Hi,
We are building a home in about 6 months and have a few questions for experienced builders.
Question #1 – Has anyone had any good or bad experiences with cement siding. My husband is concerned about all the caulking which must be kept up. What brand do you reccomend?
Question #2 – Do you reccomend any vynal siding? Any good or bad experiences. What brand do you reccomend?
Thank You, LAS
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Replies
Well, I'm not an experienced builder. I'm an engineer who knows something about building. Four years ago I worked with a general contractor to build a home for myself, so here's my experience even though it's limited.
I used Hardie Shingle fiber cement siding. I absolutely love it. It's practically indestructable. It took paint exceptionally well, and, being curious about the durability, I inspected the siding closely every few months. There has not been the tiniest speck of an area with any degradation of the paint. The siding was finished exactly as recommended: pressure washing, 100% acrylic primer, followed by two (or more) coats of 100% acrylic house paint.
I followed the caulking sequence recommended by others (not the manufacturer -- they didn't have one) of priming first, then caulking, then applying the top coats. Siliconized acrylic latex was used.
Caulking falls out of old houses because the wood has a lot of movement with changes in moisture, which fiber cement doesn't have, or because the surface to which it is applied is not durable (such as paint which itself comes loose from the siding). My judgement is that caulking should work better with this material than most people's experience with wood.
From my experience I would not hesitate to recommend fiber cement from an appearance or durability standpoint. However, you'll find out that the cost difference is huge. Vinyl is about the least expensive material you can use; fiber cement is one of the most expensive.
Good luck. You're in for a fun time!
As a builder, I agree with all you say, except for the expense part. Fiber Cement siding is pretty competitive costwise with most siding materials. You used the Hardie shingle, which is a little pricey, but if you compare it with a good quality WRC shingle that's been dried and backprimed, I think the FC shingle will win out, especially long term, as you pointed out, with its durability.
When considering FC horizontal siding, I've found it to have the virtues you described and costwise, it is hands down more economical than any decent wood siding I'm aware of. (saying this is a little tough 'cause I've always been a wood guy, having worked in the PNW timber industry for a lot of years and lived my life in big timber country).
I have very little knowledge and even less interest in vinyl.
Jules Quaver for President 2004
hey notch, what kind of total pricing (matl and labor) for Hardie FC siding are we talking about? thanks!
The last FC siding job I did was a facelift with new Anderson windows, a new porch and sidewalk, added a watertable above foundation, a couple of new doors, etc.
Job also included removing existing horizontal 8" shiplap beveled clear Doug fir, which had never been backprimed and wouldn't hold paint...some was rotten behind gutters. (This is In the PNW just a couple of miles from the coast).
The job was bid and I'm reluctant to break out the labor because each job is different and this one involved some HO requested add-ons along the way.
So I'll put it in a time perspective, once the old siding was removed, the new windows installed and trimmed, etc. (The house is roughly 70' X 40' and sits on a slope with a 3 car garaqe and family room on the lower level, backside. Required some creative scaffolding in places, removal of some outdoor lighting and some outdoor plumbing fixtures).
Installing siding took a helper and me 4 full days.
There are a lot of windows in this house which cut down some on overall surface area. I used one unit plus 20 pieces of 8" exposure siding. Total cost of siding to me was just over $1300.
Following pics show front of house after windows installed, but prior to pouring new sidewalk, porch and installing siding.
Second pic shows siding installed, prior to paint and new gutters and porch rails.
(There's an extra pic in there I can't get rid of...the 1st one I think. Oh well)Jules Quaver for President 2004
OK, I see what I did. I was trying to clean up one photo (the HO had sent it email and the resolution was poor...). Hope you get the idea...
I've been able to delete unwanted attachments in the past before I posted...couldn't figure it out this time...it's been a hard week.Jules Quaver for President 2004
#1 Fibercement siding is great. Since you are doing a whole house you will be able to get it pre finished. The minimum number of pieces for pre finished is 194. About 14 square. I personally use Certainteed Weather boards. They have 14 pre finished colors and 5 stain colors. The Stain has a 10 year warranty and the paint (2 coat) has a 20 year warranty. The actual product has a 50 year warranty. The wood grain pattern is much more realistic than hardie. Threre composite trim is also a better product. Its a actual 5/4 thickness vs the 3/4" hardie trim. The only bad thing about it is it can be difficult to cut details (light blocks, window sills and aprons) into the siding. There are not a lot of tools that will cut the stuff. Diamond blades are a must and they also have shears that work well too. For the more detailed cuts try a abrasive blade for a jig saw or a hack saw.
