shep and jet I guess,
Ya know, I don’t want to die or go thru life maimed so I need an opinion.
With the onslaught of winter I usually find myself taking on a project to keep occupied and the other day I was cutting firewood when I noticed the end grain on these logs and got to thinkin’.
I’ve had this 3/4 hp Central Machine Model No.787 lathe out in a shed for a long time. Don’t remember where I got it but always had it in the back of my mind to set it up and give in a whirl.
But don’t know anything about them outside of a general briefing a buddy gave me on his shop memory from highschool while he gave me his turning tool chisel set to use.
Should I attempt this or is it too foolhardy risky thing to do?
Replies
bump
Why not? I got an oldish cheap lathe for $20.00 at a yard sale with a whole set of tools. I threw it on top of my workbench, clamped it down and have started to teach myself woodturning. Remember, there is a piece of wood spinning way too fast for comfort right in front of you. You're going to stick a knife/chisel into it. Beware! Have your workpiece nicely fastened before you turn it on. Read a book or find someone who knows lathe-work.
That said, I haven't found anyone who knows how to use a lathe: I'm somewhat self-taught. Pray for me, would you?
Norm
Recalling many years back an earlyexperience with a radial armsaw where I tried ripping a 2x4 on the saw and the board ended up stuck like a dart in a sheet of osb that was covering a window at the other end of the shop.
be I value my nuts.
cashews, brazil, almonds...
that lathe and those logs are going to be a challenge, but we like challenges so go for it, start small and work up, get a feeling for turning speed and balance. Chunks of wood like those logs aren't the sort of thing you want to learn on, they'ld have the lathe dancing around the shop ..
Its pretty hard to seriously injure yersef with a lathe, esp that one. The tube lathes are underpowered enough that youcan stall the wood and the drive center will just spin.
Clean her up real good and wax the snot outta that tube, the tailstock needs to slide smoooooothly as does the tool rest.
Keep the rest BELOW the center line of what you are turning, and the tool itself angled just a tad above, do NOT start out that big azzed hunk of unblanced fire wood, start out with some thing a bit more close to being easy on ya, size wise, till ya learn the right pully combo's for speed, and how to sharpen the gouges, start with a gouge, then graduate to parting tool, and finally skew chisel..I hate scrapers for anything but the endgrain, and even then not often..good lathing is CUTTING not scraping.
Decide if you are faceplate turning or spindle turning there are distinct differences. In every step of setting it up safely.
Spheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks
"People that never get carried away should be"
You can't make the mistake I made in high school. CNC router - 0.1" instead of 0.01" for the first pass.
You know, they don't put the guard on for nothing.
Was thinking of making a stand for a router instead of using the knives.
Is that what you're mentioning?
be five, five, five fingers do I hear four, four, four fingers...
Make a floor lamp........................Out of the lathe.
We do not inherit the earth from our Ancestors, we borrow it from our children. Native American Proverb
Edited 12/13/2007 8:59 am ET by Gunner
LOL..Spheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks
"People that never get carried away should be"
Make a floor lamp........................Out of the lathe.<<< very good idea i have 2 could i make the bulb go round and round too or would the cord get twisted???
Hook that sucker up... I'll bet there's a community collitch with a continuing ed course in turning... geezers usually get in free<G>So, what's the wood? and, is it green? Winterlude, Winterlude, my little daisy,
Winterlude by the telephone wire,
Winterlude, it's makin' me lazy,
Come on, sit by the logs in the fire.
The moonlight reflects from the window
Where the snowflakes, they cover the sand.
Come out tonight, ev'rything will be tight,
Winterlude, this dude thinks you're grand.
Learn how to sharpen or get extra long knives... Winterlude, Winterlude, my little daisy,
Winterlude by the telephone wire,
Winterlude, it's makin' me lazy,
Come on, sit by the logs in the fire.
The moonlight reflects from the window
Where the snowflakes, they cover the sand.
Come out tonight, ev'rything will be tight,
Winterlude, this dude thinks you're grand.
