If all that is available is a 100 foot roll of cat5 cable…
The run is only about 30 feet…
Can the remainder of the cable be left on the spool, and the cable still be used ?
Is that going to degrade the signal ?
.
We are smart in so many ways. Surely, we should be able to understand that in between war and passivity, there are a thousand possibilities. ~Howard Zinn.
.You are always welcome at Quittintime
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Replies
I would not think it would be significant. Try it, best case it works, worst case you cut the cable and re-terminate.
Then report back.
Or this is just a bump {:)
Can the remainder of the cable be left on the spool, and the cable still be used ?
I don't see any reason why you couldn't leave the entire 100' intact, as that's well within the limits. To get good access to the end on the inside of the reel, though, I would take the entire length off of the reel and then coil the excess back up, binding it *loosely* with cable ties, or, better yet, velcro tape.
I'm assuming that this is not a permanent install, and that you might want to use the entire 100' for something else, later.
Bob
Correct that it isn't a permanent install, and that the full 100' may be needed later.I know that it isn't even a third of the length you can run. The length of the cord was not the reason for the query.I was concerned that if that much cable were left coiled around itself, there might be some degradation in signal. From interference/crossover/whatever.Just like if you run the cable in a conduit with a power line.And thank you both for your replaies...We are smart in so many ways. Surely, we should be able to understand that in between war and passivity, there are a thousand possibilities. ~Howard Zinn..You are always welcome at Quittintime
It's pretty damn hard to get crosstalk with Cat5, given how it's constructed. If you're worried, simply LOOSELY coiling the wire should reduce crosstalk by probably a factor of 10 vs having it tight on a spool.
As I stood before the gates I realized that I never want to be as certain about anything as were the people who built this place. --Rabbi Sheila Peltz, on her visit to Auschwitz
That was the plan...We are smart in so many ways. Surely, we should be able to understand that in between war and passivity, there are a thousand possibilities. ~Howard Zinn..You are always welcome at Quittintime
That's my exact set up. No noticeable problems other
then the wife complaining about my pretty blue cord across the house.
Thank you...We are smart in so many ways. Surely, we should be able to understand that in between war and passivity, there are a thousand possibilities. ~Howard Zinn..You are always welcome at Quittintime
Hi Luka,
I was concerned that if that much cable were left coiled around itself, there might be some degradation in signal. From interference/crossover/whatever.
Follow these rules....always 14" + from any high voltage sources.....entire length of cable, always 100 meters or less - 328' in perfect situations......never less than a 6" radius regardless of whether that is a bend or coiled up. There are other circumstances that can change the use of this info but in general you'll be fine.
In your case, leaving it in a pull box is not a problem....usually the last few inches of boxed cable does have some kink to it and should be cut off prior to terminating.
Pedro the Mule - Loop 'd' loop
We and our telecom guys deliberitly leave 30,40,50' of cat5E coiled up and laying above the ceiling on just about every pull. When they decide to reconfigure an office area we don't get caught "short" when we need to reroute the cable. Been doing that way for 20+ years, and have never heard of a problem.
The main problem that you might have far end just sticks out and has been twisted, sharp bends, or other damage that will give the signals problem.
William the Geezer, the sequel to Billy the Kid - Shoe
Bill, that's pretty much the reason for using the spool. To keep the run as clean as possible.Thanks for the reminder about sharp bends...We are smart in so many ways. Surely, we should be able to understand that in between war and passivity, there are a thousand possibilities. ~Howard Zinn..You are always welcome at Quittintime
I'd unroll all 100 feet and wrap it with tinfoil. Just to be safe.
Not a problem, we used to leave 100' plus coiled in ceilings of our office to be able to relocate drops as needed. As long as total length did not exceed 100m your fine.
