Hey everyone,
Last night I installed a ceiling fan in a room I have been refinishing, and when I fired it up, the thing was swinging, so I shut it off and called it a night.
The ceiling is brand new. I tore out an old drop ceiling, or I should say I took down a whole bunch of those stapled on 12″ x 12″ tiles that were stapled onto a dropped ceiling structure.
As part of that existing structure there was a 2×4 that went pretty much across the center of the room so I mounted a westinghouse ceiling fan box that was rated for the weight to the side of that stud.
This fan has a hanging system where you install a brass colored piece to the fan ceiling box with 2 bolts and then the fan hangs from one side of the brass piece while you connect the wires then it swings up over the brass piece and you install 2 set screws into the sides. This may be a standard mounting practice but I’m not sure.
I wired everything and then closed the ceiling. The fan I put up was a pretty basic 52″ hunter fan w a light kit. when I hung the fan, to my dismay, there was like a 1/4″ gap between the ceiling and the part of the fan that covers the wires and goes up against the ceiling (proper terminology escapes me)
It is in no danger of falling down, as the mounting system is rated fro the weight, and i can live with the gap because the ceilings are 9′-3″ and it’s not very noticable unless you know it’s there (must have been my miscalculation, I put the face of the box flush with the ceiling but in retrospect it probably should have been recessed)
So now the fan is installed and it wobbles, more like swings from side to side. I watched and I can see that the gap at the ceiling teh fan is moving, but IMO If the thing was tight to the ceiling and that stopped the woppling wouldn’t that really be just a superficial solution to an underlying problem. I think it would still swing anyway as it has a small rod between the fan housing and teh ceiling flange, and this rog is allowed to swing independant of the ceiling portion.
What I mean is, fans are not supposed to wobble by design, right. The ceiling material should not have to come into play in terms of stopping fan wobble, right? As long as its hung securely, the fan is not dangerous even with the small barely noticable gap
Should the fan need balancing out of the box? Do I have a bad fan?
Is the gap my problem, or should it not be an issue?
Can I easily balance the fan, and solve my issue.
How do you balance a fan?
Edited 1/13/2006 9:44 am ET by xosder11
Edited 1/13/2006 9:48 am ET by xosder11
Replies
I'd think a Hunter fan should be pretty well balanced out of the box, but I suppose they can't all be perfect. I have a cheapo ceiling fan in my living room; I experimented with taping pennies to the top side of the blades until I got a combination that worked well. It took a while but at least it didn't cost me very much.
If it's swinging and not just wobbling, something was installed wrong.
I'd suggest taking the fan down and looking at how each blade was mounted to the motor. Something there must be out of whack.
If it isn't you could try re-installing the fan without the blades on. Then run the motor and see if there's any wobble. If the motor alone wobbles, then the fan would be defective.
Hunter is a good brand, so I doubt the thing is defective.
I guess it depends what your definition is of either swinging or wobbling. I wish I had a video handy I could post. As I mentioned, I think the gap at the ceiling facillitates the wobbling, (we'll call it wobbling) but I don't think its the cause of the problem.. I think if I get the fan properly balanced then the gap should not be an issue because the fan is, in fact, hung securely. Like I said, if it were tighter to the ceiling, it may wobble less, but I'm sure it would still wobble, and I would think that over time things would still loosen up as a result of the forces that my ceiling was constantly resisting as a result.I would think that a fan should be so balanced that you could hang it from a piece of rope (hypothetically) and it would not swing, or am I just wrong about that?
Edited 1/13/2006 10:34 am ET by xosder11
You shouldn't have to rely on the ceiling to keep the fan from wobbling. If it were perfectly balanced it would spin flat.
If it wobbles as badly as you say, make sure you installed all of the blades :)
"When asked if you can do something, tell'em "Why certainly I can", then get busy and find a way to do it." T. Roosevelt
check the packaging...the last hunter fan i installed during the summer came with a balancing kit. I didn't need it but it was there.
I used to sell and install Hunter fans. The 52" blades often have weight differences between them. We used to weigh them (postal scales) and add tape to the tops to heavy the light ones up. Sometimes the blades can be warped. check for that. Running the unit w/o the blades (as mentioned)is a good idea to eliminate choices.
