I’m about to re-side my house with cedar shingles. 24 years ago when the house was built, the builder used backer board under the shakes (pieces that were about 18″ by 4 feet). these backerboards sections were overlapped onto the row of shingles below.
I can’t seem to find a supply for this material and was wondering if it is out-of-date material; and if there is a better new tech material to use. Alternatively, if the house is wrapped in Tyvek material, is it necessary to use any kind of backer board material at all?
Any thoughts / ideas?
Thanks!
TjPendle
Replies
Never heaard of something like that or a cedar installation done like that.
What is your sheathing?
Tyvek is reported to disintegrate in contact with cedar tannins so tarpaper is recommended
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What is the shingle exposure? Backerboard is usually used instead of another course of shingles when the exposure is too great to provide a double layer. That is to say if you want a 12" exposure with an 18" shingle. Otherwise the gaps go right through to the tyvek.
If your exposure is small enough to provide a double layer of shingle, backerboard is not a good idea as it will impede the drying of the cedar and shorten its lifespan.
Have you tried a roofing and siding supply house rather than the lumber yard or box stores?
Way back when thats all we used...it was easy and I never had any problems or call backs. I'd done removal in old demo work where backer board was used and no damage to the stuff was ever evident.
As long as you plane the shakes the right way...nice and fitted, you should see no issues. I always wondered how much that added to the insulation of the house. Haven't seen it in years...I actually might even still have a bundle somewhere if ya wanna come get it...lol
how it sounds^-->http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2shskL0AYuE
http://WWW.CLIFFORDRENOVATIONS.COM
Anybody have a detail drawing of how this is used? I have never seen it before.
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
Picture? Its too ancient...its before they had camera's. Its just an 18"x36" by about 3/8"-1/2" ish piece of composite of some kind. You can break pieces off with your hands if you wanted.Score it with a drywall knife and snap it off to cut it. Its a light brown in color...kinda wheat color. I'm not sure what it was made with. I'm guessing some pieces of fiberglass and sawdust and held together with some kind of glue??? Not really sure. MAde siding with shakes really easy. I never witnessed any problems with it and I'd seen miles of it. Wasn't toally water proof. If you dropped it in water it'd eventually get soggy but on sidewalls under a decent shake job it wasn't an issue. We used it a real lot...not exclusivly but it was popular. I'd think they'd still sell it.
how it sounds^-->http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2shskL0AYuE
http://WWW.CLIFFORDRENOVATIONS.COM
Sounds like what we used to call "beaverboard". I think it's no longer made - haven't seen it in decades.George Patterson
oh yeh...and how it is used? Just do your course of shakes then put the backerboard on with a four roofers about1/2"-3/4" up from the bottom of your last shake course butting your BB pieces tight together..Same way you'd do undercourse shingles..cept this was big sheets. Kinda had an insulation factor too. Not a bad product but I'd think eventually they'd have made it water"proof".
I used it mostly when I first started out doing roofing and aluminum (etc)siding.
Geezzz...I can remember all the horrible faux siding products they had then. The horrible looking fiberglass shakes....echhhhhhh...did miles of squares of that stuff with ugly fake corners. A few of those products real semi real I guess if you didn't get up close (100' away...lol)
how it sounds^-->http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2shskL0AYuE
http://WWW.CLIFFORDRENOVATIONS.COM
So is there any sheathing behind it? Sounds like it is part of a siding product, strangely interweaved.Which makes me wonder if this guy OP has shakes or shingles
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So is there any sheathing behind it?<<Yeh..sheathing than felt paper then BB-siding-BB-siding etc etc
We "mostly" used it under striated shingles and perfections on sidewalls.
how it sounds^-->http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2shskL0AYuE
http://WWW.CLIFFORDRENOVATIONS.COM
and the 48" bndls below...guess they do still use it. Was from the http://www.ringsend.com/sourcebook/20-07-03.pdf site cept in a format you hate PDF..so I copied and pasted.
And now that I think about it I do remember them eventually coming out with it Asphalt-coated.>>15" x 48" BACKER BOARD BACK 20 Pc. Bundle covers 100 SF @ 14" $4315
20
Ring’s End...a tradition of quality for over 100 years
Prices are for reference only- Please call for up to date costs and current specials<<
how it sounds^-->http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2shskL0AYuE
http://WWW.CLIFFORDRENOVATIONS.COM
I used a product called cedar breather on a recent installation to create a space behind the shingles to let it breathe and dry out.
http://www.benjaminobdyke.com/html/products/cedar.html
Quickstep,
thanks for the info. do you have a source for this 'cedar breather'? is it similar to backerboard?
