Replies

1. 
   JDRHI | Oct 06, 2006 06:43am | #1

   I still hand nail all my cedar shakes.

   Don't like staples at all....seen too many problems.

   J. D. Reynolds

   Home Improvements

2. 
   ringshank | Oct 06, 2006 08:21am | #2

   i use staples...1 1/4 inch stainless steel...i set the drive on my portercable gun as low pressure/depth as i can get away with...

   i always go back each row and drive them tight with me hammer...hand driving i guess is always better ...ive not seen problems with staples but i havent been around for 35 years..

   sometimes i will put 4 staples in the wider shingles ...2 mostly

3. 
   TomMGTC | Oct 06, 2006 03:02pm | #3

   Bostitch N66C1 coil siding nailer. Stainless steel ring shank nails.

   I just did this and the gun worked great. Has a very easy to use depth adjustment. I nailed them just proud of the shingle with the gun and then set them by hand. Worked great and doesn't split the shingles. I was using red cedar.

   Tom

   Douglasville, GA

   
   

   ---

   Edited 10/6/2006 8:18 am ET by TomW

4. 
   Piffin | Oct 06, 2006 03:36pm | #4

   Staples is the worst way.
   Hand nailing is the best

   The principle is that you do not want to damage the grain of the wood, or it will split over time as stresses from the weather amke the wood move. A nail set too deep will have already begun the split, so you hand nail to leave the head just snug on the surface without penetrating it.

   Most stapels damage the wood grain all the way across the length of the ccrown.

   a gun that does not have good depth control is as bad as a staple IMO.

    

    

   Welcome to the
   Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime.
    where ...
   Excellence is its own reward!

1. 
   davidmeiland | Oct 06, 2006 04:56pm | #5

   Not sure why you would say staples are worst. It is very easy to do a great job with staples if you know what is needed. It would be easy to ruin shingles with a nail gun, or nailing by hand, if you don't. I've done it all three ways.

1. 
   Piffin | Oct 06, 2006 05:17pm | #6

   read what I already wrote one more time and you'll see why I think staples are worst.I agree that a hack can ruin them with any of the three, that's why I explained the principle behind it all, so the OP can decide for himself what and how to do it. 

    

   Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!

1. 
   davidmeiland | Oct 06, 2006 07:00pm | #7

   Hmmm. My stapler has better depth drive control than my siding nailer. Some of it has to do with operator technique, but the stapler has an adjustable tab on the tip that absolutely prevents overdriving. You can set it so that it lays the staple right on the surface without crunching fibers. With the nailer you need to get 'in the zone' and relax your arm just right. Takes me about ten nails to get there.

1. 
   Piffin | Oct 06, 2006 09:23pm | #8

   Well then, tell us again which brand of each you are using!;)I admnitt the machinery has come a long way in 35 years 

    

   Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!

5. 
   NickNukeEm | Oct 06, 2006 09:30pm | #9

   Stainless steel ringshanks with a siding gun. 

    

   "I am the master of my fate, I am the captain of my soul."  Invictus, by Henley.

1. 
   driftwood | Oct 07, 2006 08:18am | #10

   staples havnt been around long enough for me to really know if they are crap..sure i would say that hand nailing is the best way...but when your looking at a 40 square house with two guys hand nailing can take much more time...expessually for a rookie setter..do we have photos of two 20 year products one hand nailed one stapled in the same weather conditions? i will look around to see if i can find some..

6. 
   toolpouchguy | Oct 07, 2006 02:40pm | #11

   I have put on millions of cedar shingles not shakes shingles i use a wide crown bostich stapler .never had a single problem the staples stay just above the surface not over driven.

   it is great when you have to weave corners nails will split the shingle in some cases stapler does not. and when you use (Benjamine-Obdyke Home 16 slicker) behind shingles nails are very difucult to set properly  just my obsevation and only 2 staples per shingle no more .

1. 
   driftwood | Oct 08, 2006 08:15am | #12

   two staples for red cedar?what if some of the shingles are 12-15 inches wide?

1. 
   Piffin | Oct 08, 2006 01:24pm | #13

   Still two per.Ever read the recomendations from the cedar institue or the label? Always two per 

    

   Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!

1. 
   TomMGTC | Oct 08, 2006 03:34pm | #16

   I can't beleive I'm going to disagree with Piffin but both the cedar bureau and the label on the box (at least the boxes i have) say to use 4 fasteners per shingle on 10" or wider shingles.

   http://www.cedarbureau.org/installation/wall_manual/page05.htm

   Nails

   Each Certi-label™ Western Cedar shingle or shake should be applied with two corrosion-resistant fasteners, such as stainless steel (type 304 or 316), hot-dipped zinc coated, or aluminum nails or other fastener as accepted by your local building official. Minimum nail lengths are shown in the fastener chart below. In double course applications, the exposed Certi-label™ Western Cedar shingle or shake shall be face-nailed with two hot-dipped galvanized or stainless steel casing nails, driven 2" above the butt line, and 3/4" from each edge. Certi-label™ Western Cedar shingles wider than 10" require 2 additional nails and these two nails are driven approximately 1" apart near the center of the shingle. View Image

   View Image

    

   Staples Staples should be aluminum or stainless steel (type 304 or 316) 16 gauge or other fastener as accepted by your local building official. Two staples should be driven per Certi-label™ Western Cedar shingle or shake with the staple crowns 7/16" minimum horizontal, maximum 3/4" horizontal, to the Certilabel Western Cedar shingle or shake butt. Staples are driven in the same location as nails relative to the sides and overlapping butt line. Certi-label™ Western Cedar shingles wider than 10" require 2 additional staples and these two staples are driven approximately 1" apart near the center of the shingle. Tom

   Douglasville, GA

1. 
   Piffin | Oct 08, 2006 03:49pm | #17

   Well, thanks humbly for that corretion, but I will swear that is a change in the last ten years or so...I have never seen any reason for the extra nails though. The only time I've seen wide shingle billow up in center is when they get laid too tight with their neighbors and then the moisture absoption swells them all.The photo showing nail head depth is vital for anyone laying cedars to understand 

    

   Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!

