I am about to undertake the siding on my own home. I have done alot of repairs to siding but never an entire home. Obviously I could never use vinyl. I think if I even thought of it, I would be banned from the Breaktime forums. I would like to know how cadar and hardie plank compare in price, ease of install, longevity, opinions on beauty. My home is what has been referred to as a “carpenter’s victorian” by my neighbors. It is victorian with out all of the gingerbread. And while we are at it what do you suggest for trim? Azak, cedar, composite? Any imput would be greatly appreciated.
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Replies
What I recommend to people around here is the Hardiboard Siding with Prefinished Cedar Trim. HardiTrim is disgusting in appearance. Their siding is beautiful, but the trim is horrible. The prefinished trim is far more attractive.
As far as what will last longer, Hardi all the way. Cementboard siding will last longer than you and me put together.
Dave
There's a big price difference between cedar and Hardi plank, even fj primed cedar. If you're particular about keeping the original look of smooth finish, the Hardi won't cut it. The wood grain isn't exactly a historic look. The smooth finish Hardi looks like painted masonite or worse. My local yard in W.Mass. recently started carrying a primed wood clapboard that I hadn't heard of before. At .57 LF, a little more than the Hardi but a lot cheaper than cedar.
I am not too far from MA. What is this product and at what lumber yard?
Sorry for the delayed response. At Dresser-Hull in Lee, MA they started carrying Paulownia fj primed clapboard and 1x trim to replace their previous line. The clapboard is 1.39 bf, I was off on my previous post.
Thank you Bruce, I am familiar with Dresser Hull. I will check it out.
Hardie is great and the Azek trim paints great and will last forever. I've used both with great results. Do a search of old threads for all kinds of info.
Blind nail the hardie, I think the siding nailers work best. And get a pair of shears for dustless cutting. I have the snapper shears from Pacific tool, model 404. They are about $200 but worth every penny to cut without the dust. If this is a one time job then you can resell them on ebay after (or buy them off ebay if your timing is right). On ebay I think they sell for around $150. I think snapper are the best but porter cable makes a pair too.
http://www.pactool.us/snappershear/
Much as I like some things about Hardi, it's just too dang thin - shadow lines aren't substantial enough.
My only real complaint.
Forrest
EXACTLY what I thought. I ahve been racking my brain to decide which is more important, shadowline or inexpensive longevity.
Plus, try doing this with Hardi -
http://forums.taunton.com/tp-breaktime/messages?msg=73188.197
Forrest
Hardie is just plain ghetto....and mark my words, there will be a class action lawsuit in the future....hopefully there is someone or something left for the class to go after.Does anyone on the west coast remember, in the mid to late 80's, a lightweight tile roofing product that was supposed to last a lifetime? In fact I even think it was called "LifeTile" or something close to that. Poof!...those forever roofs magically turned into lightweight tile roofing dust, after they were exposed to the rain and leached out a solution that was very alkaline....which promptly attacked the cellulose binder matrix.....and Presto!!! Only by the time the lawsuits got underway, the company, now facing a bazillion lawsuits (because their product was so widely used, thanks to a builder kickback scheme that perfectly mirrors "Hardie-Bucks", not to mention the lucrative incentives that the supply houses received for pushing it) the company had no choice but to file for protection from their creditors....yup...bankruptcy. My parents had one of those roofs, they never received a dime.Just so everyone doesn't think that I am pulling this out of my a**, I have a Bachelors degree in chemistry, working towards a Masters, and have closely examined and experimented with the Hardie Plank product.Cedar and Redwood were engineered by Mother Nature, I trust her a heck of alot more than some bozo at the Hardie lab....case in point, several of my classmates pursued chemical engineering degrees, doing so on scolarship courtesy of the HUGE endowment of the School of Pulp and Paper Sciences at the Univ of Washington (yup, of which James Hardie is a contributor) and I wouldn't trust them to mix a Mentos and a 2 liter of Diet Coke.Just a thought....MJ
Tell me more about this 'close examination and testing' you've done with Hardi-Plank please. Because unless you provide a few tangible FACTS, you are indeed pulling this out of your azz. Degree or no degree.