Tom Pendlebury
It is made by BENJAMIN OBDYKE INC.The cedar breather is for roofs. They have a similar product called Rainslicker that is for under siding. I do not think it is similar to this backer board. The breather products are for creating a drainage plane from a woven material that water can slip through and drain away from the back side of the shingles.http://www.benjaminobdyke.com/html/products/products7.html
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It has been a long time since I've seen the type of siding you are describing. This was not like the cedar shingles and shakes we use today, although, they were called shakes. This was a red cedar product that came in boxes. The shakes were very wide, up to 24"and cut from the best quality cedar, they were also primed and kiln dried. The shakes were machine cut with a serrated/grooved surface on the face but smooth on the back. They were only about 3/8" - 1/2" in thickness, very uniform. You installed them at 16" ? to the weather over celotex backer boards. The shakes would hang down over the backer boards by 1". Essentially you ran a course of the backer board, covered it with the shakes, then ran another course of celotex, shakes and so on. This was the most expensive type of siding you could buy. I remember them being around $40 per box, 4 or 5 boxes to the square in the 70's. Not many could afford those prices but they were top quality. These are still available in 18" and 24". They are called 'boxed cedar sidewall shakes'.
http://www.lakesidelumber.com/siding/siding-shingles.htm
Beat it to fit / Paint it to match
I just sided an addition with the shingles you describe. The existing building was from the 50s and had used plain shingles as the first layer. I didn't like the idea of doing that much work, so I used 1/4" ply as the backerboard.
The combed shingles cost a fortune but are beautifully made. I understand they disappeared for years, but recently have made a comeback as a specialty siding. I also heard there is a version in cement board that looks the same when painted - I don't know if its by Hardi or not.
Those shakes were an easy product to apply. Nice and flat and large with square edges. The asbestos shingles looked a lot like them. We didn't have stainless nails in those days. The last job I remember was before '75. I wonder how it has held up.Beat it to fit / Paint it to match
Hammer1,
thanks for the info. another question.... Have you ever seen a combo siding (cedar shakes on second floor with certaineed cement fiberboard on first floor)?
I'm thinking i should use tar paper for the entire structure (per the comment i read about cedar tanin disolving Tyvek house wrap); and using the backerboard on top with the cedar shakes ... nailing the cement boards directly to the tar-paper-covered sheathing.
Any thoughts?
Tom Pendlebury
Pendle, I know absolutely nothing about cementitious siding. I have seen various combinations of siding on homes. I normally look at things from a maintenance perspective or ease of maintenance. I think I'd be asking if the siding choices will age at the same basic rate and what would be involved in staining, painting or using preservatives. I wouldn't want one type of siding to bleed or otherwise effect the one below. This would not only be true for the type of coating you use but also, for prep in the future. The other aspect would be how it appeared in the architectural sense. I think traditional combinations, used in traditional ways make the most sense. Your combination may look great on a Queen Anne but odd on a Garrison. I actually have two types of siding on my own home. Pine clapboards on the front and white cedar shingles on the rest. This is a traditional treatment on New England buildings, particularly on Cape Cod. Both need little maintenance and I can change the look of my place by just staining the front and changing the color of the door and shutters. I use a clear preservative on the cedar and it lasts twice as long as the solid stains I use on the front, oil or acrylic. It's also not critical that I keep up with maintaining the shingles since they look normal, clean and bright or dirty and gray.With almost any product, the best source of info is the manufacturer. You void any warrantees, worthless or not, if you don't follow installation instructions. Using a rain screen behind siding has become the latest process. It makes a lot of sense in a variety of applications. I've never been a fan of using felt (tar) paper on sidewalls. It may be a personal prejudice. Before today's Tyvek, Typar and other building wraps, we used red rosin paper on the walls. The theory was, that the siding and the house shell needed to breathe. The waterproof tar paper doesn't allow this. The new rain screen products prevent water from penetrating the sheathing but also allow water vapor to escape and provide air flow behind the siding. http://homeslicker.com/products-hs10typar.htmBeat it to fit / Paint it to match
Cedar siding
The product you are looking for to install under cedar shake siding with a high exposure is backerboard, it is available from UBS under product code 5007. It comes in 15 x 48 inch sections and is recomended for exposures greater than 5 or 6 inches. My house has a 11 3/4 exposure and I am installing matching cedar siding on a addition. If you already have Tyvec house wrap on the building I recommend taping off any Tyvec that would touch the cedar tops with tyvec tape. The backer board should be OK but I would call the maker of the backer board before installing to make sure.
r/
Ken