Replies

1. 
   Mike_Smith | Jul 09, 2001 07:14pm | #1

   *
   white cedar or red cedar..?

   perfections or resquared & rebutted ?

   woven corners or corner boards?

   WHAT is the main house siding?

   and do you meet any existing walls?
   what is the finish on the main house?

   and no , you shouldn't wait to finish and.....

   yes, you should backfinish

1. 
   jim_sterling | Jul 09, 2001 10:09pm | #2

   *1. red cedar is more common here (Chicago), is that the common species in New England. the house is being converted to a Cape Cod in Style.2.Please explain the difference in perfections and resquared.3.corner boards4. 4" - 5 clapboard, painted5. yes, I do meet at two inside locationsYour in the right part of the country for the style they are expecting,any regional standards would help.thank you in advance

1. 
   Mike_Smith | Jul 10, 2001 12:20am | #3

   *cape cod would be white cedar... but they look like potatoe chips after they've been in the sun...they curl and twist.. the CLEARS more than the EXTRAS.. but the EXTRAS do too...are you going to remove the clapboards? or just meet them ?if i was trying for the Cape Cod look i'd spec Maibec factory stained rebutted and resquared... in a silver grey..EXTRASthe alternative would be the same in CLEAR..or you could use..unstained bundles of white cedar EXTRA (not CLEARS)and stain them as soon as they are installed with 50/50 Cabots Bleaching Oil and Cabots Silver Grey.. they will last longer if you dip them before they are installed.. but this is labor intensive so you will save money if you use the Maibecs... unless you can get the owner to dip them for you...in the 50/50..watch out.. they may say they'll do it.. but it's a lot of work and they won't believe how many shingles they have to handle and dry..White Cedar is a 16 inch shingle so the max exposure is 5".. you lay out your shingles with a story pole so you will hit the sill line and the head casing line of your windows and doors...so the exposure will vary between 4.5 and 5"..red cedars are NOT cape cod... and they will not weather or stain to look like cape cod...that said.. there are a lot of houses being built on the cape that use red cedar.. but they are not cape cod vernacular...capes often had painted clapboard fronts and the other 3 sides would be shingled (cheap yankees)...there is no REASON TO LET THEM WEATHER before you stain them.. they will only get blotchy and discolor depending on the sun exposure..cedar should never be left untreated if you are going to stain or paint it...the only way you can duplicate the grey shades of the cape are to duplicate the enviornment of the cape.. (latitude, longitude, sun angles, salt air, stingy overhangs... ) and you can't so you have to stain the shingles to duplicate the effect...b but hey, whadda i no ?

1. 
   piffin_ | Jul 10, 2001 05:29am | #4

   *2nd what he said...you done well tonite mike

1. 
   Skip_Keith | Jul 10, 2001 06:10am | #5

   *Jim The Cedar Shake and Shingle Bureau (www.cedarbureau.org) has a real good info packet if you are new to shakes and shingles. Mike gave you some good info to, keep us posted as you get nearer, have selected your material, and settled on the layout.There have been a few earlier discussions with some tips to make the job easier and faster ("mo money"). good luck, Skip

2. 
   David_Thomas | Jul 10, 2001 06:53pm | #6

   *"is (sic) there historic standards?" In really old clapboard installation (>200 years ago), the best carpenters would decrease the reveal towards the top of the wall, smoothly transitioning to narrower and narrower boards. I'm not sure if that was done with shingles on a vertical surface. Is using shingles on a vertical surface a newer (last 100 years) style? Anyway, decreasing the reveal with height make the wall look a bit a taller and much better proportioned. It is also good pratice in laying out a tall bookshelf. -David

3. 
   Mike_Smith | Jul 10, 2001 08:20pm | #7

   *david... i was taught that the clapboards were installed with narrow reveal at the bottom say 1" gradually expanding to to full reveal of about 3.5" by the time they hit the window sills.. the explanation was that the boards in the splash zone got more weather...

4. 
   Mongo_ | Jul 11, 2001 03:43am | #8

   *Agreed...and in many locales it was usually done just on the front and back of the house, not on the gable walls. Reason? Like Mike wrote, for weathering. With no gutters, the runoff on the front and back of the house would give off quite a splash, causing premature weathering to the lower courses of claps.Good posts, Mike.

5. 
   jim_sterling | Jul 11, 2001 03:24pm | #9

   *Thanks for all the posts, it's been of much help... one main question I have as I move ahead is: 1. should I face the sheathing with housewrap or 30lb felt paper? and 2. Are horizontal furring strips necessary, for air movement, or can I direct nail over the sheathing? This will determine my cornerboard thickness. Also, I may have miss directed you on the style. There are very few true Capes in the flatlands here, but this home is being converted to bring in cues from the Cape style (i.e. 12/12 roofline on a single story , cedar shingles and clapboard siding.) They also do not want the typical gray and white color scheme. The clapboards will be white with white trim and they want to intermix a shingle with natural or warm stain tones on the gable ends. What tone will red cedar naturally age to and is it advised without a sealant?

6. 
   Mike_Smith | Jul 11, 2001 04:56pm | #10

   *red cedar will weather to a non-descript blotchy pattern....from dark brown to black...the only way you can get the color youwant with natural wood is to color it.. .. unless you can make sure that ALL of the siding will have the same exposure to the elements....use whatever you want for paper...we use 15# felt...you are not in a rain forest enviornment like the pacific northwest .. so the furring is probably overkill......

7. 
   David_Thomas | Jul 11, 2001 09:22pm | #11

   *Mike: I agree with you on the weatherproofing aspect of *modern* siding and the advantage of more overlap (not, strictly, less reveal). My reference on the larger reveals towards the bottom was one of Eric Sloane's books. Of course 200 to 300 years ago, siding was irregular width, so overlap was independent of reveal. Wider boards with wider reveals and overlaps at the bottom and narrower boards at the top. Yielding both weatherproofing and a proportioned appearance. -David

8. 
   bill_d. | Jul 18, 2001 07:35pm | #12

   *Jim Sterling IF you seal the backside of the shingle then seal the exposed side also otherwise each face will react differently to moisture and cause stress on the shingle. Also furring strips might be over kill on side wall shingles, but I have seen A LOT of shingles fail without it. You might use a product called CEDER BREATHER it is a nylon mesh that comes in rolls 3' wide covers about 2 sq. I've made and installed many shingles to repair/replace(including George Washington's Mount Vernon) those on roofs and side walls and most of those failed due to not" breathing" properly. agree it depends on climate but you'll get twice the life from your shingles. One more thing and then I'll stop remember that ceder shingles like any other wood will require so maintence.Good Luck. Bill D. Quality Wood Chips on the shores of the Chesapeake Bay.

2. 
   jim_sterling | Jul 18, 2001 07:35pm | #13

   *
   I am adding Cedar Shingle Siding to an homeowners addition. There are so many opinions on the proper installation. Who can help? What should be the correct underlayment, (house wrap or felt)? The home owners want the shingles to age before top finishing, should I seal the back sides first before installing? What should I top coat with once aged? Is the exposure height all a personal opinion, or is there historic standards (5 1/4" , 6" etc.)? Specs for proper shingle ordering? Any help or links would be great so I do this job once and right. thanks.