View Image
I think what will happen is that the pressure to get cheaper and cheaper will take its toll. The stuff you put up now will last longer than the stuff you put up ten years from now.
So convenient a thing it is to be a reasonable Creature, since it enables one to find or make a Reason for everything one has a mind to do. --Benjamin Franklin
Hardie is composed of a cementitious mixture that is bound by a cellulose fibre matrix. Basically kinda like adobe brick is made, but instead of clay/mud and straw, it uses a cementitious composition and strands of paper/wood. The resulting mixture is then extruded with that lovely cedar grain pattern....and voila' you have a Hardie Plank. (Not rocket science....or even chemistry really). The exposure of the product to rainwater (such as when used as siding) which is acting as a Lewis acid, causes a reaction with the alkaline cementitious base, producing a salt and leaving behind a solution of very high Ph (ie: caustic) which then attack the latticework of paper/wood....and over time I bet you can guess what happens. Yup...just like a certain roofing product. Try this if you are still skeptical. Go buy yourself a nice shiny, new, unprimed chunk of Hardie....on your way home stop at Safeway and pick up a container of Red Devil drain cleaner. This is almost 100% Sodium Hydroxide. Next make a solution by charging a vessel (a glass Pyrex measuring cup ONLY!) with 1500ml of distilled water and adding a tablespoon at a time of Sodium Hydroxide crystals, swirling between each addition, until no more crystals will dissolve and go into solution. PLEASE wear safety goggles and PVC GLOVES while doing this, as this stuff will blind you if splashed in your eyes, and burn the snot out of your skin if it contacts it. Also be advised that the solution will get VERY HOT as the breaking of bonds that occurs as it goes into solution is HIGHLY EXOTHERMIC, so BE CAREFUL. After the solution has had a chance to cool then transfer it to a plant sprayer (preferably with Viton seals) and then place the Hardie where you can access all sides of it. Finally apply the solution, making sure that you coat it on all sides thoroughly. Repeat this process each time the HP dries...until you run out of solution. Watch what happens....curious isn't it? Hmmmmmmmm......azz eh?See..... chemistry really is fun !!MJ
That's awesome. I'll be sure and remember to not strip all the primer and paint off my house and spray it down with drain cleaner. Thanks for the heads up.View Image
I think dumb upsets you more than it use to?
LOL.... maybe dude. I dunno. Why, you think I'm gettin' cranky?View Image
Little bit maybe
I'll take a look at it. My sense of humor is really sarcastic though. Sometimes sarcasm doesn't translate so well over the internet. I can see where it could come across as angry or frustrated or something. I appreciate your honesty. (That wasn't sarcastic)View Image
You've got to be kidding... Hardi is bogus because it won't stand up to repeated applications of drain cleaner? LOL.
Reminds me of a guy who told me in a serious tone that the "Club" steering wheel locks were no good because all a would-be thief had to do was spray it with liquid nitrogen and it would shatter with the slightest blow.
In FACT it would do precisely that...at least where I am from, criminals often show a remarkable level of resourcefulness. Liquid nitrogen is relatively simple to procure. To the same extent, it could also freeze and shatter other things ....like ones fingers. I guess it is really all in your perspective....mine is "The Club" is easily defeated...and...Hardie Plank, especially if not completely sealed with finish (INCLUDING end cuts...) will eventually fail miserably. On the bright side....all of you guys whom were making your money doing LP lap siding replacement, (which by the way failed as a result of improper coating/sealing of the manipulated edges, and at the selvage, where water "wicked" into the matrix of the product) can transition seamlessly to Hardie-Plank siding replacement, hopefully you didn't nail the sh*t out of it.Just a thought,MJ"Most Changes Aren't Permanent, But Change Is..."
Hardie Plank, especially if not completely sealed with finish (INCLUDING end cuts...) will eventually fail miserably.
You are certainly entitled to your opinions, but folks here might be more accepting of your views if you posted some facts or evidence to support the conclusion. Especially since Hardi plank has been around for decades, and shows none of the effects you seem concerned about.