Tree'd been dead and standing out back for years. Just the main of the tree left, no limbs. Got about 6 2ft lengths of firewood out of it when I noticed the maroon tint in the heart wood.
Had a straight 10 ft length of 14-16 inch dia butternut that had been down for about two years laying there.
Hated to do it but knew I probably would never get around to hauling it to the Amish to be milled and I was needing some long burning so there ya go, and there it went.
ya, need to start sharpening. Out of habit I started a collection of dull chisels.
be a maroon, what a maroon
Edited 12/14/2007 7:09 pm ET by rez
Butternut is like white walnut, right? If yeah, smooth turning... but 2 years isn't green.. which you turn to within an inch like of your finished vision, stick it in a bag of shavings for 3- months, pull it out and wonder what the hell was I thinking???I haven't throw anything off the lathe that could hurt me, as yet, so maybe you could set up a remote camera so's I could know what to watch out for... to everything, turn, turn, turn... Winterlude, Winterlude, my little daisy,
Winterlude by the telephone wire,
Winterlude, it's makin' me lazy,
Come on, sit by the logs in the fire.
The moonlight reflects from the window
Where the snowflakes, they cover the sand.
Come out tonight, ev'rything will be tight,
Winterlude, this dude thinks you're grand.
I've got a better project for you, make your own lathe. Not that difficult to do. The machined parts can be ordered as replacement parts from any machine tool company that sells lathes.I made my own,headstock and tailstock spindles were from Grizzly.I bought heavy duty pillow block bearings locally,and some left over 2x4's that had been setting in the shop for a year .There is a Taunton book on lathes ( do not recall which book) that shows several home built lathes.The smallest is a beer box lathe,small lathe using a wood crate I think for the base.Then there is a huge bowl lathe from steel. Last there is the lathe I built,with some modifications.This is an 8'-0" wooden lathe.Mine will turn a bit over 4'-0" long and 18" diameters.Cost about $200.00 or less to build. Mostly for the metal parts and a few accesories like drive centers and live center.
That lathe you have might do to find out if you enjoy turning. Clean it up but I would not put any money in it. Practice with scrap or short limbs but not those butt logs.The little lathe won't turn much besides spindles and a small bowl maybe.
mike
That lathe looks like a belt driven type.
The belt driven ones are safe due to the fact that if you jam the knife, the belt will skip.
Clean it up and start with a small piece. Those logs look green as well. Green wood is easier to turn but will crack as it dries. That can be a good thing if it cracks in a nice way.
Another way to do it is to turn it then soak it in PEG.
http://www.leevalley.com/wood/page.aspx?c=1&p=20080&cat=1,190,42942
Make sure that the bed is well secured to a good base.
That green monster I have is heavy enough that I can get away with some unbalanced pieces. Yours would require that the wood be close to balanced before you start. Once balanced it should all be good.
gee, looks familiar
that's my lathe!!! (and you can have it!)
Sure does. Yours still have the nameplate?
Edited 12/14/2007 2:59 pm ET by rez
You need to try and find the center of those logs and put them in the lathe. But don't turn it on. Turn them by hand and see how centered they are. If there is a large part that hangs out mark it with a magic marker or something. Take it out of the lathe and hack, cut, saw, that hunk off. when you mount it and you think it will spin ok fire it up.
At first it will hop a bit. I've had whole pieces fly off. I still have all ten.
I'm still wondering about hooking a router up to an arm that can be lowered in small increments down on to the wood as it is turning.
Is this plausible?
People have done it. One thing you can do that is easier and fast is to use a 4"grinder. I've used one and I think I might have use a circular saw but I can't remember. WARNING!!!! Extremely dangerous!
Over the years people have tried just about everything you can imagine.
One thing to keep in mind is that traditional turning with a scewed chisel creates shavings that fall on the floor. When you start scraping off the wood it makes A LOT of dust. Almost all the turning I did was scraping. I would even sand the piece while it was turning. You can finish it and polish it on the lathe also.
The 4" grinder wouldn't be to dangerous. The problem is your typical grinder blades clog up.
