Cement topper for an asphalt driveway
BlazerGuy
| Posted in Construction Techniques on
Hey yall, just purchased a home with a gravel/caliche type driveway and it’s in need of repair. I was quoted $1/sqft for road base gravel, $2/sqft for asphalt, $2.25/sqft for asphalt with a portland cement “topper”, and $5/sqft for concrete.
The driveway is about 100’x10′ and it’s flat and straight.
I live in central Texas so the temps are above 100 degrees in the summer which is why I don’t know about doing asphalt but I can’t afford the concrete. Has anyone had experience with the cement “topped” asphalt? Thanks
Replies
Nope, never heard of it before.
I thought caliche WAS concrete. ;)
Sounds odd, to put concrete over asphalt. Asphalt "flows", but concrete remains rigid. Seems like a recipe for cracked concrete to me.
The guy said that the cement is poured on top of the asphalt while the tar is still hot and sticky so that they bond better...
Did he say to what extent the concrete gets relief cuts sawn in it? I suppose if it were cut into fairly small sections it wouldn't tend to break up too badly, and it would prevent vehicles from becoming buried up to their hubcaps in the heat.
As I stood before the gates I realized that I never want to be as certain about anything as were the people who built this place. --Rabbi Sheila Peltz, on her visit to Auschwitz
He didn't say but I can ask him tomorrow.
Is he pouring cement or concrete over the asphalt? Big difference.
Hey said it's portland cement. I've never done any concrete or cement work. I can do most anything on a vehicle except a good paint job but now I bought a house so maybe I can cut my teeth on this....I got another quote today for $3.45/sqft for a 4" thick concrete driveway with rebar 16" on center...
>Sounds odd, to put concrete over asphalt<
Major interstate rebuild and widening project near here is doing exactly that for 30 miles. Dig down to redo/establish the base, lay a healthy layer of asphalt and then 6"(?) of CC over that with the usual amounts of rebar you see in I-state projects.
That's a bit different, where the asphalt (often recycled) is used as a base, in place of rock, under a standard thickness of concrete. The OP's situation involves a relatively thin (2" IIRC) layer of concrete -- not enough to avoid cracking under the weight of vehicles.
As I stood before the gates I realized that I never want to be as certain about anything as were the people who built this place. --Rabbi Sheila Peltz, on her visit to Auschwitz
yeah, 2" too thin
man... i don't know how hard you want to work... but being as your drive is only 10ft wide... with just a little bit of help on your flat ground you could form, place and finish it for about 1.50 a sf if you did the work yourself... 10ft wide drive is easy to form... easy to screed... and easy to float, edge, and broom finish...
$3.50 sf to form place & finish (labor) sounds high for texas... pretty sure you could find guys would would form, place & finish it for less than $1sf times being what they are
p
In texas?
I'm pretty sure you could find "helpers" extra cheap. Truckloads of them.
All you have to do is cruise the local employment office, you know, HD parking lot!!
Would you put in rebar?
if it was hard packed earth... no I wouldn't but thats just me... i'd put a joint every 10ft... I might put rebar where the drive hits the road... but thats just me...
p
Others already said it, GO DIY!. Poured some cncrete in IL last week at Mom's house, only $107 a yard there, got it from a truck as dont have a mixer 2000 mi away from me.
1 sq ft at 4" thick (plenty unless you have a loaded semi often) is only .0123455 cu yards (easy number to remember, huh?
So, .012345*107 = $1.32 sq ft, may be lower or higher in Texas.
BTW, see you only have 3 posts, so welcome to BT. Please fill in your profile, click on your name, etc. That way we know how to razz you for starters <G>
Anyway, that is only 13 yards or so total. Last time I did that much was 14 yards solo in one day at a stiff 5 sack mix 2" slump (like mine strong) when I was 52 years old. About a 10 hour day, staggered the deliveries by 5 hours. EDIT2: If you like soup, or satisfied with 2500 psi concrete, get 5" slump and you can be done in 4 hours!!!! Old men take about twice (or more) as long to do 2" slump alone as 5" slump.
Le's see, that works out to ($5-$1.32)*1000sqft = $3680 SAVINGS, TAX free DIY!!!.
Le's say it takes you another day and $130 for bobcat rental and 200 ft of utility 2x4s.
$3530/16hrs = $220.00 per HOUR tax free pay rate - you aint THAT lazy are you. EDIT - or rich, in which case forget the cracked coating fiasco and do solid concrete.
If you are over 70 YO, you could always do it in 3 different 4-5 yard sections over more days.
Alternately, you can buy a used loader or dozer and then have it forever, or a beat up truck to haul stone in .
Me personally, I'd use my own backhoe and dump truck an get 'reclaim' from the yard for $20 a yard, 5 sacks per yard at $9 is 45, so say $70 a yard.
For a couple jobs like yours you can buy a used truck AND bobcat and a 4 cu ft mixer and be cash ahead and have the tools for another day. When I was uner 60 YO, could easily mix over 2 yards an hours just dumping, obviouly slightly longer to finish at the same time.