Nothing is forever, though - I suspect my ancestors will eventually have to replace the Hardi Plank I have installed. But I bet it's longer than the 15-20 year life of vinyl or wood.
You've totally lost me. You talk about the ill effects of acid rain on hardi siding, but then you tell us how to test it with drain cleaner, which is the opposite of acid.
Where did you get your degree in chemistry again?
Maybe you should try and re-read my post...although I am certain that I write in a somewhat technical style, I nonetheless think that you may understand the "gist" of the post, should you choose to review it and not just (after a cursory read) spout off some "let me on the bandwagon " kind of statement, like "blah...blah...blah... so where did you get your chemistry degree again?". (by the way, to answer your inquiry fully....Bachelors=University of SF, Graduate=University of Puget Sound)I only point this out because I THOUGHT this was someplace that people came to share ideas and learn from others.....not just stroke each others ego's. Respectfully,MJ"Most Changes Aren't Permanent, But Change Is..."
I did read your post, and I hadn't read the other "bandwagon" posts before I replied. Apparently you didn't read my entire post, because you did not address anything but the last question. Your "technical style" notwithstanding: you attacked hardi on the basis of it's resistance to acid and then your supporting evidence was using a very caustic base. That's a simple mistake and I would have overlooked it except you threw your degree in there as if that meant we shouldn't try and read what you said, just take it at face value. That was on top of attacking your fellow students as being bad chemists. Sorry if your feelings were hurt by my question, but based on your mistake it seemed unlikely that you were really a chemist. Congratulations on your degree.
That's a simple mistake and I would have overlooked it except you threw your degree in there as if that meant we shouldn't try and read what you said, just take it at face value. That was on top of attacking your fellow students as being bad chemists.
Did you notice where he said his "degrees" were FROM?
"Did you notice where he said his "degrees" were FROM?"
I did, but I know nothing of those schools. I grew up in Delaware, with one of the better undergraduate ChemE degrees in the nation (at the time, I have no clue now).
Lets be blunt. You are not getting flack because people like Hardiplank. You are getting it because of your rather unscientific experiment that you cloaked in technical jargon, and justified by referring to your credentials, rather than addressing its shortfalls.
I find posting in Breaktime is often a humbling experience. Giving advice on topics that I think I am fairly knowledgeable about, I have found that a fair number of the people here have far greater experience. That's what makes it a valuable resource.
Everyone makes mistakes. Move on and keep posting. I'm sure there are a number of topics where your experience will prove useful.
Just curious: I looked at the website for the U of Puget Sound. They advertise themselves as a liberal arts college, and the only graduate degrees they currently offer are in Education, Occupational Therapy, and Physical Therapy.
And we are all still curious about your answer to the acid / base question. Your educational background notwithstanding, explaining that discrepancy is a necessary first step at establishing credibility here.
......only graduate degrees they currently offer are in Education, Occupational Therapy, and Physical Therapy.
And we are all still curious about your answer to the acid / base question. Your educational background notwithstanding, explaining that discrepancy is a necessary first step at establishing credibility here.
It's been four days now and we still don't have an explanation....hmmmm
Maybe there is no explanation. Except " Hey, You're right, I pulled all that out of my azz"
That's awesome. I'll be sure and remember to not strip all the primer and paint off my house and spray it down with drain cleaner. Thanks for the heads up. dieselpig '07
Yep, there is an unpleasant odor in the air.
Maybe he is too busy studying...
maybe he was a victim of a drain cleaner experiment?
I totally agree! All the cement board siding that has been installed unprimed and unpainted will be worthless in 40 or 50 years and will have to be stripped off and replaced. Great job security for my great grand kids who will undoubtedly be carpenters because they want to follow in pappie's footsteps :-)
LOL...View Image
if you read the label it says not to get it wet until after it's painted.
why do we always think we know more than mother nature or can do things better?
if you read the label it says not to get it wet until after it's painted.
And your point is........???????View Image
wood doesn,t fall apart if it gets wet before paint, fiber cement board does! i've seen it happen with hardi and others many times.