Birth, school, work, death.....................
http://grantlogan.net/
Wasn't sure if running w no blades was ok. I'll try that.
I do have one blade with a wrinkle in the lamination that I was going to exchange. Would you reccomend weighing them if I can get access to a postal scale.Where do you add weight to the blades beginning middle or end or is it case specific.
could you tell me a little about how I should go about balancing the unit?
Will balancing fix a severe wobble?
Even a big wobble can come from a balance problem. Hunter fans are usually packaged with a small strip of weights, adhesive backed. The easiest way to decide where to place the weight is to randomly attach a spring-type clothes pin and move it in and out, from blade to blade, until you hit the right spot.
I did this once at an old ladies house and just astounded the stew out of both of us. The fan wobbled like crazy at any speed. Now, I'm 6' 7", so I do work like this flat footed ! I asked her if she had a clothes pin, reached up and clipped it on, we hit the switch, and it was perfectly smooth, first try. In this application, I just left the clothes pin in place, and she was happy as a lark !
Greg
All the blades should weigh the same. You'll need a postal scale or something fairly acurate. Add weight to the lighter blades (some one mentioned a balancing kit included in the box). We used to use a heavy tape to add to the top of the blades.Birth, school, work, death.....................
http://grantlogan.net/
I'd appreciate your advice on Hunter ceiling fans for 2 bedrooms here in hot Tucson, AZ. Do you still think Hunter (made in you know where) is a good brand?? Can you recommend a few models?? thanks, Tuna
So far (knock on wood), I haven't had a bad Hunter fan. They remain my fan of choice. I'm planning on installing 3 more in the current house.
jt8
"The difference between greatness and mediocrity is often how an individual views a mistake..."-- Nelson Boswell
The fan that I started this thread about was, I believe, defective. I think the motor was out of balance, which I know is rare. None-the-less, I had to put 7 weights to balance the fan and finally decided that was not right and took it down and returned it. Without changing any of the mounting setup, I installed a new identical fan, turned it on, and it was the straightest spinning fan I have ever seen.
Go figure
I started a thread about fans a while ago, but it died. Since you like fans, can I get your advice? What do you think of the idea of mounting a fan at the head of a stairwell to push warm air down to the main floor during heating season? (This is in a story-and-a-half cabin, largely heated by wood or a Monitor stove.)
of the idea of mounting a fan at the head of a stairwell to push warm air down to the main floor during heating season?
You'll get some air mixing, to be sure. The catch will be will you need a high enough fan speed (to conteract the rising warm air's "lift") that the fan chills people using the stairs?
The "trick" of it is that most ceiling fans are not that efficient at moving air in any sort of volume. Now, there's something to be said for using a broad fan at low speed to keep air mixed, so there're fewer "trapped" pockets of "stale" air (which can happen with stairwells). So, it's still a good thing to do, I'm just not sure you need to actually reverse the fan direction.
Now, adding a recirculating duct with a nice quiet squirrel-cage blower in a wall cavity, one that draws from the lowest first floor level and then circulates that cooler air up in the top of the upper air column--that might have some more immediate effect. Or not. Conditioned air can be fickle like that.Occupational hazard of my occupation not being around (sorry Bubba)
I'm not a ceiling fan expert, but my WAG would be that it wouldn't work. A ceiling fan gives you a certain zone around the fan that it circulates air. Beyond that zone it doesn't have much effect. Seems like a reach to think it is going to push air back down a flight of steps. Some kind of air return ductwork would probably work better.
You might try Hunter's website and see if they have any info. You might also be able to email their customer service.
My typical installation for a ceiling fan is to put the fans in close proximity to where the people will be.
jt8
"The difference between greatness and mediocrity is often how an individual views a mistake..."-- Nelson Boswell
Edited 5/3/2006 5:31 pm by JohnT8
Tuna,
Despite the incident that ignited this thread, I would still reccomend and buy Hunter products. They are great fans and very quiet. It is my impression that most of the models are using the same motor and the same parts, just with different styles and finishes.
What Seeyou said.