That's what I thought.But best to be sure.Thank you...We are smart in so many ways. Surely, we should be able to understand that in between war and passivity, there are a thousand possibilities. ~Howard Zinn..You are always welcome at Quittintime
of course your 100' of cable is actually two pieces that that add to 100' on the same spool
bobl Volo, non valeo
Baloney detecter WFR
"But when you're a kibbutzer and have no responsibility to decide the facts and apply the law, you can reach any conclusion you want because it doesn't matter." SHG
Whatchootalkinbout Willis ?It's one single 100 foot roll of cable. Already terminated on both ends.I have already unrolled a similar roll, and done most of the run with it...We are smart in so many ways. Surely, we should be able to understand that in between war and passivity, there are a thousand possibilities. ~Howard Zinn..You are always welcome at Quittintime
It'll degrade the signal, but not much. Would only be a problem if you were already marginal somehow. Your theoretical maximum for 10BaseT is 100 meters -- about 350 feet -- though I'm reasonably confident that even that figure can be exceeded by maybe a factor of two.
Don't worry about leaving it on the reel. The twisted pairs inside Cat5 cable were designed to prevent interference or cross talk even when dozens of cables are packed tightly on a cable ladder and zip-tied together.
Most important is not to make sharp bends and when terminating, to un-twist as little of each pair possible, just enough to get the wires into the plug/jack before crimping.
I've got a very minimum look into "structured wiring" and just to satisfy my curiosity, what signal are you sending/receiving over the cable? Is this DSL (outside ISP) over phone service?
LAN..We are smart in so many ways. Surely, we should be able to understand that in between war and passivity, there are a thousand possibilities. ~Howard Zinn..You are always welcome at Quittintime
Oh! I guess I'm out of touch because I thought most of the connections inside homes were primarily done with wireless routers etc.
>>I thought most of the connections inside homes were primarily done with wireless routers etc.<<Hard-wired LAN is still faster than wireless for transferring large/many files between computers. You would be hard pressed to tell the difference for internet use though if using 802.11nSteve
And LAN has gotten faster since the last time I ever used it.Used to be 10/100.Now it's 10/100/1000...We are smart in so many ways. Surely, we should be able to understand that in between war and passivity, there are a thousand possibilities. ~Howard Zinn..You are always welcome at Quittintime
we're doing 10gigE now in our facility at work so it's now 10/100/1000/10000
Opps...I can see I'm out of my element, I'll confine my "structured wiring" to hooking up tv sets and maybe one computer without LAN. That's why there are no experts on everything.
"Used to be 10/100.Now it's 10/100/1000"Why, you young wiper-snapper.. ..- -.- -- .
William the Geezer, the sequel to Billy the Kid - Shoe
So HE'S the guy who snapped my wiper!!
As I stood before the gates I realized that I never want to be as certain about anything as were the people who built this place. --Rabbi Sheila Peltz, on her visit to Auschwitz
(I remember when it was 110. Without the M.)
As I stood before the gates I realized that I never want to be as certain about anything as were the people who built this place. --Rabbi Sheila Peltz, on her visit to Auschwitz
There are probably kids who can whistle 110 baud these days.
Not as many as 30 years ago.
As I stood before the gates I realized that I never want to be as certain about anything as were the people who built this place. --Rabbi Sheila Peltz, on her visit to Auschwitz
Remembered it I lived it.miles of paper tape for bulk storage and using an ASR33 for a portable terminal.But most of my modem work was at the breakneck speed of 300..
William the Geezer, the sequel to Billy the Kid - Shoe
Yeah, 300 was like "high-speed internet".