You could try something like this (in the picture) in your 4" angle grinder.
I just Googled power carving.
yep, seen them.
Saw some once that looked like a little chain saw blade on there. Never could figure out what was with that.
Been having a hankering lately to try some chainsaw carving.
be stumped
You should try the turning. Once you start it's hard to stop. When I started I would stay up late at night turning. The next morning I would show my wife what I made.
That's nice dear. I'd be covered in dust and bleary eyed.
That arm would have to be extremely rigid to work well. I've got one for overarm/pin routing, but wouldn't try to mount it over my lathe.
I use a box, bolted to my lathe bed, with a slot for the router finger guide to follow. Makes tapered/straight turnings a breeze, very accurate. With an indexer, you can do flutes and/or inlays.
My lathe interest is primarily for furniture parts. Good to see you're interested. Very versatile tool, with a few jigs. Recently sold my perfectly adequate Rockwell in favor of a Powermatic monster. County schools were dumping tools, my needed-a-rebuild cost $25. Then a couple hundred more in parts, including a new motor that would work on my voltages. I added a reverser switch during the process, speeds sanding. It was already variable speed.
Here's a table off my lathe. One (non-lathe) flat element for contrast.PAHS Designer/Builder- Bury it!
a bolted box.
so now the plot thickens.
The box also gives you a shield from flying debris. Which with a router, is different from lathe tools.
BTW, Sphere opined that lathe work should be about cutting only. I'd bet he never met Dale Nish (at BYU, hosting a national woodworkers conference when I encountered him) who championed scraping, particularly with green wood. No problem to get 4" long scraper peels from a green blank.
I find standard tools to have woefully short handles. My scrapers are (turned) long handles with a wornout flat file for a cutter. As Dale taught, you grind a burr on the cutter and scrape away. When the burr's gone, grind another. Takes a couple seconds at the grinder.
My suggestion is to learn scraping, then a gouge, then try taming the skew.PAHS Designer/Builder- Bury it!
Do you have a quick pic of that bolted box by any chance? Thanks
Not yet.
Not a problem. Even left the stove going down there (next to the lumber shed). Gotta displace the (lap-napping) cat eventually anyhow. PAHS Designer/Builder- Bury it!
I worked with a guy who took an old Atlas metal lathe with a screw cutter and tricked it to cut 5' oak columns with a 3/4hp pc router. He powered the screw feed with a scrapped servo motor from an old IBM copy machine.And Norm went to visit guy who turned giant bowls with routers on articulated arms...lotsa ways to skin a log<G> Winterlude, Winterlude, my little daisy,
Winterlude by the telephone wire,
Winterlude, it's makin' me lazy,
Come on, sit by the logs in the fire.
The moonlight reflects from the window
Where the snowflakes, they cover the sand.
Come out tonight, ev'rything will be tight,
Winterlude, this dude thinks you're grand.
If you or anyone else has one of them TUBE lathe beds, I jhave a doo-hicky I machined that acts as a coupler so you can use another tube attached to the end of the original tube.
This allows you to turn 6' long or so, and use two tool rests. The first tube is attached by a long bolt from the tailstock end cap, the thing I made is an aluminum adapter that has a tapered cup and expanding fingers. By adding the second tube and bolting thru it and the doo-hicky it locks the two tubes together.
Took me a solid day on a metal lathe to make it. But I don't have a tube lathe ( or the spare tube) anymore.
I made it cuz I had to make a bed that had a 2" diameter head rail and foot rail that had a slew of tapered dowels that connected that rail to the actual frame rails between the posts. Didn't have any other way of turning those rails, the spring pole lathe was too wobbly at that length.
Free to whoever wants it. A finely machined Piece of work..like me.Spheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks
"People that never get carried away should be"
You proficient with a metal lathe? Damn, son, I keep telling you to visit.
I'm learning. Mostly 'cause my machinist is showing signs of age. Seems I'm always wanting something or other for my old machinery. If Carl dies, I'm in trouble. So I'm studying an Audel's machinist's manual that's not quite as old as the lathe. Both considerably older than I am.