"wood doesn,t fall apart if it gets wet before paint, fiber cement board does!"
Hmmm. I left a bunch of Hardi siding and wood cutoffs outside, some on the ground, over the winter, pending the arival of the final dumpster for my addition job. The Hardi was as good as the day it was delivered. Same for a couple of leftover hunks of Hardi underlayment. No damage from being outside & wet over winter. No so much with the wood, which suffered the expected degradation from being outside & wet for 5 months.
I have a neighbor who has an addition with Hardi siding and wood trim. One guess which is rotting and falling apart after two years. (Hint: It's NOT the Hardi.)
Mike HennessyPittsburgh, PA
I'm building a small outbuilding, about 1000 sq ft, now. Decided to use Hardi based on recommendations. To find out how it weathered, I took a piece of scrap, stuck it in a bucket of water (half in, half out) & left it outside last summer. It's still there. While the end in the water obviously soaked up some water, there was no softening & very little wicking into the part out of the water. Not until the freeze/thaw cycles hit during the winter was there any degradation to the piece at all. After the water froze solid & thawed several times you could see some delamination in the piece. I don't think it's likely to degrade in normal use.
i've used Ashland -Davis, Certainteed , & Hardi fibercement starting in 1998.
i've tested all three.. never saw anything at all resembling what you describe
also.. i've been installing cedar claps since 1973...... have them on every house we've ever lived in ( 4 so far)
but i'll be using FiberCement on anything we build for our own accout .. and it's what i recommend to my customersMike Smith Rhode Island : Design / Build / Repair / Restore
wood doesn,t fall apart if it gets wet before paint, fiber cement board does! i've seen it happen with hardi and others many times.
Many times? Many times? Now I know you're FOS. Gotta be 1000 builders who frequent this board, yet you're the only one who's seen this happen. Not just once mind you..... but many times.
Maybe you should tell the installers in your area to let their customers know it needs to be painted or something. I'm still finding random scraps of the stuff in my yard from when I sided my house two summers ago. In fact I was cutting in a new planting bed in my side yard last weekend and dug up a few scraps. None of them were falling apart bro. The ones that were buried were showing some signs of delamination but even I was surprised by how well they had held up. The scraps in my yard that I come across seem to fairing equally well. At first I thought some of them were actually remnants from the asbestos siding we pulled off because they had held up so well.
So as long as don't strip the paint off my house and then get drunk and decide to either douse it in draincleaner or bury it.... I'm thinking I'll be all right for awhile. But again.... thanks for the heads up.
View Image
This statement alone "...is then extruded with that lovely cedar grain pattern...." excludes you from those with a clue.
WOW! Who knew this thread subject would get so heated. I LOVE it. I have always thought the more heated a discussion was, the more people cared about what they are saying. I want to thank ALL that replied to this, I really appreciate it. If anyone is going to JLC Live, I would love to meet you. I'll be the big fat guy with a black Marvin jacket on.
<the big fat guy>
Hey! You can't say that! It's derogatory!
Forrest - lookin' out for you
i did my whole house with factoryprimed cedarsiding(clapboard) on the lower half of the house and the top half with factory primed (oil) cedar shakes. then 2 coats of latex paint (california paints, consumer report rated it the absolut best for exterior). the cedarshakes have to be reprimed by me because the "tannin" in the shakes is bleeding through, maybe it's the oilprimer. if everthing is done right this paintjob will last at least 12 years. i went with wood all around and i have no regrets. the old wood i ripped off was 100 years old and 90% was in good shape, just to much paint on it. i vote is for wood. remember what they said about vinyl siding, maintenancefree and it last forever, yeah right.... good luck. maybe i post a picture of my house that will help you make up your mind , i just don't know how to do it.
