I know this is a regional thing but i’ll ask anyway.
I’m in SE Mi and have to put together an estimate for both 12×12 fiber ceiling tiles and a drop ceiling. Both rooms are under 400 sq ft.
I just dont install this enough to have a fair labor price. For the fiber i’m guessing about $1.50 / sq ft and for the drop i’m figuring about $2-3 / sqft. Am I close with these numbers?
The straping is existing for the fiber tile.
Any help would be appreceiated.
Thanks
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Replies
Sorry, bro; this is a non-starter. I can't even give you an estimate of hours for you to recalc at your own rate to get a $/SF since I can't see the room. All I can do is tell you what elements I'd consider when working it out for myself. You're gonna have to take it from there.
Drop ceilings go up real fast...
OTOH, you can do staple-up 12x12's alone, especially if the furring is already up, but it will take at least twice as long to put up as a 2x2 or 2x4 drop. And if the room isn't square, or if the furring wanders, it'll take three times as long. And if you have to do any levelling or flattening, you gotta pry the furring loose and stick in shims.
Plus all that, the tiles are a PITA to cut (best way I've found is to cut 'em good-side up on a TS; knife takes too long and dulls too quickly); the tongues bust off easily; and unless you've got one of those electric T-50s, your forearms'll be screaming atcha long before lunch....
Dinosaur
How now, Mighty Sauron, that thou art not brought
low by this? For thine evil pales before that which
foolish men call Justice....
I understand all the nuances you've described. The rooms are square and there is not much to work around.
My problem is that i'm not sure on my sq ft prices cause I just dont do this enough.
The last drop ceiling I did was about 500 square feet; if memory serves we did that in under 18 man-hours with a crew of two. I can't give you any reliable figures on 12x12's; it's been many years since I did a staple-up. I try real hard to sell the client on something else.
I assume you know how much you need to make per hour so you don't go broke. Do the arithmatic backwards from there. But whatever your first estimate of the time you think it'll take you is, DOUBLE IT. Murphy's Rule 1 of Estimating....
Dinosaur
How now, Mighty Sauron, that thou art not broughtlow by this? For thine evil pales before that whichfoolish men call Justice....
I know what it takes to not go broke, but in this economic climate there is a thin line between living and a (perceived) ripoff and making nothing.
The 12x12's were the last choice. The problem is that this is a workout room in a short basement and some of the machines literally scrape the 12x12 ceiling that is currently in there so drop is not an option in that room.
The last worry here is that these people own 45 rentals so they are used to paying very cheap rates. I'm not trying to complete with that but once again I feel like i'm on a fine line here.
...this is a workout room in a short basement and some of the machines literally scrape the 12x12 ceiling that is currently in there so drop is not an option in that room.
The minimum drop I've been able to get away with is about 2½", but that was using flexible (pressed FG with vinyl facing) 4x2 panels. And it was still a lot of farting around to get the panels in, but we did it.
Those FG panels are pretty inexpensive; IIRC they went for under a buck a piece or less than 12½ cents per sf. And you only need half as many 2-foot T-rails as with 2x2's so you save a bit more there.
Another advantage of the FG panels is they don't chip as easily if somebody dings them. That could be a good thing in a workout room with a low overhead.
...so they are used to paying very cheap rates. I'm not trying to complete with that....
Good, because you probably can't. People who do most or all of their work for low-end rental owners specialise in fast, cheap, and cheaper. If you haven't got a previous relationship with these people, my gut feeling is your bid is gonna get received with that practised, wide-eyed 'You gotta be kidding!' look.
(My other gut feeling is you're probably not charging for the estimate, so don't waste too much of your time on it.)
Dinosaur
How now, Mighty Sauron, that thou art not broughtlow by this? For thine evil pales before that whichfoolish men call Justice....
Sorry to say that around here, at least for a job this size no one will pay for an estimate.
The workout room is getting the 12x12's not the drop ceiling. There is no way, no how, not gonna happen, room for a drop ceiling.
The drop ceiling is going in another room in the basement and I was thinking that 3" from the joists would be as high as I could hang it.
Good luck with it.
Dinosaur
How now, Mighty Sauron, that thou art not broughtlow by this? For thine evil pales before that whichfoolish men call Justice....
Keep in mind I'm an acoustical contractor and I buy direct from Armstrong. In fact Our driver is unloading a 40 tractor trailer now full of tile. 12" x 12" staple up is running about $1.25/ SF direct.ML
Mark, if the basement is open joisted, you probably can get closer than 3". It is possible because you get to use the open space above the joists to get the tiles up above the grid before you slide them along into place. One key to getting the job done efficiently is to eliminate as many wires as possible until the tiles are in place. Then go back and add a few till it's solid. Also, be careful to get the wires hanging as close to possible over the grid hole that they will attach too. Angled wires on tight installs are a pain.I agree with your half day installation time but that won't include the time it takes to acquire the materials and clean up. Bob's next test date: 12/10/07
True on the time frame but we have about a week there. Over the whole job we will do okay.
I presented the estimate today, The lady said I came in almost exactly where she thought I would and she would talk to her husband tonight.
We'll get it up as high as possible 3" is just a "worst case" to tell the HO.
Family.....Their always there when they need you.
Thanks for the advise guys. I took into account what you suggested and I think we'll do okay on the overall job pricewise.
Family.....Their always there when they need you.
As a prior t-bar guy I can answer this one. 2x4 lay- in will go for about $3.00+/ SF on the west coast. 400 SF square room you should be able to do it in under 12 hrs. (At least if you want to stay employed as a Union acoustical guy) As for the 12 x 12 is it staple up or glue up?
Ml
Edited 7/30/2008 9:21 pm by MSLiechty
The 12x12 will be more than likely stapled up.
I was thinking we should be able to install the drop ceiling in about 4-5 hours at most.
Does the three / ft include materials?
Yes. Material will run about $.90/ SF for commercial grade Armstong 2x2 square edge lay- in tile. including the grid/ wires/ wall angle etc.One person should be able to run bout 400 SF a day complete, if it's square and not too cut up.ML
Thanks the material I found was closer to $2.25/ft. I think I get the picture though.
Going from what you and Dinosaur said sounds like I need to bring the cost up a little more cause I may be spending more time on this ceiling than I thought.