He picked out this jem for me not long ago. Thought it was a better lathe (certainly newer) than the one he was going to give me. Inbetween size of the 2 he routinely uses. Coming soon, his extra metal shaper. Not that I've even seen one in use yet. Wide belt drill press is already here. Haven't assembled it, but he assures me it's got torque that I've never imagined. PAHS Designer/Builder- Bury it!
I had an old Pratt&Whitney lathe, about half the size of that one you posted. I got it with a box of cutters and fiddly bits.
Jut got to thinking, I have NO IDEA where I got it from..huh. I know I had it at my last house in PA, and traded it for a Pontiac Grand Prix in '96 or '97 in NC. It was a pretty cool lathe.
I wouldn't call myself Profiecient on a metal lathe, but I can get the job done reasonably well. Kinda like patting your head and rubbing your tummy with that cross slide feed..LOL
Yeah, I WILL get over the bumps and come see ya...maybe spring this year will be kinder than the last 2 years have been as far as a getaway. My buddy in Cape Charles is also getting impatient for a visit from us.Spheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks
"People that never get carried away should be"
traded it for a Pontiac Grand Prix in '96 or '97 in NC
And now both are gone...
Yeah, this puppy's heavy. And extremely unbalanced, I found out when I went to get it out of the truck without benefit of forks. Not an afternoon I'd care to repeat.
Once on the floor, no reason to fasten it down. I'm getting pretty good at cutter grinding, came with 50 lbs of 'em. Got a bunch of accessories due in next week. You know, with wood lathes you don't deal with precise angles and clearances. And self-propelled carriages that really do need to travel in the correct direction.
I'm gonna make a 20' tie rod for an outbuilding. And get comfy with thread cutting.
Was only in Cape Charles once. Didn't see much attraction, other than the bridge/tunnel getting there. But as Archie observed about Jersey: "somebody's gotta live there".
PAHS Designer/Builder- Bury it!
I don't have a toobe lathe, but one night at the comm. college, someone wanted to turn an 8' cedar log into a totem.The instructor was great, said hell yeah, and clamped two deltas together.There were people sitting on the headstocks, others retightening clamps and tailstocks, and up to four people turning at once... those cedar knots were giving the tailstock sitters a pretty good ride. Winterlude, Winterlude, my little daisy,
Winterlude by the telephone wire,
Winterlude, it's makin' me lazy,
Come on, sit by the logs in the fire.
The moonlight reflects from the window
Where the snowflakes, they cover the sand.
Come out tonight, ev'rything will be tight,
Winterlude, this dude thinks you're grand.
I can just see that! Ride 'em cowboy..LOL
I hadda make a steady rest out of a skate board truck to keep the long stuff from whipping and coming out looking like a lopsided hour glass..Live an learn.
Also learned a block plane held askew makes for a nice smoothe cylinder.Spheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks
"People that never get carried away should be"
Do you have a quick pic of that bolted box
Oops.
Appears I gave it to the guy who bought the Rockwell lathe. Box was bolted with T-nuts to the lathe bed (not a tube). Had a slot in the front to get a hand in there to rotate the work in the indexer, and see what the router left. Back and bottom mostly open to give the chips somewhere to go. Top slot was just wide enough for my plunge-router finger guide. Holes in the ends for the lathe centers.
Sat between the head and tail stock, sized high enough to allow the work piece to fit, but not so high that the router bits were too short. Don't remember which project I made it for, but it got used on a number of them.
Here's my "new" lathe and a tapered, inlaid piece that hasn't made it into the stove yet. Walnut and butternut, which don't have a close enough humidity movement to work. I also experimented with Corian, unsuccessfully. Doesn't bother me to have a failure, still learning. I've also blown up more than a few "vessels".
Most important: have fun.PAHS Designer/Builder- Bury it!
wow man, you got a real one!
be great refrains from woodshop101. You's guys got some serious going ons.
Edited 12/16/2007 12:18 am ET by rez
You been talkin' with my wife?
