Howdy all,
I am new to the board. Glad to join ya. I do general handyman work.
I am going to be pouring an exposed aggregate sidewalk where the customer wants cedar strips as divider/contraction joints. I’ve seen this on some flatwork at the beach, and I did like the look. What do you all think though. I assume it will rot in a few years and then what? Any alternate suggestions that would work well with the exposed agg?
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Replies
They look really good for about a year, then there isn't much you can do. If he really wants to divide it up beyond expansion cuts, I'd think about using metal or maybe trex.
I've done this with Red Wood and Pressure Treated 5/4 boards. The Red Wood job I see every so often. Did it about 30 years ago still looks acceptable. I installed these projects as someone else taught me. 1) Make sure you drill and run rebar through the wood. This prevents the slabs from moving differently. 2) He taught me immediately after finishing the washing creating the exposed aggergate look to cover with poly for at least 7 days this prevents mud from staining the surface wile curing. 3) Use mild brick wash (acid) and wash the top cleaning the top of the aggregate. 4) Let dry keeping everyone off of it. 5) Apply sealer.
Used to do a lot of that. Today I would be tempted to use IPE. the cedar is too soft to really last as long as the concrete will and after some years starts to look like heck.
Hi Jackson, and welcom to Breaktime
Can't add to what the others have said, as I'm learning as much as you. Just wanted to mention you should take a few minutes and fill out your profile with at least your working location, as other's look at it a lot to know your particular working environment.
Hoping business is good! :)
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Cheap Tools at MyToolbox.net
See some of my work at TedsCarpentry.com
Thirty five years ago I put 2x redwood dividers between exposed ag patio and sidewalk sections....they eventially rotted out in our 40+ inches of rainfall /year and had to be removed and the resulting gaps filled with grout, expansion foam and zip strip caulking. Not too bad for thirty+years, but at todays' prices on redwood---no way!
Through the years I have added exposed aggregate concrete sections to my drive way and initally used 1x western red cedar and currently have gone to #3 pine since the cedar has a very short life in between the concrete. So why pay the price for WRC?
Contemplated using synthetic decking as spacer/forms. Trex is too flimsy and it had the best shape for exposed edges....likewise it is not rated for ground contact. The cost factor of synthetics is high and many of the profiles do not lend themselves to being formboards.
My driveway is 3300+ feet long, 2500 feet is asphalt, 700 ft plain concrete, 100 feet in exposed aggregate. Asphalt in the end is the most expensive due to maintenance, plain concrete is the most economical in the long run, aggregate the most labor intensive, but still better than asphalt!
FWIW.................Iron Helix
Hi Iron, or should I call you Helix?
I took a peek at your profile and you are one busy guy! I think you need the 3300' driveway just to roll out your portfolio. :D
I'm just curious about your comment on trex, that it was too flimsy and not rated for ground use. I just built a deck using trex as the decking and from what I could tell it seemed plenty stiff enough to form a walkway, though it would require more stakes than, say, 2x6's. You've been way more involved in materials decissions than I, so maybe you know more about it. But that's my observation.
Also, just curious about it's not being rated for ground contact. Is that to say it has failed the test of ground contact, or simply that it hasn't been established? I'm asking because I was going to build some planters with trex and wondering if they'll bow out or fall apart in a year. --------------------------------------------------------
Cheap Tools at MyToolbox.netSee some of my work at TedsCarpentry.com
Ted
Call me anything, as long as there a slight amount of respect attached!
Yesterday, in a tense "structural issue" environment at a construction site, I was called a "picky a$$hole" by the contractor at fault. Didn't really bother me a lot, except for that lack of a little respect! Part of the territory! After-all he has the bill for the $10k+ fix!
Anyway...I seem to remember that the installation guide on Trex asks for ground clearance to prevent degredation, ground contact should be via treated lumber .40 or greater.
Imbedded in a concrete joint would expose Trex to constant water and pests, so it may not last ...time frame unknown.
Trex is more flexible than 1x, potentially great for curves, but at ~150#/cf for concrete the lateral and downhill forces means that numerous stakes would be required to keep ones "lines" uniform. Not that it can't be done but probably more involved than with 1x or 2x forms.
Might be a good experiment if time, money, and customer satisfaction are not at risk!
............Iron Helix
Call me anything, as long as there a slight amount of respect attached!
Always! :o)
I was thinking about the trex/ground contact issue and it sort of makes sense. Granted it's plastic (polyethylene?) but it also contains wood fiber. I imagine some of that fiber is exposed, as that's what gives it that semi-woody like feel. If the wood fiber is subject to constant moisture it's bound to soak up some of it, which could then wick into fibers deeper under the skin, all of which will expand and might blow out the piece.
Ahh... I'm just over-analyzing. Bottom line, they say ground contact is a no no, and that's good enough for me.
picky a$$hole ?? I'd consider it a compliment. Well.. at least the first part.
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Cheap Tools at MyToolbox.netSee some of my work at TedsCarpentry.com
Edited 6/11/2008 2:31 pm by Ted W.
Life is good..... :>)
................Iron Helix
My 2 car driveway has redwood dividing it to 4 sections, not my doing. Don't know if a walk would have similar problems but it has led to uplifting due to frost heave. Water gets in around the wood, freezes, up lifts and cracks the concrete.
The water just does not drain right, also always fighting the weeds, growing in the cracks. Just some insight.
Wallyo
Thanks for the advice fellas.
I'm thinking that for a sidewalk application, that just providing some control joints with a jointer will control the cracking, but will it show up enough to make it appear as blocks like with regular concrete?
Or possibly put in regular asphalt expansion with zip strip, then caulk it an earthtone caulk color. No weeds, crack control, no water infiltration, but I wonder how the appearance will be?
I'm in PA by the way.
I don't know what is typical in your area for sidewalk finishes with concrete. Here if I want to make the concrete appear to be blocks I use first broom finish the flat work then use deep a jointing tool and follow that with a smaller one that also polishes the edges of the tooled joint out about 2" on each side. I also then use an edger that matches the jointer in width of polished area and polish the edges of the sidewalk. The final appearance is squares or rectangles of concrete , each area being defined by the polished edging.
They can't get your Goat if you don't tell them where it is hidden.
Hey,
New to the discussion. Not a professional, but prefer to do all handyman repairs myself.
I have cedar strips in driveway expansion joints. Half are rotted out. Thinking about digging them all out ant replacing with self leveling Sika sealer.
Thoughts?
Make sure damn up that self leveling Sika.
It will go where no man has gone before.