up problems or issues that I may need to address that afternoon.
This eats into my budget but it balances out with people being more cooperative and more at ease to tell me about any difficulties arisen.(When I am working it is a lot more disruptive),also if we need something I can get it on the way back from lunch.
ANDYSZ2
WHY DO I HAVE TO EXPLAIN TO FRIENDS AND FAMILY THAT BEING A SOLE PROPRIETOR IS A REAL JOB?
REMODELER/PUNCHOUT SPECIALIST
If yer GF tastes like shid the you probably have an over-bite.
.
"After the laws of Physics, everything else is opinion" -Neil deGrasse Tyson
.
.
.
I have Transcended the need for a Humorous tagline...
When I was a small time builder I usually always had the same guys.......they got paid for lunch.....they got paid for breaks.....and they got fined if they really did something stupid that cost me money.
They were good and I was good to them...good pay (no bennies though)
You only learn who has been swimming naked when the tide goes out.......Warren Buffet
Everything's possible and everything's negotiable.
Bob's next test date: 12/10/07
I'm a non union framing sub... I pay my guys from the time they get to work until the time they leave. Somewhere between 8 and 12 hours a day. I send a guy out to pick up lunch for those who want it (I pack a cooler) and we sit down together at noon for 1/2hr or 40 minutes. The rest of the day they take breaks for water/bathroom/snack when they need them. My guys don't abuse this freedom. If they do, they're not a good fit for my crew and it doesn't take long to figure it out. I've found that the way guys tend to handle this small freedom speaks volumes as to how the rest of their work ethic is.
I'm the 'boss' because I'm an alpha dog. And like the idea of being (somewhat) in control of my own income. But I don't enjoy being "the boss". My guys know that the less I have to play boss, the happier I am. And the happier I am, the happier they're gonna be. It's a good system. They tend to self-police before too long.
From the department of labor...
http://www.dol.gov/dol/topic/workhours/breaks.htm
The Feds suck. Glad I live in Washington.
You don't get paid for lunch. I've had to go buy lunch for Mexicans. They'd pay me back. It always bothered me to do it but they just didn't seem to be able get it together for a sack lunch and they were hungry. What are you going to do? As a rule I was brought up not to go out for food or fast food so spending $20-$30 dollars on Mc Donalds was just wierd to me.
They'd be hungry if they were waiting for me to run for lunch for them. It's been 30 years and I haven't every went out for lunch for myself, so I doubt that I'm going to run for a bunch of guys who are too lazy to get up and make themselves a peanut butter sandwich. After a few days of them drooling and watching me eat, I'd bet they'd bring their own sandwich! Bob's next test date: 12/10/07
paid from 8am till when i stop. no smoke breaks. no dicking around breaks. just work. usually take 30-45min lunch paid. can't make enough money without it.
no smoke breaks. no dicking around breaks. just work
Reminds me of this sign!
View Image
Edited 3/4/2008 9:54 pm ET by DougU