Replies

1. 
   philarenewal | Mar 12, 2006 04:49pm | #1

   >>"Is it alright to cut out the ceiling joists"

   Probably not.  If the ridge is not a bearing ridge (very likely that it's not a bearing ridge), and the roof rafters run parallel to the joists, then it's likely that the ceiling joists are used as your rafter ties (not called collar ties -- that's something different -- Piffin taught me good! ;-)), recently learned that rafter ties are also called cross ties.

   Whatever they're called, that's what keeps the outward "thrust" force of the rafters from spreading your walls apart.

   To convert to cathedral ceiling, you either need to install what's called a "ring beam" around the walls (only ones I've seen done that way are steel, so this might be outside what you re willing to tackle), or convert the ridge to a bearing ridge (also a pretty major undertaking).

   As a compromise, you may be able to get away with cross ties spaced 4' on center (essentially the equivalent of putting a piece of wood across the place where the ceiling joists used to be).  If they are made out of a nice looking wood, or if finished to match the ceiling, both ways make can make a pleasing looking room space.

   Hope this all makes sense to you.

    

    

   "A job well done is its own reward.  Now would you prefer to make the final payment by cash, check or Master Card?"

2. 
   JasonPharez | Mar 12, 2006 05:21pm | #2

   Lemme get this correct: You want to convert a flat ceiling to a cathedral?

   If so, it prolly can be done. How it's accomplished depends on where you live and where your living room is in relation to the exterior walls.

   I.e., on my house, the north (side wall) of the lvg. rm. is also the exterior wall, so I would use the roof rafters as the ceiling joists for that side of the vaulted ceiling. I would then plumb a line at each endwall at the center of span up to those rafters, snap a line across them, and then mark a layout on the opposite sidewall so that the new ceiling rafters (joists) would nail to the side of the original rafters at the peak.

   If that confuses you, you may want to consider hiring this out. Chances are a reputable framing crew of two men could do the demo and framing in less than a day.

   EDIT: I didn't even think of all the wiring and HVAC lines that would need to be rerouted---yeah this probably ain't for the inexperienced.

   Jason Pharez Construction

      Framing & Exterior Remodeling

   
   

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   Edited 3/12/2006 10:22 am ET by JasonPharez

3. 
   howhighlites | Mar 12, 2006 07:25pm | #3

   I've had to repair homes where owners have done just that.

   Remove the ceiling joist or second floor joist to create a vaulted ceiling.

   The result, the ridge dropped down, the rafters pushed outward which leaned the outside walls 4-5" out and on the verge of collapse. You should look into what the others have described, ridge beams or ringbeams. 

   To fix our last project we used engineered rods from outside plate to outside plate and pulled the walls in and incorporated them into the interior design of the house.

   Because something isn't required in your area dosen't make it proper building technique.

   You should check with your local building department, designer or engineer.

   Howie 

4. 
   BossHog | Mar 12, 2006 08:12pm | #4

   Are they ceiling joists or trusses? Any load bearing walls in there?

   Those are some pretty serious questions that need to be answered before you do anything.

   Sex on television can't hurt you... unless you fall off.
1. 
   wrudiger | Mar 12, 2006 08:53pm | #5

   Boss,

   I've heard of a truss-type solution - scissors truss?? - consisting of another set of rafters below the existing ones, at a shallower slope that acts as the new ceiling.  A friend did something like this, site-built, and it passed code in earthquake country.  Lots of plywood gussets to tie the whole thing together, engineered of course. 

   Is this a viable solution (given of course all the specifics of the OP's situation)?

   Wayne

1. 
   BossHog | Mar 13, 2006 01:35am | #7

   Repairing a truss to be a scissor truss is generally POSSIBLE, but not always practical. There are so many variables that you basically need an engineer to asses each situation and come up with a solution.The trouble is - The plywood and labor doesn't cost the engineer anything. So there's lots of it used to insure his butt is covered.
   If you jogged backward . . .would you gain weight?

5. 
   dieselpig | Mar 12, 2006 11:53pm | #6

   I highly suggest that you get someone who knows what they're looking at to have a look around at the framing of your house before you start any work.  Friendly with any contractors, architects, or engineers?

   If you just "cut out the ceiling joists, throw up some insulation, drywall it, and call it good"  there is a really really really good chance that your walls will push out and your ridge and roof will sag before you even get to the "throw up some insulation" stage.  Like immediately. 

   Good on ya for asking around first.  The job you want to do is successfully accomplished all the time, so don't be too discouraged.  But I think it's a little bit more involved than you're thinking it is.  You really have to know what it is you're looking at before you start cutting or you could have a fantastic mess on your hands.

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6. 
   FastEddie | Mar 13, 2006 01:53am | #8

   Yes it can be done.  No it's not easy.  And it's not cheap either.

   This is before ...

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   This is after ...

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   And this is the 3" x 18" x 26 ft glulam that made it work ...

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   Edit:  Jeff Buck has an interesting thread somewhere here ... working with a kitchen designer or something ... about finding hidden surprises in the structure and how to deal with them.

    

   "When asked if you can do something, tell'em "Why certainly I can", then get busy and find a way to do it."  T. Roosevelt

   
   

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   Edited 3/12/2006 6:57 pm ET by FastEddie