So, do the woodpeckers like your siding too? :-)
AAAHHHHHH Yes...the forever vinyl siding....ooops...wait ....does not UV light attack and degrade polymers over time?...?...? Welp, so much for not having to maintain it. This gentlemen is why we still have GLASS, not POLYMER windshields. Woodpecker47, regarding wood finishes, both film and penetrating, check out the Forest Products Laboratory website - http://www.fpl.fs.fed.us/. It is a veritable cornucopia of information, regarding all things WOOD, (sorry, no FC fans allowed). As far as voting goes...of course, my ballot is marked WOOD also. Regards,MJ"Most Changes Aren't Permanent, But Change Is..."
Does anyone have a ballpark cost per square for cedar?
Why not? I am the giant fat guy. I can say that about my self all I want. I LOVE to eat!
mike... sorry i missed you at jlc.. if you get a chance ... go back and go to the Malco booth this morning
they have the best fibercement tools
especially the shears and the red plastic guages... really.. those two items will really make it easy working with Hardie
if you miss it .. you can buy those tools at M&J Supply on Union Ave in Prov.Mike Smith Rhode Island : Design / Build / Repair / Restore
Thank you Mike, I will get the tools.
=======================================================
This statement alone "...is then extruded with that lovely cedar grain pattern...." excludes you from those with a clue.
=======================================================I love what you have done with the rhyme scheme, (extrude, exclude, and clue...Brilliant!!) insanely progressive, complex and edgy.....sort of Robert Frost pokes Andy Warhol-ish and yet for all it's sublime qualities, still maintains it's intensely powerful lyrical content. Attention everyone.... I'm gonna have to be the first to say it.....gentlemen, it appears as though we are fortunate enough to have ourselves a budding poetical genius among us.
and.....HE was inspired by the likes of me...yeah..me...can you believe it....are you sure I am worthy of such a high pedestal?So please Tim, tell us....just a hint....c'mon.....so when does the coffee table version of your literary work hit the shelves at Amazon?....Because I for one am gonna be first in line to pre-order it. In awe, I remain...your biggest fan,MJ
Tim Fanclub Member #00001
Edited 3/23/2007 4:57 am by mjishere
In all serious, he has a point about your knowledge of how FC is created. What did you mean by extrude? How is a textured surface extruded?
Pretty smart guy - aren't you?
Science touches every aspect of life. It's has roots in probably all industries. The problem is that actual experience, field testing, etc, trumps it every time.
I once had a neighbor who was a college professor. He was planting a small bush in his yard in hard dirt. Picture this: Overweight guy with pasty skin and soft hands is sweating profusely as he digs a quart sized hole with a 3' "lady shovel". He is all red in the face. I glanced over there occasionally as I was cutting my grass. After about an hour I went over there to talk... He was just about to get the shrub in the hole. I told him: "I have this theory that the ability to perform labor is inversely proportional to intelligence." It was a compliment, of sorts. Translation: Smart guys sometimes have trouble just getting stuff done. Too much theory involved.
Of course, the world smart people can make their way in a large variety of situations, as opposed to the book smart people who excel in more controlled environments.
Now Miss Jis: take your toys and degrees and run along and play somewhere else. Maybe this web site: http://www.spartechsoftware.com/reeko/ Lots of high school chemistry stuff to mess with over there.
yur so fulla shid , yur eyes are brown
hardie has been installed in Australia for more than 20 years
AND
the only difference between fiber cement and the old asbestos cement siding is the lack of asbestos and the extra thickness in the modern product
i can go to any of 20 homes in my town, the old asbestos cement siding looks as good ( or as bad ) as the day it was installed in 1930...
your testing is suspect
also... hardie is not the only mfr. of fiber cement siding..
Ashland Davis was well established before Certainteed bought them
Mike Smith Rhode Island : Design / Build / Repair / Restore
Edited 3/19/2007 6:04 pm ET by MikeSmith
hardie has been installed in Australia for more than 20 years
I thought I heard that Hardie had been around in the states for 30-40 years, dont remember where I heard that though.....
We put up a sh!tload of the 8 14' board the last 10 years or so, no acid rain drain cleaner callbacks yet.
He's just another good example of somebody with their head up their theoretical azz....
