All,
I am renovating the second floor of my house into a master bedroom suite. The bathroom flows directly into the bedroom with no walls or doors. The unique geometry of my house provides adequate privacy.
I want tile the bathroom with 6″ tile on 1/2′ backer board on 3/4 t/g OSB on 3/4″ x 8″ boards on 2×8’s (probably at spans greater than allowed today). Old 1x8s are screwed down and OSB is glued and screwed as well. Since the bathroom flows into the bedroom there is a mid-room transition from Tile to carpet that will be about 10′ long. Original design called the transition line to be curved but I can’t figure out how to do that so I decided for 90° angles. The carpet will be high quality shaw carpet on 8 lb pad so this will give at a carpet thickness of at least 3/4″.
Any suggestions on the transition. I have searched all the old posts and all the suggestions are schuter (sp) or wood or marble all of which I don’t thing will work in this situation.
Anyone with some innovative suggestions would be appreciated.
Thanks
Tim
Replies
Use 1/4" cement board to keep the tile lower than the carpet. You get a cleaner look if you don't use any kind of strip. Plus it will be more comfortable to walk on. Just butt the carpet to the tile and fasten carpet with tack strip which will be covered.
Durabond5,
Do you think there will be any issues with tiles cracking unsing the 1/4 cement board vs the 1/2"?
Since there is 1-1/2" of wood underneath, the floor is sound, but I am more concerned with deflection. I will use the best latex modified thinset I can get from a professional tile store (TEC full flex). Also, I'm using the 6" tiles to give a better chance to avoid cracks.
Regards
Tim
You buy a cheap tool twice and then you're still stuck with a cheap tool!
with 1 1/2" sub-floor you shouldn't be getting any deflection. Just make sure its screwed down good. I always use 1/4" on floors. 1/2" I use for walls and counters. The cement board is an underlayment. It really doesn't make the floor stronger.
Not trying to take it away from durabond5 but 1/4" is perfectly suitable for floors, as with teh 1/2 it must be atached to the subfloor with screws and thinset. Then you get a monolithic slab to attach tile to. The structural strength is provided by the subfloor, not the CBU.
Skip the backer board. Use a layer of Ditra. It's about 1/4" thick, maybe a little less, and is designed for flors where deflection may be a problem.
I use a Schluter tile edge extrusion, looks like a L. Long side has perforations, lays on the floor and is held in place with the thinset. The short leg is only about 1/4" so it usually matches the tile. It gives you something to grout against. It comes in a couple of colors, one being an almond, so if you are using a tan grout is pretty much disappears.
I would imagaine you could snip the long flange and get it to bend to a radius. It's aluminum, so if you bend carefully it will hold it's shape.
Down here we use an aluminum z-bar to hem the carpet. Again it could be cut into shorter strips to look like a radius.
"When asked if you can do something, tell'em "Why certainly I can", then get busy and find a way to do it." T. Roosevelt
Fast Eddie,
What is Ditra. Is that the stuff they had in FHB a month or so back that is supposed to work as a crack isolation membrane? Or is it something else.
I know the top of the floor is under compression, but stiffness is also a factor of a square of the thickness so eliminating the backer board just sounds like trouble.
Any comment.
TimYou buy a cheap tool twice and then you're still stuck with a cheap tool!
Yes, Ditra is the orange plastic waffle looking stuff. The hardieboard or cement board will not add any strength to the floor structure. It only provides a nice surface for the thinset to adhere to. I can get Ditra from my tile store for about $1.50/sf. I think the hardieboard is $10 for a 3x5 so that's about 70 cents. But a bathroom can't be that big to make much of a diffeence in cost.
"When asked if you can do something, tell'em "Why certainly I can", then get busy and find a way to do it." T. Roosevelt
Fast Eddie,
A bathroom can't be that big!!!
It seems nothing I do is small. Overall the floor will be about 200 sq ft 8' x 20' and some odd shapes. so your looking at $300 vs $150. But in the grand scheme of things that's not too bad. I'll have to see if my tile distributer carries it.
How do you make a cut tile edge easier on the feet at the transition?
TimYou buy a cheap tool twice and then you're still stuck with a cheap tool!
What kind of tile? If it's natural stone, you can round over the edge very easily. If it's porcelain or ceramic, cut it with a wet saw, then break the sharp edge with a carborundum stone, or hit it lightly with a diamond wheel in a side grinder All you need to do is take the sharp edge off.
DalTile carries it. They have two storesd in Detroit and one in Grand Rapids. Try 248-471-7150.
"When asked if you can do something, tell'em "Why certainly I can", then get busy and find a way to do it." T. Roosevelt
Fast Eddie,
It's ceramic tile from American Olean. Good stuff, from the last time I used it. Some cheap tile I used in the past seemed more like glass. This tile seems more like fine china.
I've got lots of suggestions. Thanks for all the input.
Regards
TimYou buy a cheap tool twice and then you're still stuck with a cheap tool!
<<How do you make a cut tile edge easier on the feet at the transition?>>
For a good, clean cut use a wet saw and then ease the edge with a stone. Another good reason to roll the carpet over into the Z-strip and rubber mallet it down. This, if done properly and close to the edge of the tile, will be slightly higher than the tile and hide and protect the cut edge (and your bare feet).