As I stood before the gates I realized that I never want to be as certain about anything as were the people who built this place. --Rabbi Sheila Peltz, on her visit to Auschwitz
Depends on the application if it is a home network connecting to the internet you probably will not see any noticeable degradation of speed or connectivity and for a temp install it should be fine. If it is and a cooperate environment it can cause issues as a spooled cable is more likely to pick up interference. The issues that interference is that it causes dropped packets requiring the computer to keep requesting the lost data to be resent and the server to resent it. This if it happens enough times to enough computers can have a huge impact to network performance. <!----><!----><!---->
As for the USTP being twisted to prevent cross talk yes that is true for preventing cross talk interference from the CAT5 cables them self not to prevent outside interference hence the requirements to keep it away from parallel electrical runs high voltage ballast and equipment . <!----><!---->
I have installed miles and miles of Cat5 cable and have been a consultant to repair even more bad installs. I don't like the way cable certification is carried out as most time the cable is connected and tested usually in a non active environment or after hour environment. With out all the UPS's running Routers and switches active. Lighting for the building on, AC ect ect ect. I use Fluke DTX CableAnalyzer to certify my cables to TIA/ISO standards Ether scope to access full running networks under live conditions <!----><!---->
I a few years back I worked on a job for a well known call center company to install 800 PC's for during the install I noted some problems with this cabling install the had potential to impact future operation mainly those running parallel to the large roof installed AC system (the AC system was installed after the main cable runs this was in March). I was told point blank to mind my own business that the cable had passed certification and that it was fine. <!----><!---->
Come the first day hot enough to require AC they had such poor network performance that the VOIP system kept crashing calls dropped slow network performance that they had to shut down for the day to trouble shoot. Their clients were not impressed to have 60 percent of a call center down. Cable contractor came in that night (when it was cooler and no AC and it passed and performance and load testing was fine. few days latter the same thing happened. T<!----><!---->
He some one remembered my inquirers on the potential problem with the installs and sure enough I was right
These recommendation come from the IEEE not because they sound good but because they have been proven to work in the lab and in the field.
> As for the USTP being twisted to prevent cross talk yes that is true for preventing cross talk interference from the CAT5 cables them self not to prevent outside interference hence the requirements to keep it away from parallel electrical runs high voltage ballast and equipment.This will come as a shock (figuratively) to thousands (if not millions) of engineers and technicians who have long used twisted pair because it prevents noise pickup from outside sources.The way that CAT-5 is unique is that each pair is twisted with a different pitch. If they were all twisted at the same pitch then, in spite of the twisting, there would be strong cross-talk between adjacent pairs, since the same wires in two adjacent pairs would always be in close proximity. By twisting with different pitches a given wire is first in proximity with the white wire of the adjacent pair, and a few inches down in proximity with the colored wire, so that crosstalk is negated.
As I stood before the gates I realized that I never want to be as certain about anything as were the people who built this place. --Rabbi Sheila Peltz, on her visit to Auschwitz
The difference noise cancels out.However the the common mode could possible be enough to overload the receiver chips..
William the Geezer, the sequel to Billy the Kid - Shoe
> However the the common mode could possible be enough to overload the receiver chips.True, but X-Base-T receivers have a pretty good common mode rejection figure, and in running by, say, several fluorescent lights one would get a random injection that would tend to partially cancel. The big danger is probably running parallel to a power line for a goodly distance, or some other similar situation where consistently phased hum is apt to be injected.Cat-5 isn't crystal glass -- it pretty robust. But it's not idiot-proof, and you do have to avoid doing patently stupid things.When I run Cat-5 I certainly do make an effort to keep away from fluorescent fixtures and avoid running parallel to power lines, but I wouldn't panic if there's an occasional violation of the rules.And in the OP's case there's certainly nothing wrong with leaving the cable on the spool, so long as length limits are observed.
As I stood before the gates I realized that I never want to be as certain about anything as were the people who built this place. --Rabbi Sheila Peltz, on her visit to Auschwitz
I agree. Just wanted to make it clear that some of reported problems can be true. But it does take a strong signal to cause problems and not being run next to a 20 amp circuit for 2 ft..
William the Geezer, the sequel to Billy the Kid - Shoe
It's still working just fine here.I unwound the entire spool.Then intentionally messed up the 'loops' to all kinds of different sizes.Then hung it back on the spool, in handfuls, as a jumbled mess.Maybe that makes a difference as well ?..I'm not worried, I'm curious...You are always welcome at Quittintime
Having it in a jumbled mess probably is the best approach, in terms of reducing pickup and minimizing line inductance. But Cat-5 is so well constructed that having it in a tightly wound spool isn't much worse.
As I stood before the gates I realized that I never want to be as certain about anything as were the people who built this place. --Rabbi Sheila Peltz, on her visit to Auschwitz
You're post has puzzled me....