Edited 10/22/2009 4:11 pm ET by junkhound
Edited 10/22/2009 4:13 pm ET by junkhound
you are freak'n crazy :) I'm pay'n $82 a yard for 4000lb mix... I can't mix it myself for that and have any quality... we have been place'n and form'n for 30-40yards a day... 3 guys and we are stamping the edges (cobblestone look) but that's about the limit for us for a day...
I pay with tax about $9 for 94lb sack of portland... I pay $200 for 20yards of good clean sand delivered ($40 is delivery and i can't haul 20 tons so it saves me $$ to have it delivered 90min round trip) rock i pay $9 a ton... I haul that because it's only 4-5 miles... 9-10 tons is about my limit...i welded up a dump chute bucket for my bobcat... i can go to my rock & sand pile (next to each other) in 5 gallon buckets 4 sand 3 rock and 1 bag of portland is what my mixer will mix well.... with the mixing drum turning and tilted up... i can dump from my dump chute into the mixer... then dump the mixed concrete back into the dump chute bucket... drive it to where it's needed and dump it or in the case of my concrete countertop forms... shovel it into the forms ... still takes me about 30 minutes per batch start to finish... and i think i'm make'n about 1/5th yard or a little more... 3cf mixer but I don't think i can get it to mix well that full
p
Art, hows come none of your job prices ever have any beer money in the deal?
Me personally, I'd use my own backhoe and dump truck an get 'reclaim' from the yard for $20 a yard, 5 sacks per yard at $9 is 45, so say $70 a yard
Splain this; 5 yards of crushed concrete with 5 sacks of portland? That's the mix?
No access to any reclaim here so I'm guessing it's the equilivant of sand and gravel aggregate?
1 sq ft at 4" thick (plenty unless you have a loaded semi often) is only .0123455 cu yards (easy number to remember, huh?
I always figure 4" = 3sq' per cubic ft x 27 = 81sq' yard @ 4", 4sq' per CF @3" = 108sq'. Seems an easier number to remember.
Joe H
Reclaim in Illinois (just asked there last week) and WA is the same term, it is the concrete left in the truck when it gets back with a partial load left, then it is washed and put in a separate pile.
Basically it is the sand/gravel mix with a little cement stuck to some of the gravel, shovels just like regular mix.
Economies of scale: a whole barge full of 'mixings' (1000 tons or more) I could get the sand/gravel/portlanc about $31 yard or less dockside Never have needed that much. <G>
Asphalt wearing surface over concrete is fairly common, never heard of the other way. Sounds like he's selling snake oil. Where in Texas are you?
"Put your creed in your deed." Emerson
"When asked if you can do something, tell'em "Why certainly I can", then get busy and find a way to do it." T. Roosevelt
I can kinda understand it, in order to prevent tires from sinking into the asphalt when the temp hits about 110F.
As I stood before the gates I realized that I never want to be as certain about anything as were the people who built this place. --Rabbi Sheila Peltz, on her visit to Auschwitz
I'm in Bastrop, just east of Austin.
Hey, isn't there someone on BT from the Bastrop area?"Put your creed in your deed." Emerson
"When asked if you can do something, tell'em "Why certainly I can", then get busy and find a way to do it." T. Roosevelt
Hey, isn't there someone on BT from the Bastrop area?
Tom is over there, other side of Camp Swift.
Hiker is in Downtown Austin.
Jim(aka blue) is in Roundrock
Blownonfuel is in San Marcos
There are a few more-read-than-post folk over towards Leander.
If OP can get the existing caliche/gravel drive properly graded and compacted, then the best answer for dust/mud control is 1.5" of asphalt in a single run, this being only one paving box wide. That, and this is likely far enough out in the country to not be able to get a 1.5" macadam job.
But, both of those are hugely dependant on the subgrade preperation. Which means filling in the low spots and getting the entire run graded and compacted. Bastrop is right on the edge of the syncline for precipitation. So, some years they'll get rain like Austin--all of it in 3-4 rains the whole year. other years, it will be like over here, and just rain 2" every month (and the rest of the a mixture of both).Occupational hazard of my occupation not being around (sorry Bubba)
Concrete is $110 a yard here. I'm shocked at Pony tail's price of $85.
Anyway, if you did decide to do DIY, my recommendation would be to call a few concrete companies for prices and ask what the minimum load is without having to pay an upcharge, sometimes called a "short load fee".
Then plan to pour (place) something just over the minimum load. The idea is that concrete can "get away from you" meaning that it starts getting hard before you "finish" it and you end up with a REALLY big mess. The idea is to do an easily manageable portion in a day. The project would take several days.
Let's say the minimum load is 3 yards. A cubic yard is 3'x3'x3'=27 cu ft. That would be 243 sq ft of 4" concrete. (27 cu ft x 3 yards x 3 since it is only 4" thick and 4" is 1/3 foot).