Mike....I am sure that you have read the "Breaktime" Forum rules on postings that are of a personally derogatory nature (semantics included) otherwise...you are gonna get this happygram in your inbox...=======================================================MikeSmith,
Please familiarize yourself with our forum guidelines. We don't allow
vulgar language or personal insults on our forum. This will be your one
and only warning before being removed from the forum for
a period of two weeks. Thanks for your cooperation. -FHB Moderators.=============================================================Breaktime is brought to you by The Taunton Press. Visit us on the
Web at http://www.taunton.com.=======================================================...I'm just trying to look out for you bro'.....I got your back brother...takin' care of ya, you know brah'. :-)...Late...MJizzle"Most Changes Aren't Permanent, But Change Is..."
thanks, jizz... your concern underwhelms meMike Smith Rhode Island : Design / Build / Repair / Restore
Just lookin' after you...I know you'd do the same...right?...Thanks Bro!Your Friend,mJIZZle or Jizz for you my brother"Most Changes Aren't Permanent, But Change Is..."
HI mjishere, I know it's been a few years since your post but it is now 2023 and I'm curious if this is still a concern that I should be looking into.
I was just at my local yard picking up a quotation for Anderson windows and noticed a display board for a new siding product. I was leaning towards hardiplank myself and know i am very interested in learning about this product.
http://www.nucedar.com/
anyone know anything about this?
Thank you sir. After reading all of the responses, I am leaning away from Hardie.
Hardie is great stuff.
if you do not like it you can use wood and paint it , and paint it, and paint it then replace some and paint it and paint it and replace some more
I understand. I guess I am being gun shy because this is my own home. I wouldn't think twice about putting it on someone else's home. I am most concerned about the shadowline. Does anyone have an opinion about using a 1" rip of the material to beef up the bottom thickness of the plank to better match the 1/2" on cedar?
Sorry but around here the Hardie thickness is very close to the wood product I've seen at the exposed edge. Hardie does not have the taper however.
I have seen wood properly installed with paint on all sides and it still flys off. I'f I'm paying for clear wood siding, I don't want to look at paint anyway. Stain looks great for a start but don't last long.
For a soild color I took my chances with Hardie.
nobody notices the shadow lines .I am in a condo projevt = we did 2 sides of a big 2 story building with hardie, the other two are older wood no one noticed.
the hardie on my son in laws home is 10 years old- looks like installed last month.wood pops splits cracks oozes expands shrinks warps and generally sheds paint
hardie does none of those
BTW... i still prefer the Certainteed to the Hardie.. but for some reason, Certainteed can't compete on price in our area...
anyone else notice this ?Mike Smith Rhode Island : Design / Build / Repair / Restore
Mike,
I was going to price CertainTeed because I like the look better than Hardi. When we were in Orlando for IBS (not the digestive disorder) :-) we looked at it and it does look better. When I get pricing, I'll let you know.
Tim
Mike,
Can you tell me why you prefer the Certainteed over the Hardie. I have never seen the Certainteed. Thanks.
I think certainteeds or other manufacturers make a slightly thicker board so look at different product lines if thickness is a concern.
ANDYSZ2WHY DO I HAVE TO EXPLAIN TO FRIENDS AND FAMILY THAT BEING A SOLE PROPRIETOR IS A REAL JOB?
REMODELER/PUNCHOUT SPECIALIST
"I understand. I guess I am being gun shy because this is my own home. I wouldn't think twice about putting it on someone else's home."WHAT ??!!?Are you sure you worded that correctly ?
Hey, don't look at me, I'm mentally retireded.
LOL... I was thinking the same thing. My homes have always been my laboratories. Whipped up a few Frankensteins too now that I think about it. My first tile job, my first FC siding job, lotsa paint experiments, crown, first solo roof strip, first lawn tear-out/replace..... busted all those cherries on my own home.View Image
Now that you gave me the fresh perspective, that was a pretty asinine thing to say. Thanks for the heads up.
As Alltrade has pointed out, it was just the presentation.Happens to all of us.=0)
Hey, don't look at me, I'm mentally retireded.