Oh... you meant the lathe. Don't need to bolt either one down. You knew I like large stuff, cupolas, tractors, trucks, spans, stuff...
C'mon, for $25 you never could have resisted hauling it home either. Got just a hair more for the Rockwell than I spent on parts for the Powermatic. Then the Rockwell buyer mentioned that metal lathe he had. So now I'm a thousand in the hole.
And having fun.PAHS Designer/Builder- Bury it!
There are worse vises.
be oh my
There are worse vises.
The ones from Harbor Freight are pretty bad. I spent $100 on an old 5" domestic vise. It's real, will take a beating. Lives next to the metal lathe on a heavy steel table.
Oh... maybe you meant vices. Yeah. And more expensive. Like my penchant for Woodford Reserve (Kentucky bourbon).
Sun's out and we never saw the promised snow/sleet/freezing rain. I was hoping to try out the toboggan I bought last spring from Craigslist. The mystery was why anybody here would have one, but now I do- a 2 seater. 400' elevation drop in our driveway. Do those things steer? PAHS Designer/Builder- Bury it!
Do those things steer? heh heh yer gonna find out!
As for vices...ya, another small attempt at humor.
On the subject of vises, what was the original intent for use of the old larger vises that had the long point coming out the bottom?
I see in a shed the one I bought years ago at an auction for $20 with the idea it would be placed on the worktable that has yet to materialize anywhere but in my imagination.
They seem rather common as I see them off and on again at different places. Were they a blacksmithing vise?
be Woodford Reserve or JD it's all good
S'called a Tail Vise, and yup the tail engages in a hole in thefloor. It was a common smithy's vise. I bought Splinter's last year and have it mounted on the other end of my bench from the first one I have.Spheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks
"People that never get carried away should be"
On yours do the tails engage a hole in the floor?
No, because I am tall, I have my one bench top higher than most folks. Another assembly type bench is lower, but I keep it clear of vises.
What I did is bolt the vices near a bench leg ( 4x4, in this case) and tied the tail end to the leg with plumbing strap.
Also, I made wood jaw covers that loosly fit over the metal jaws..I went about 8'' wide , and they function more like wood vise would is if a wood vice could ..lol
Handy as all get out to have a good vise like these..I don't remember how much I gave Splinty for hers, but I do remember it took three weeks to unwrap it..she used a case of tape.Spheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks
"People that never get carried away should be"
I was ready to rip you a new one with accusations of not using as tool as designed
but now that you say you used plumbing strap to secure the point to the table leg that should suffice,
providing the table leg is securely mounted to the floor.
Is it?
Yup. S'long as we still have gravity, all my stuff is secured to the floor.Spheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks
"People that never get carried away should be"
C'mon now. I know you've seen snow. No hills there? Not a part of Ohio I'm familiar with. And Sphere's from Pa. They got hills.
I'm from Arizona: hills, mountains even, but I never saw a toboggan before. This one was pretty unused. Reasonable, considering it's in Va. Driveway's 14% slope but if I can miss the trees there're 140% slopes available here.
Sphere's got one more tail vice than I do. Haven't managed to find a hole in any of my floors yet. Probably not a problem for him... No idea the quality of this vice. Mine's definitely a floor mount.
Just in case I'm speaking a foreign language. Oh, and lookin' for the slopes chart... ran across... you ever see this guy cruising your neighborhood?PAHS Designer/Builder- Bury it!
You have a meanazz driveway and that guy was on the tube the other day.
I think Sphere's must be located in a hole since he uses it as a plug to keep the snakes underneath those floorboards from coming in the house.
To steer, just shift yer weight to the side you want to go to..but do it a mile before the apex of the turn..LOL
Do NOT stick yer heel out in front of you to drag that side slower, EVER, you will jam yer knee into your eyesocket and the patella can become irretrievably lost in the socket..or at leas it feels that way.
To stop a 'boggin...aim for a tree and bail just before impact.Spheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks
"People that never get carried away should be"
Awright! We're gonna have fun. Assuming we see some snow someday.