However its a seldom anymore with a Hunter. Straight edge the blades and postal scales sets perfect balance unless theres somthing wrong with the fan or the installation.
TIM
Edited 1/13/2006 10:26 am by Mooney
There are many things that can cause this. I will rule out loose blade hanger or hangers. Blades can be out of track as well as out of balance. Get on a ladder and slowly rotate the fan while measuring distance to the ceiling. You can correct a slightly bent hanger. One or more blades may be out of camber, in other words have more or less pitch. That could be from a twist in a blade or the hanger iron.
And as said by others it could be a balance issue. All fans I have seen in a very long time have the packet with a clip that looks like a U. Pick a blade, put it on about half the length of the blade. I usually put it on then leading edge, can't fling it off as easy. See if it gets worse or better. If worse move to opposite (or nearly opp. for 5 blade). Trial and error. Many I have installed have a weight label on them and they should all read the same. The amount does not matter.
Can fine tune when you find the offending (or most offending) blade. Do this by moving inboard or outboard to see which is better. Place the supplied weight at same distance. You can further tune by seing if it is better with the weight on leading or trailing edge.
I used to make my living making the larger upside down versions of these fly smooth, helicopters.
Try this, pick a point on the ceiling at the end of one blade, hold your tape against the ceiling and rotate each blade to the tape. You may find that one of the brackets is bent!
I'll add that those little balancing kits work great. I just put in a new fan, and it wobbled a fair bit when on high speed. I followed the instructions on the balancing kit, and in a few minutes the operation was perfectly smooth. Using any sort of small clip and some tape would likely also work fine,
Ken
A few other things come to mind....Do you by any chance have a ceiling hugger that you installed a downrod to? The Ceiling huggers have about a 1/4" gap between the shroud and the ceiling.
Is the fan blowing air UP (instead of down)? If it is, the blast off of the ceiling will make it wobble all over the place if it is too close and going too fast.
Are you sure you have the ball on the mount installed properly so that the pin is in the groove?
Just hung 2 Hunter "Originals" - heavywieght cast iron puppies, you think the weight alone would hold 'em still. Was no easy way to balance them, just the old trial and error method. In fact had to give up on the five blade set up and step down to 4 blades per. You could try swapping out a couple of adjacent blades.
Let's not confuse the issue with facts!
You could try swapping out a couple of adjacent blades.
That's a trick I forgot - good call.
Birth, school, work, death.....................
http://grantlogan.net/
Thanks for all the help. I will try what has been suggested
Let us know what ends up being the solution, would ya? Maybe we'll all learn something from it.
The denunciation of the young is a necessary part of the hygiene of older people, and greatly assists in the circulation of the blood [Logan Pearsall Smith]
BTW, in my haste I accidently only replied to seeyou, however that thank-you was intended to go out to all responders, so thanks again.I will be using a balancing hit from hunter that has squares of a heavy lead tape of some sort and a clip that I imagine weighs exactly the same as the lead squares.Hunter recommends that first you switch two opposite blades and see if that makes it better or worse.then, from their you take the clip and put it on each blade near the middle and see which blade yeilds the best result.then you are supposed to move the clip up and down the offending blade till you find the best spot. Then adhere teh heavy tape and your done!hopefully it will be that simple. I will let you know.Before doing that I will run w/ no blades to ensure the motor is balanced.
Here's my two cents:
About a year ago I tried to balance a fan that could not be run on high due to the wobble. I tried a balance kit that came with another fan, as this one had been installed by someone else. I tried moving it from one blade to another. I tried moving the blades around. I nearly gave up.
I then took all of the blades off, and went to the nearby hardware store, which also runs a grain elevator. They had a scale that weighed in grams. All of the blades were within a couple of grams of each other, except one. It was 20 or 30 grams lighter than the other blades. I then picked up some washers that were nearly the same weight as the difference in the blade. Tried one of them, and it helped some. Ended up adding about twice the difference to that one blade before I could get it to run fairly smooth. I positioned them on the top side with an exterior grade double-sided tape, near where the arm attached.
Hope this helps.
Bryan"Objects in mirror appear closer than they are."
Klakamp Construction, Findlay, Ohio