I don't think thats a bad statment myself Mike. I am sure there are many here who installed vinyl siding and Hardie who would not use it on there own home. Just because its ok for others does not mean its ok for me. I have installed a lot of Hardie but would never use it on my home. I don't like the way it looks myself.
In that context, yes.=0)Good point.
Hey, don't look at me, I'm mentally retireded.
I agree completely regarding the installing on your own house versus a customer's house. We install Hardie all the time (so much I'm tired of it).Personally the only Hardie product I like is shingled panel. By those I don't mean the individual shingles (4, 8 and 12"), I mean the 48" panels that are cut out to look like individual shingles. They go on fairly easily (one guy can do it if he's on his own), fairly quickly, and have a good look, IMO. (Downside is I think they're quite a bit more expensive).My main dislike with Hardi lapped siding (we do 8 1/4" mostly, but other sizes have this same drawback), is how it conforms to the wall so much. What I mean by that is it shows every imperfection in the wall...studs out of alignment...a piece of plywood that may have a little buckle to it, etc. If your wall is bad, the Hardi will look bad afterwards. You can try and "float" or "fir" out your panels as you go along, stud by stud, but even doing that it can still look like crap. The shingled panels help hide most imperfections in bad framing, due to the large number of vertical lines. It doesn't fix the wall, but the many vertical lines help play tricks on your eyes (which is good in this case).If you've got straight walls, then regular panels are not so bad, it goes on quickly and looks ok. I think shorter walls look better than longer walls. They help break things up a bit more.Just my .02
All this makes me glad we were able to do our house in Masonite Woodsman before it was taken off the market. Thicker than Hardie but not as heavy, came in 16' sections, relatively little dust when cutting, not as hard to nail, stiffer and less likely to "telegraph" imperfections in the framing.
So convenient a thing it is to be a reasonable Creature, since it enables one to find or make a Reason for everything one has a mind to do. --Benjamin Franklin
The cost of the shingle panels was frightning. It really was what I wanted but then there are a lot of things in life I want but can not afford. I recall a number of 400/sq. maybe?
Great point on having a good base to nail the Hardie to as it will show every wave in a wall. I was lucky in that my builder paid attention to details and supplied high quility work. Of course I paid for it too.
Yeah...you must be short a few Hardie-Bucks...it's ok we understand...Hardie is great...just like that other siding product...by LP....and that EIFS Stucco system...another FABULOUS exterior finish.....I see...my mistake.MJ"Most Changes Aren't Permanent, But Change Is..."
Do a search through the old threads, hardie is a very good product. The first one around here to use it was a local development company that produces some nice houses. The ones that are 10 plus years old look like they were just painted, they look great. If you question the shadow lines, then call hardie, certainteed or other fiber cement companies and see if they have some addresses of places you could see it in person. The wood and fiber cement around here looks the same as far as the shadow lines, the paint is the telling tale, the fc looks much better than the wood.Your local lumber yards might also know a few houses that have it on in the area. If you going to the JLC Live show in Providence this weekend, they have a good demo on hardie and a half dozen reps to talk to about it. They do an install on an 8 ft wall, so you can see what it looks like, cutting it, nailing it, etc.
Edited 3/19/2007 10:42 pm ET by DDay
I'll be at the JLC Live show Friday. Thank you for the info. I will look out for the Hardie Booth.
There is a historic area here in Raleigh NC. To build a house there or do any kind of exterior work you have to get it approved by the historic preservation society for that neighborhood. These people are tough to work with, have a manual of requirements to follow for exterior home and property appearance, and lawyers to enforce it. Fiber cement siding (FC) is OK with them.
I'd say that although the shadow lines may not entirely historically accurate with FC, you would be lucky if one in a hundred people would notice it. Remember though - it is you who will have to maintain the house. Paint lasts longer on FC siding because FC doesn't expand and contract or absorb water the way wood does.
Regarding the above questioning of the longevity of fiber cement products - remember this is the internet. Pick an opinion - any opinion - and you can find someone to support it. For example, I'll bet I could do a Google right now and find someone who says Bush is pacifist. :-)
You have mastered the art of winning friends and influencing people.