2. 
   seeyou | Oct 08, 2006 05:14pm | #18

   >>>>I will swear that is a change in the last ten years or so...It is a change and it's probably less years than that.FWIW, I always cull "bedsheets" (anything over 10" wide) and cut my hip and ridge caps from them. 

   "Let's go to Memphis in the meantime, baby" - John Hiatt.

   http://grantlogan.net/

3. 
   Sphere | Oct 08, 2006 05:31pm | #19

   Look again at that picture , it says NOT for sidewall application.

   The nail ing in the center, I mean.

    

   EDIT: ohhh, it says info not for sidewall PANELS, I guess that means the premade ones?

   Spheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks

   " If ya plan to face tomorrow, do it soon"

   Edited 10/8/2006 10:34 am ET by Sphere

4. 
   TomMGTC | Oct 08, 2006 05:36pm | #20

   No, it says not for sidewall panel installations. The section of the manual that I cut and pasted is for sidewall applications.

   Tom

   Douglasville, GA

   Hey you edited while I was posting this, no fair.

   Edited 10/8/2006 10:37 am ET by TomW

5. 
   Sphere | Oct 08, 2006 05:43pm | #21

   LOL.

   Still, if I have a run of Fatties, I either set em aside for valley / hips or if no vally/ hips and the ridge is laid as per sideways, I split the fatties to fill in where two ends may meet in the middle.

   I rarely apply walls so, I guess if I were, 4 nailing a fattie is better there, than on a roof. The walls see less water, generally speaking.

   Spheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks

   " If ya plan to face tomorrow, do it soon"

6. 
   TomMGTC | Oct 08, 2006 06:03pm | #22

   I'm certainly no expert on shingle installation, I've just done a lot of reading and research about it in the last year so the cedar bureau specs were pretty fresh in my mind.

   All of my shingle experience can be seen on this house. A lot of fun to do and i'm very happy with the results. It does have one corner where the shingles aren't woven properly but its pretty sheltered and well flashed so I don't think it will be an issue. I decided to leave it and chaulk it up to a learning experience. I'll keep an eye on it and fix it if it looks like it may be an issue. Still have about 10 boxes to go on the front facing the water but it's all under the porch so no hurry there. 

   View ImageTom

   Douglasville, GA

7. 
   Sphere | Oct 08, 2006 10:48pm | #23

   Looks sweet from here.

   Like I said, I have done a lot more on roofs than walls, the last wall job was about ten yrs ago, I hand nailed with 4d galvy box nails, close to 30 sq IIRC.

   I prefer roofs.

   Spheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks

   " If ya plan to face tomorrow, do it soon"

8. 
   seeyou | Oct 09, 2006 12:09am | #25

   How'd the re-inaction go? 

   "Let's go to Memphis in the meantime, baby" - John Hiatt.

   http://grantlogan.net/

9. 
   Sphere | Oct 09, 2006 12:57am | #26

   Smokin!

   Here....

   http://forums.taunton.com/n/mb/message.asp?webtag=tp-breaktime&msg=79745.1

   Spheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks

   " If ya plan to face tomorrow, do it soon"

10. 
    driftwood | Oct 12, 2006 08:16am | #27

    are the for nails for sidewall application ?
    the tags that come on our bundles are from the CSB too
    but they just talk about roofing with cedar shingles not sidewalling...2 per
    and say you must use a keyway( gap between shingle)...i never leave a gap for sidwall

11. 
    TomMGTC | Oct 12, 2006 02:20pm | #28

    Yes the section printed out is for sidewall application. I beleive red cedar needs to be gapped ofr sidewalls as well. White cedar is usually not dry here (NH) when installed and can be installed tight as it will shrink when dried.Tom

    Douglasville, GA

2. 
   toolpouchguy | Oct 08, 2006 02:57pm | #14

   Still 2 per no more.

7. 
   macmillan | Oct 08, 2006 03:16pm | #15

   Tis true, the care of the operator has a lot to do with it regardless of the method used, and there are many opinions. Having opened up a lot of different peoples work (much of it not that old) to repair problems, I am not able to express my opinion of staples in language that would be postable here. Piffin said it well, and definitely ONLY two fasteners per shingle. Good luck finding your method of choice.

8. 
   woodguy99 | Oct 08, 2006 11:20pm | #24

   Here on the coast I've seen non-stainless staples rust away in just a few years, but that's probably not a problem for you.  Something else to consider though is that if you or anyone ever needs to patch anything, like if a window is replaced or you add an addition, it is much easier to remove and weave in new shingles if the originals were nailed.  The nails will come out with a shingle ripper, but staples usually just break off.