I've probably installed a million feet of Cat 5 (and better) cable, and I've only seen it come in large boxes - not on little spools. I suppose anything is possible, though.
As for running the cable ... despite exacting instructions regarding the running of the cable, I've never had any problems trace back to the way the cable was installed. EVERY problem (as indicated by certification tests) traced back to bad connections at the ends of the wire.
The connections are where you need to focus your concerns.
Also .... in my experience, even my commercial customers almost never actually need anything approaching Cat-5 capabilities. I wouldn't worry about a little extra cable in the attic.
I agree Reno. We had people claiming all sorts of things on how communication wire was run, too close to fluorescents, near line voltage cables, loops on the wire etc. I strung out 500' of Cat 5 in the T bar ceiling of the shop with big coils right over the 277v ballasts, tywrapped to the 1600a 480v builder feeder that came through our space and a number of other urban legends. The only thing that showed up on a scope set up for TDR was the baluns when we used it for Token Ring, 3270 etc and a tight overhand knot I tied in it. That was a big hump on the trace. Punching this on a 66 block also showed a blip on the TDR.
We ran Ethernet at 100Mbs, T/R at 16Mbs, Baseband at 1Mbs also 3270 with a balun and Twinax (A/S 400).I never saw any data degradation in the data stats, in spite of the fact that this was 166% of the recommended length. The Ethernet at 100M was the one that surprised me since this had the reputation of being the most fragile of all of the data protocols at the time.
Well, puzzle no more. ;o)
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They also had a 250 foot roll, available.
All, factory terminated...We are smart in so many ways. Surely, we should be able to understand that in between war and passivity, there are a thousand possibilities. ~Howard Zinn..You are always welcome at Quittintime
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That looks like a pretty tight core. It never ceases to amaze me how the cable manufacturers put out strict specifications for minimum bending radii, yet companies like RCA (OK, I know that the name RCA is sold to the highest bidder for products like this) cram this stuff onto tiny reels...
For practical applications, I'm sure that you'll have no problems. Let's face it - for residential applications, the primary use is Internet which isn't likely to exceed 20 Mbit these days, a fraction of the rated capacity of the cable. Also, since the cable is factory terminated, I'll assume that it's stranded cable and probably not rated for in-wall installation. I'll bet you lunch, though, that there's no mention of that on the packaging.
Rant over. I'm glad that you decided to coil the extra wire loosely. I would be curious, though, to see if the product, as you received it, would certify with industry-standard test equipment...
Bob
Good point.The actual core, while twice that size, is only 2-1/4".Still, it works just fine.I connected it for a test run, while the remainder was still tightly wound on the spool. (Both ends were readily accessible while it was still on the spool.)It worked fine while still tightly wound, as well...We are smart in so many ways. Surely, we should be able to understand that in between war and passivity, there are a thousand possibilities. ~Howard Zinn..You are always welcome at Quittintime
And thanks to you and gfretwell, and the others, for the feedback.For those of you who still have doubts, It has been in service for most of a week now, and no problems. I connected it up, awhile before starting this thread. Didn't have any problems, but figured it was better to ask, just in case of future problems.The extra 70 feet of cable have been loosely coiled in about a foot diameter coil, on the floor.I'm going to screw the spool to the wall, and hang that loose coil on the spool. Just to keep it out of the way...We are smart in so many ways. Surely, we should be able to understand that in between war and passivity, there are a thousand possibilities. ~Howard Zinn..You are always welcome at Quittintime
While I can't tell you if it will have an effect, cable on a spool forms an inductor. I believe this forms a low pass filter. If it does have an effect, it could be very difficult to diagnose.
> cable on a spool forms an inductorCable not on a spool forms an inductor. But because the CAT5 cable is push-pull/balanced, the inductance is very low, and having it on a spool adds very little additional.
As I stood before the gates I realized that I never want to be as certain about anything as were the people who built this place. --Rabbi Sheila Peltz, on her visit to Auschwitz