This is my first time here and I have a question about caulking the joint where the ceramic tile meets my tub. The tub and tile were professionally installed eight years ago and the grout cracked and failed within two years. I cleaned out all the grout and replaced it with GE Silicone and that began to show signs of failing so I did some exploring and found water behind the caulk. Aparently it never sealed well to the tile. I’ve peeled it out to let it dry but I’m reluctant to just go ahead and use the same product. I’m not a newcomer to using caulk, but does anyone have any tips about tecnique or perhaps a better product?
Discussion Forum
Discussion Forum
Up Next
Video Shorts
Featured Story
Traditional lime wash still has tons of useful applications.
Featured Video
How to Install Exterior Window TrimHighlights
"I have learned so much thanks to the searchable articles on the FHB website. I can confidently say that I expect to be a life-long subscriber." - M.K.
Replies
Welcome to BT
Tell us about yourself
Stay awhile it's amazing what we all can learn here.
Now to your caulking problem---- is the water from use or when you cleaned everything out of the joint?
"There are about 550000000 firearms in worldwide circulation. That's one firearm for every twelve people on the planet. The only question is...........How do we arm the other eleven?" Yuri Orlov
The water is from shower use.
I'm goin along with mr Hartman
I would definatly seal the grout everywhere.
http://www.aquamix.com/ is great product for sealing tile & grout"There are about 550000000 firearms in worldwide circulation. That's one firearm for every twelve people on the planet. The only question is...........How do we arm the other eleven?" Yuri Orlov<!----><!----><!---->
Go back and clean out whatever garbage is there - be it silicone or old grout. Clean it good, get out all of the old loose grout too, let it dry and then regrout it with the proper material. The only part that should be caulked is the bottom joint between the tub and the tile. Don't use silicone, get a better caulk.
A caveat - depending on how the tub/tile were installed, you may already have a compromised substrate which is going to continue to be a problem. If your walls were done with "greenboard" - essentailly a form of "sheetrock" - the rot might very well continue. Then you are looking at a whole tile job. Are any of the tiles loose or is it just the grout?
What size are the tiles? How large are the joints between the tiles? Was the grout failure throughout or just in one area?
Don K.
EJG Homes Renovations - New Construction - Rentals
DonK,
What caulk do you suggest? Silicone is great stuff for baths and it lasts longer than any latex based caulk. I use the silicone caulk specifically made for bathrooms from GE or from a company such as Laticrete.
Billy
I use Laticrete products and believe they are fairly reliable. Don't recall ever using a silicone caulk from them.
As far as what I use, it depends on what's on the truck. I have used a lot of Phenoseal over the years. It's a vinyl adhesive caulk and it sticks. I find that pure silicone caulks too often suffer from the exact problem that you had - they do not adhere and water gets behind them. It may be from not cleaning well enough at the outset, or moisture on the tile, or something else. I just know I've peeled off too many miles of silicone spaghetti.
Someone I know recently mentioned she had seen a really good caulk used at her old apartment. I am trying to hook up with the maintenance crew to get the name. If I can, I will publish it.
You should not be using caulk as a replacement for grout, but you knew that right?
Don K.
Hi Don,
I've used the Latisil silicone caulk from Laticrete, but I think they stopped carrying it. You're right -- there can be many problems with silicone and it's a pain to use but the end result can be good. But if the prep is bad or there is existing soap scum or who knows what -- you're right, the silicone doesn't stick and it's a mess.
I haven't tried Phenoseal. Do you find that it lasts a long time and doesn't break down in a shower like the latex caulks?
Billy
The only thing I can say is that I haven't seen it as a problem. To some extent, that's because after it was applied, it didn't seem like there was a callback for it, which really isn't a great indicator. Other reasons I can't say for sure is that it wasn't something I really kept track of - I mean I grab a gun, and if it looks like the right color and it isn't panel cement, squirt, and it gets done. So it could be latex one day and next week something else.
Part of the problem too is the way it's treated in the individual house. I've seen some joints that need to get redone because the people are just pigs, and they never clean. Then you get mold or whatever. Sometimes, you get a small hole in the grout, and they do nothing, and you wind up with bigger problems.
Don K.
EJG Homes Renovations - New Construction - Rentals
The walls are 4 x 4 tiles on cement board and the tiles are butted together with tight joints. The tiles are not loose and the only grout failure was where the tile meets the tub. I figure there must be some flex in the tub (it's an American Standard "Ameristeel" )allowing the grout to crack, that's why I swithed to Tub and Tile caulk.
Okay, this is a little different than what I envisioned originally. It sounded (in my mind anyway) like you were talking about a more wholesale failure of the grout.
The tile/tub joint is a common area of failure. There is a certain amount of flex at that juncture. There is a school of thought that says don't waste time grouting there, just use caulk. There are still many people that prefer to grout and then caulk (that includes me). I've even seen people that will fill the tub half way with water before they grout it to make the tub settle down so they can get more grout or sealer in that joint.
The only thing I can add is that you might want to clean the area with something like alcohol or such before you caulk and make real sure it's dry.
Don K.
EJG Homes Renovations - New Construction - Rentals
Thanks Don. It seems that I've done everything right, cleaning the surfaces with alchohol , made sure it was dry, etc. I too have used lots Phenoseal, but usually for cabinet and countertop instalations and I really like it. I tried to find the Latiseal but couldn't, maybe I'll try again. Maybe I'll try your suggestion and grout it and caulk over it. This is obviously an area where others have had a problem, so I'll really have to stay on top of it.
It sounds to me like the tub (or the floor) could have some movement. Have you ever tried caulking the tub while it was full of water?This would cause any gap at the rim to be at its widest thus allowing you to caulk more of the area..........then when the water (weight) is let out the caulking would compress,whereas it would possibly be pulling away when the tub is in use .
When was the grout last sealed?
Just my two cents but grout will usually fail at some time at this location. It looks great when new but will fail. Caulk is needed. If silicone the first time than latex is a mistake to use the next time cause it won't adhere!!!!!!! No matter how good you clean the surface. Use silicone again..
Cheers
Bob
Is the escutcheon plate around the valve body sealed well? Maybe water is dripping in there. Caulk the joint between the plate and the tile, but leave an un-caulked gap about an inch long at the 6-oclock poisiton for a weep hole.
What's the chances the valve body itself is leaking?
"When asked if you can do something, tell'em "Why certainly I can", then get busy and find a way to do it." T. Roosevelt
All that stuff is tight. I can see it from an acess panel. It's definately the tub/tile joint. Thanks