Maybe I'll start on a bunny slope. You say the steering's a tad loose? Big trees here. No air bags that I saw.
In Arizona all we had were innertubes. Only way to steer was to slide backwards and drag a heel. Works pretty well until you didn't see the tree over your other shoulder. Whap!PAHS Designer/Builder- Bury it!
Should be headed your way as we speak..blowing sideways here..and 30 windchill is 18, wind 25-45 outta the west.
Have fun. Spheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks
"People that never get carried away should be"
If you stuck a handkerchief with a rope on it out your window, you could be here in time for happy hour. Overshoot, and it's dinner at Cape Charles. Beyond that... you're dinner.
Wind we got. Treetops moving 40'. Still 46º though. White stuff didn't make it over the Blue Ridge.
Might hafta go play with my lathe instead. Another concrete building. Real nice in this wind.
Be Danny Deckchair... PAHS Designer/Builder- Bury it!
You guys are getting me to think of my old man. After he quit being a pattern maker and became a firefighter he kept side work going doing custom woodwork and machine work.. had both lathes . One time he turned a dished round table top about 36" diameter and 2" thick. Used the metal lathe to make a head stock face plate for the outboard end of the wood lathe. Then made a set of jack shafts to reduce the speed of the wood lathe down to almost nothing. roughed the table top out on a band saw and proceeded to turn it to the required diameter. Scary shid to a 10 year old watching that thing go around and the old lathe bouncing until he got it turned and balanced. I started turning things for him when I was about 10, started making good wages from him at 12 or so when I could read a pattern and turn the product out to match the pattern using calipers. Lost more than one skew or gouge into the garage door behind the lathe learning not to be trying too aggressive a cut with the rest set to low and too far away from the piece. Haven't touched a lathe for years, still have his turning tools though.
They can't get your Goat if you don't tell them where it is hidden.
I remember "spinning" alum ashtrays in Jr.High woodshop or metal shop.
I think I will experiment spinning copper over a mandrel..I saw a "How its Made" episode on TV, they were spinning Brass for Tea Pots...then soldered and plated with Silver, but I could see just copper ware being pretty cool.
Just a rounded stick, no special cutters IIRC. Oh and sturdy fulcrum to lever against.Spheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks
"People that never get carried away should be"
I have done that .. Copper over a mandrel. Saw a lot of it done as well. Part of the extended families business was repairing and plating metal ware. Wish now I had been less of a kid and more of a student of the trades I grew up around.
They can't get your Goat if you don't tell them where it is hidden.
My one large outboard turning was a similar table top for a local horse breeder. The Rockwell was pretty light for the job. I had it braced to the wall and ceiling. Still had more vibration than I liked. I finished at 5/8" thick for the tilt-top. Took 2 tries before I got the mahogany to sit still.
Interior designer was tickled. I was happy to move on to something else.
It was memories of that, and a few other "adventures" that convinced me to switch to the Powermatic, substantially heavier. It came with a ridiculous number of faceplates, both inboard and outboard. Also variable speed by an adjustable sheave. Nice machine, of the sort mostly only schools will buy.
So you're lathe-less but still hauling the tools around? Pretty sure somebody around here would lighten your load... <G>
Guys I've known who turned large diameter pieces usually had homemade lathes, incorporating truck axles. Too specialized for me to get interested. I did once have to find a lathe large enough for exact replacement porch posts, maybe 12'. It, and the turner, were antiques. Wood selection was difficult. PAHS Designer/Builder- Bury it!
Tom, I had a small (maybe 24" bed ) that I played with for quite awhile years ago, but simply haven't had the inclination for the work. Hang on to the tools for sentimental reasons mostly. Handling them brings back the memories.
They can't get your Goat if you don't tell them where it is hidden.
i have a old metal lathe i bought from a gunsmith, I think it is from WW2 on a ship, Im gonna have to take classes on how to use it, or my friend knows how and said he will show me, I did it in high school, I also have a homemade wood lath used to make the old cedar fishing floats