Don't take the easy way and bang down ordinary tack strip. The cut edge of the carpet will eventually fray and even if you think you've bent over the tacks after stretching the carpet you will always find one doing damage to your tender tootsies.
Ralph,
What exactly do you mean to "roll the edge of the carpet into the z-strip".
The carpet my wife picked out is a very high quality Shaw carpet that has a really dense and thick pile. I'm afraid if I roll it over (if I understand just folding it under at the edge) that it will create a large lump. Is folding the carpet under at the edge what you are talking about?
Thanks
TimYou buy a cheap tool twice and then you're still stuck with a cheap tool!
The way i do carpet (could be wrong), I nail down an aluminum z-bar about a half inch back from where I want the finished edge to be, and cut the carpet a little long. Then tuck the carpet under, get it all smooth, and mash the z-bar flat with a hammer and wood tapping block. mashing it flat keeps the carpet from pulling out, and takes care of the hump. Looks sharp if you do it carfefully.
"When asked if you can do something, tell'em "Why certainly I can", then get busy and find a way to do it." T. Roosevelt
I talked to my commercial Tile store here in Detroit - Virginia Tile and they have L-strips of varying height. They also say there is a product that can be radiused to make the curves I want.
They recommended against the Ditra as they say it is more of a crack isolation membrane and does not provide any strength or support to the floor. They recommend Ditra on a slab. 1/4" backer board is what they recommend since I have a thickness issue. Also they recommend Durock over hardie backer even thought they sell both.
I've decide on the 1/4" backer board using the best latex modified thinset I can get both to set the backerboard and the tile and then the L strip for the transition. I liked one of the old posts which used 30 lb felt of reducing widths to make a long smooth transition if necessary to build up the carpet at the transition. As with everything, there is always a multitude of ways to do everything.
Thanks for all the advice.
TimYou buy a cheap tool twice and then you're still stuck with a cheap tool!
Well, the bozos at Virginia Tile apparently apprenticed at Home Depot. Hardie backer does not add any strength to a floor. It only provides a nice surface to bond the tiles to. The problem you are facing is one of excess deflection with resulting cracked tiles and/or grout. That is exactly what Ditra is designed to solve.
Anyway, like you say there are several ways to solve the problem. What's the worst that can happen? Your DW says "I told you so" every month for the rest of youir life. :)
"When asked if you can do something, tell'em "Why certainly I can", then get busy and find a way to do it." T. Roosevelt
FastEddie,
Maybe I mis-represented the answer from virginia Tile. They said that the extra 3/4" of OSB on top of the 3/4" shiplap 1x8s would take care of the deflection (at least over the 7' the tile will span. Since neither the backer board or the Ditra would add any strength, they recommended the backerboard installed with high quality latex modified thinset above and below over the Ditra.
I'm still not sure what is the best. The reality is it is a risk no matter what I do because of the long spans of the 2x8s underneath (aprox 14' or 12' unsupported).
TimYou buy a cheap tool twice and then you're still stuck with a cheap tool!
2x8 at 16" will span about 13' with L/360, so you're probably ok with ceramic or porcelain tile.
Help me here ... maybe it's your sentence structure ...
they recommended the backerboard installed with high quality latex modified thinset above and below over the Ditra.
When you say "over the Ditra" ... do you mean that they recommend the backerboard rather than the Ditra? Or backerboard on top of the Ditra?
And you need to read the mfgr spec sheet. I think they recommend unmodified thinset under the backerboard, adn modified on top. Or maybe it's the other way ...
"When asked if you can do something, tell'em "Why certainly I can", then get busy and find a way to do it." T. Roosevelt
Fast Eddie,
I don't know about the backer board, VT recommended latex mod thinset above and below the backer board. The Ditra spec sheet calls for latex mod thinset below the Ditra and unmodified thinset between the Ditra and the Tile.
Also from the Ditra spec sheet another benefit is that it is a waterproofing membrane. In a bathroom where the floor is going to get wet it might not be a bad idea.
Youre starting to convince me that the Ditra is the best way to go. The thickness, de-coupling and waterproofing are all good benefits. The other thing I noticed is you can lay your tile immediately after applying the Ditra. The spec sheet says you don't have to wait for the thinset to set, although I would probalbly wait an hour or 2 just to make sure I didn't mess anything up.
Do you know if you can get Ditra cut to size? From what I saw it comes in pretty big rolls.
Tim
You buy a cheap tool twice and then you're still stuck with a cheap tool!
Do you know if you can get Ditra cut to size
My tile store will cut off however much I need.
"When asked if you can do something, tell'em "Why certainly I can", then get busy and find a way to do it." T. Roosevelt
"They recommended against the Ditra as they say it is more of a crack isolation membrane and does not provide any strength or support to the floor. "
Yeah ... and neither does any backerboard. Backerboards are not structural.
Ditra can be used to apply tile over a lighter substrate ... although I would never rely on it for that application.
Jeff Buck Construction
Artistry In Carpentry
Pittsburgh Pa