#2 Vinyl siding has its place. The actual siding also has a 50 year warranty. Again this is the Certainteed brand. The line I use is Monogram or cedar impressions. The main problem I have with vinyl is the trim. It is so cheap. I always bend my own custom window and door trim. I only use theres for soffitt and gables. It is fairly resistent to cracking. If it gets cold out it will crack much easier if struck. Lots of colors available.
#3 If it were my house I would use fiber cement siding. That or wood shingles.
I am not a pro either - just an owner of a wood house. CONTINUAL maintenance.
My son in law has a 3500 ft2 FC home 5 years old. Loves it - no peel no flake no pop no wood rot no termites.
Lowes here sells FC hardie by the individual piece, pre primed.
i really think the installation of wood on a new house should be some type of crime as the later years problems wood causes are amazing.
Brick is my first choice, FC second.
I love the stuff for all the reasons said... I do use "vulcum caulk" it's $5 a tube but i use the same stuff to hold/seal alum store fronts to brick and 10yrs later you still have to cut it with a razor to get it off... the FC is good for a few reasons... it's so stiff the ends don't have to land on a stud and you don't have to have any exposed nails... nail'n at the top only is ok... I do like to put a 4" strip of 15' felt under the joints/splits... I don't know why just makes me think it's more weather tight... to kick out the first course i use galv. J track for 1/2 drywall... saves a few cents and is fast
I am a professional, plus I have built two homes for myself. I used hardie on both personal houses as well as having worked with it on countless other prejects, and I stress that I would never use anything else. I will not even comment on vinyl, I have already made enemies out of folks that I really like stemming from comments I have made in other discussions on the subject.
Regarding caulk. I used latex on one house, make sure you use a good brand, I always use OSI brand (the proffesional series). "Big stretch" is another decent brand. On the other house I used urethane caulk (NP-1) it is considerably more expensive, but will outlast any latex by much more than the cost difference. If you are hiring a painting contractor, they will hate you for demanding urethane caulk and try to talk you out of it because it is so difficult to work with.( I have always done my own caulking).
Paint. I have done it three different ways. Install everything, then caulk and paint. Paint it first then install then caulk and touch-up. Use the pre-painted stuff then caulk and touch-up. In my experience, the best finished product results from installing first then painting. I wouldn't buy the pre-painted stuff again. It is very expensive, (pretty much double the price of unpainted in my market) and you still have to do a considerable amount of touch-up after it is installed, enough so that there really isn't much savings on painting labor over the unpainted stuff.
In summation, My recomendation is: if you are going to be building a "bridge" or "stepping stone" home that you only plan to be living in for less than 5 years before moving on to something else. Then by all means slap vinyl on it, just get out while the getting out is good. If you are planning to spend a considerable chunk of your life in the house then use hardie plank. Hire a professional painting contractor,(NOT the "starving college guys") Use the best paint that you can find, and spec out urethane caulk. Understand that the painter may charge you more for applying it but it will be worth it in the long run. Good luck with your new home, and keep us updated!
Is there any cost difference between the Hardi Plank and the Certanteed?
Also, does anybody know how many years you can go before you will need to re-paint the Fibercement?
Certainteed has been a little less expensive per plank for me from time to time.
Last Spring I bought one unit of Certainteed @ $4.75 per plank and Hardie was running about $5. There's usually a pretty good price break if you buy either brand in units rather than per piece.
I've read some commentary here about how Certainteed tends to have a more realistic Cedar texture. The difference to me is pretty negligible once it's on a building and painted. But, then, my eyes are not quite as good as they once were.Jules Quaver for President 2004
Regarding paint life.
I can only tell you my own experience, which is to say, the oldest project that I have worked on is about 6 years old, still looks great, no chipping or peeling. Paint is fading a bit, but that's all.
I think fiber cement siding is one of the best innovations I've seen since I started building 30 years ago.
Vynal does have it's place. The landfill.
I have a new testimonial to FC siding that I discovered last weekend: Being a gardener and having some small scraps of the stuff, plus some of the curlicues off the shears, last Spring I threw the small scraps into a small burnpile I use near the garden, hoping that a succession of hot fires would burn out the paper laminates and leave some alkaline cement residue for ph adjustment in the soil.
Since that time, I have indeed had several good fires, followed by some heavy rains. The ash pile was getting a little large so I started shoveling up the debris into a trailer to haul to the local dump.
Lo and behold! The chunks of FC, after enduring a wicked trial by fire and water, were still intact and in pretty good condition so into the trailer they went. I don't think the primer had even burned off! (the curlicues were gone, however).Jules Quaver for President 2004