Your driveway is 10' wide so you might want to divide it off in 10' sections with control joints every 10' and an expansion joint every 30'. A control joint is one of those lines that are tooled on the concrete to help control cracking. An expansion joint is that cardboard like brownish black stuff that comes in 3.5" wide strips around 5 or 10 ' long.
So you place the 100' driveway in three pours, the first 2 being 30' long and the 3rd, now that you know what you are doing being a 40' section. Hire someone with some concrete experience for the forming and first pour. Offer to pay him reasonably well - say $20 or $25 an hour to make sure he shows up on concrete day.
My neighbor did a DIY driveway and placed on Saturday, friends either didn't show up or showed up late, and the next Saturday he had to rent a jack hammer and get a dump truck to "fix" it. IE - remove and replace. BTW - this same neighbor, although a smart and skilled guy, took 5 years to finish his DIY house. In the end he had to take 3 weeks off work to finish the house after they moved out so they could sell it. So much for DIY.
I see a lot of dye hard DIY advocates living with unfinished projects and mediocre results. Even my best friend who is a residential construction manager with 30 years experience but insists on doing DIY everything has several projects that have been in process for 5 years. A man once said to me "Not feeling you need to do everything yourself is a sign of maturity". I'm OK with that. I see some people living in what I consider squaller with their DIY pipe dreams.
Really that $3.45 (was that it?) turn key price sounds pretty good. Even though they will make it look easy, when you see how much work it is you will be happy you hired it out. Concrete is a huge amount of labor, and for someone who has no experience, just handling the cute could whip you before it is even time to do the real work.
In summary often times you are better off making money at whatever you do best, and letting go of some of that money to pay someone else to do what they do best.
If you insist on DIY the ideal situation would be to find someone to go help with their concrete project (donate free labor) so you can learn a little first.
Blazer Guy,
Here a few things to consider:
1.) When water is mixed with the dry ingredients of concrete, it begins a chemical reaction. From that point on, the concrete is irreversibly and inexorably hardening.
2.) Wet concrete weighs 4000 lbs. per yard. It requires strength and technique to work it into place.
3.) Wet concrete applies pressure on and sometimes breaks forms.
4.) After the concrete is placed, it has to be floated and finished. This requires a knowledge of the material and physical skill.
Concrete is different from most other building materials in that, if you find yourself in over your head, you can't just quit and start over the next day. If something goes wrong, you end up with a bad job or lose the batch of concrete. Sometimes, you have to break up and haul away the concrete.
Respect this material; it is the stuff of which fiascos are made.
Concrete is $110 a yard here. I'm shocked at Pony tail's price of $85.
I just bought 7 yards for $547. 4000 fibered.copper p0rn
$110.00 a yard, wow! I get it free here. My son drives a concrete truck for a company next door. I tried putting in an extension to my driveway this summer. I can get what is left over after the truck has left the job. Of course, you have to take just what is in the truck. You have to be prepared at any time of the day. I like to have four men for a job. On one pour I did it all by myself. On another pour, my wife helped me screed it out. Well, maybe free concrete isn't such a bargain after all.
Sounds like your wife is a really good sport. Either that, or you will be hearing about that piece of concrete for the next 10 years.... :-)
you will be hearing about that 9building task) for the next 10 years
How about 40 years? DW still likes to relate that her worst job ever was melting tar in a 55 gal bbl and 'painting' the outside of the foundation.
Note: this was pre-1974, when a 100# keg of tar cost only 50 cents!
Concrete here (PNW) is about $115 a yard unless you go over a few score yards. $146 for short loads in IL last week including tax.
"Sounds like your wife is a really good sport."
Truly, she is a good sport but a couple weeks ago, she fell and crushed her elbow while taking a dog for a walk. With her new elbow, she is not to ever lift more than ten pounds. We're going to miss that.
Edited 10/24/2009 9:26 am ET by Tinkerer3
Hope she mends fully in time.
The guy I refered to above who did the DIY house and didn't finish until after they moved away had his wife hanging drywall with him. This is a small lady - maybe 5'2" 110 or 120 #s. Crazy!!!
I was on a church work project in Mexico awhile back where we were digging a latrine. One lady working with us was about 65 and didn't stand an inch over 5 feet. But she was down in the hole digging until it got so deep she couldn't throw the "dirt" (caliche) out.
As I stood before the gates I realized that I never want to be as certain about anything as were the people who built this place. --Rabbi Sheila Peltz, on her visit to Auschwitz
The other thing I learned on concrete jobs by homeowners is to form up something else small. Garbage can pad, dog kennel, sidewalk. Something that you can easily throw in an extra board to shorten. Invariably, you will end up with more concrete than empty form and it pays to have a place to go with the extra just so long as it is for something you don't mind having an odd sized section.
My dad would take cement powder and put it on asphalt.
After it was spread out with a pushbroom you wet it down.
It turns the asphalt gray for a pretty long time.
It makes the very top of the asphalt stiffer.
Will Rogers