Ultimately cedar looks better. FC will last however and the shadowline thing is for the picayune types like you and me. I would use Azak products for trim, they now make mouldings of all sorts. Did a house last year of FC and Azak, from the road it looks spectacular. Use the Certanteed brand.
I do so much rot replacement that if it were my choice on my own house I would use FC and be done with it.
You started the thread, did you check it out at JLC? If so, did you ask about the effects of "Red Devil drain cleaner" on fiber cement.
Yes I was at JLC, and I asked the rep about the drain cleaner. He got a good laugh out of it. We moved on and I actually liked the look of it. The only drawback to me is the unusual way to cut and install it with the dust and tools compared to cedar. As a so called purist, I would LOVE to install cedar but I can't afford it. I don't need a 3rd mortgage. I am already springing for Marvin windows. I think I'll have to go with Hardie based on price alone.
One thing I don't like about the Hardie I've seen (at least I'm pretty sure it was Hardie) is the sharp, unrelieved edge. Looks pretty unnatural to me.
So convenient a thing it is to be a reasonable Creature, since it enables one to find or make a Reason for everything one has a mind to do. --Benjamin Franklin
most wood has a sharp unrelieved edge.
I have conducted tests in my own home and if you let brake fluid sit on a formica surface it will stain the formica.
Based on this I have decoided never to use Formica.
Is this good thinking?
Yer on the right track. On a similar note, I recently stopped stuffing my pants with fiberglass bats on cold days.View Image
Yer on the right track. On a similar note, I recently stopped stuffing my pants with fiberglass bats on cold days.
------Why, fiberglass don't keep you warm enough?
Try the Mooney pants, or maybe clothes cell foam is the answer.
<Mooney pants>
Love the mental picture! Kind of horizontally quilted, like big corduroy.
Forrest
Man, thanks for filling me in on the test. I have decided to stop using brake fluid.
Yep, and then that edge is milled off.
So convenient a thing it is to be a reasonable Creature, since it enables one to find or make a Reason for everything one has a mind to do. --Benjamin Franklin
Not on my all wood house 'cept where I have put on Hardie- dormers etc. wood seems to have a hard edge.
pix of wood and hardie- the wood is the one with missing paint and cracks warping etc.
Dan, when I use cedar for repair work, I plane off the radius edge. The 19th-century clapboards I'm matching always have a sharp edge.
But the rounded edge holds paint better. I think that's its main advantage.
Andy Engle sided his house with Hardie, as I recall. It looked good, and the crisp edges especially appealed to me.
Allen
Probably a regional thing. But especially softer woods like redwood seem to always have a radiused edge. And the Hardie edge is so sharp it looks like plastic sprue.
So convenient a thing it is to be a reasonable Creature, since it enables one to find or make a Reason for everything one has a mind to do. --Benjamin Franklin
There are pro's and cons with both cedar and fiber cement. If you have to buy the shears (I have the snapper shears) or the malco attachment shears, you'll still be less money than the Stainless steel nails for cedar. With FC you'll just be blind nailing with roofing or siding nails and unless your near the ocean, galv's are fine.I just think when you add everything up, the higher price of cedar, the extra cost of SS nails, the lesser durability of paint/stain on cedar and its still wood so rot, carpenter bees, etc are an issue, FC is a better choice.I've heard the malco's for a drill work well but have never used them. Whether you get those or the snapper shears, if you don't need them again just post them here, ebay or local and sell them for 50% to 75% of what you paid and look at it as a rental cost.
dday... we have two sets of the malco shears
the malco guy says they will cut 1/2" hardie backer
we also have the makita FC saw with the shroud and vacuum attachment .. but we don't use it since we bought the malco'sMike Smith Rhode Island : Design / Build / Repair / Restore
I am number 100!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Yeah!
Congratulations!!! You have just won a unit of Lousiana Pacific Inner Seal Wafer Board Siding!!! Just tell the truck driver where you want to start your new mushroom farm and he will drop it there!. ;-)
and my third grade teacher said I wouldnt amount to nothing. HA!