Replies

1. 
   Mongo | May 20, 2002 03:24am | #1

   I prefer BEAM motors and electrolux outlets, hoses, wands, attachments, etc. Have an outdoor exhaust...unless you use a BEAM vac motor, then outdoor exhaust could be considered optional.

   Like DWV, some prefer a cleanout plug at the end of a long plumbing run, if you have one that's accessable. Some people also like to run the plumbing UP from the outlet, then down into the basement to join the main run. I think that uneccessary, as the short 90-degree elbow at the back of the oultet is the most restrictive part in the plumbing run. Also, the outlet does not get glued to that short 90. It's friction fit so you can clear obstructions if required.

   Get the longest hose offered, and get a sock for the hose.

   Try to install the outlet in a central closet so all you have to do is open the closet, pull out the already plugged in hose, vac, and hang it back in the closet. If one outlet works, great, but usually two per floor will suffice.

   Convenience is more important if you have hardwood floors vs carpet. Hardwoods get quickly vac'd once a day, so convenience is important. Carpet usually gets cleaned less often. I have all hardwood in my house, so convenience is high on my list.

1. 
   donpapenburg | May 20, 2002 05:48am | #2

   I will differ with Mongo , inthe short time that I have had mine I would say an outlet in every room . and a relatively short hose about 25' is long enough if you can't keep the hose pluged in one outlet all the time. A shorter hose is easier to hual around the house. Have a hose for each floor. Insist on outside exhaust. I used 2" dwv pipe for my system ,and long sweep elbows, that you can't get with the regular vac pipe.Get the most powerful motor that you can. Thats my opinion,Don

1. 
   Jgriff | Nov 08, 2002 04:49am | #3

   Don

   Been searching through the archives on the idea of installing/using a central vac system. Mine would be a retrofit into a 30 y/o 2 story central hall colonial.  Have a couple of great central hall closets within which to run the piping - but they're in the middle of the house.

   Came across your post with the notation of "long sweep elbows" which, I presume, helps prevent blockages. What is a long sweep elbow and where do I get my hands on them?

   Other than the "Y" to join the port on the first floor to the tube heading from the 2nd floor down to the basement and the final elbow into the vac itself, I figure I'll need one elbow in the basement to head the pipe 20' to an outside wall to exhaust and am wary of that sharp 90 degree turn. Even with a clean out

   Thanks

   Griff

1. 
   donpapenburg | Nov 08, 2002 06:24am | #5

   I got mine at Menards. I used 2" PVC dwv pipe for my vac pipeing. Also put in more than one outlet per floor . I have one in each room. That hose gets caught on too many things . I also have floor sweeps at each door. Don

1. 
   FrankB89 | Nov 08, 2002 06:35am | #6

   I have an un-documented Salvadoran that comes in once a week. 

2. 
   bobl | Nov 08, 2002 07:19am | #7

   http://www.beamvac.com/products/installation/installation_manual_video.htm

   Beam site but installation should be similar for all (expect the exceptions)

   Mine is a Beam and it came with the pipe.bobl          Volo Non Voleo      Joe's cheat sheet

3. 
   4Lorn1 | Nov 08, 2002 07:28am | #8

   It is common to locate the vacuum in the garage, better than a closet, but look into having the exhaust piped through an exterior wall as opposed to blowing it into the garage. Even the best filters let some of the dust through. If it is ducted outside this is not a problem even if the filter should rip. One whole hose vacuum I wired was built into a 2 by 6 lean-to off the back of the house. It also contained the water heater, conditioner and filters. Seemed like a good idea.

2. 
   booch | Nov 08, 2002 10:33pm | #9

   The sweep elbow is common in the electrical PVC section of a distributor. HD or elsewhere is is possible but I haven't seen it. Most electrical houses will have a series of sweep lengths in stock. Most sweeps have their own end bell so you don't need another fitting. 

   As for why, that is a two fold answer.

   One the plugging up is lessened by tinkertoys being able to make the corner.

   Two is that friction on the inside of a pipe is amplified at sharp corners. For example I know of compressed air situations. "Blowoff" (on a punch press where the stamped part is stuck to the die) is accomplished by running compressed air thru the die ports to the forming head. Every 90 degree change of direction is the equivalent of adding 6 foot of pipe to the system. Simply put, the friction of the air rubbing on the inside of a pipe could be say .01% friction per foot (the value doesn't matter) every foot adds up the friction til there is no vacuum at the end. Every foot of friction loss matters. It will matter more as it gets dirty from your kids sucking the unwanted vegetable of the day thru the kitchen port.

   Consider running the largest available pipe as far as you can. Friction is based on the sidewall surface vs the internal volume.

   PS. De-burr your pipe cuts.

1. 
   Jgriff | Nov 09, 2002 02:48am | #10

   Thanks Booch. Many good points in your post. And thanks for the clue on the extended elbows. Now that you've mentioned it, I remember seeing them before.

2. 
   FrankB89 | Nov 09, 2002 09:44pm | #11

   So here's a question;  I've only built one house that had a central vac installed.  The plumber installed the pipe and used a thin-walled gray PVC...looked like conduit, was smoother inside, but very thin.  It was a pain to work around to avoid damaging it.  In fact, one section did get split when it got bumped by a sheet of drywall.  It was easily fixed, but wouldn't a heavier material be preferable? 

3. 
   Mongo | Nov 09, 2002 10:15pm | #12

   It might have been proprietary central vac piping. A couple of the larger cantral vac companies have their own pipe. It's as you described...thin-walled...and the lengths are usually only 5 ft long, which means more couplings for longer runs.

   Expensive pipe, and expensive fittings.

   It does make sense to use a heavier PVC DWV-type pipe. Less expensive, and more durable. You'll just have to take care to mate the inside and outside diameters of the non-proprietary pipe and the vac outlets. Not a big deal.

4. 
   FrankB89 | Nov 09, 2002 10:42pm | #13

   That makes sense.  I don't recall the pipe lengths because I wasn't that involved in the system except for being careful around it.

   My parents had a central vac unit built into a house in the early 70's.  Mom got to where she didn't like it and it never got used much.  I've done some remodels in homes that had them, and again, unused.  Are they really all they're cracked up to be? 

   I'm just curious....I don't have an opinion one way or the other. 

5. 
   ahneedhelp | Nov 10, 2002 03:37am | #14

   1970s house means....shag carpeting ?

   Shag carpet and central vac did not get along too well.

   An average powered central vac cannister would get bogged down very easily with a clump of shag fiber hung up somewhere in the piping.

   And moms didn't like the lack of cleaning power, especially when trying to Hoover up on shag carpeting.

   It was also very easy to neglect the pleated filter that protected the motor, which would also seriously affect the suction.

   Actually, this may be common problem even today.

6. 
   Mongo | Nov 10, 2002 04:20am | #15

   I never had a central vac until I installed one in my present house.

   I think the easier a vac is to use, the more it will get used.

   The footprint of my house is about 1600 sq ft. Roughly 34' x 46'. I have two outlets on the first floor, as well as two on the second floor, and one in the finished attic (850 ft).

   I have electrolux outlets and an electrolux wand, with a 30 foot hose that has a sock over it. The electrolux outlets are self-contained...when you plug the hose into the outlet, you connect the hose, the 120v, and the low-voltage all in one motion. The on/off switch for the vac is on the handle of the wand.

   We leave our vac plugged in, as the oultet is in a central closet. Open the closet, pull it out, vac the entire first floor...about 1600 sq ft...in about 10 minutes. Usually we just have to vac the kitchen area, as that's the door where most people enter our house. I don't have a mudroom yet (next project<g>) so we do have to vac the grit up before it trashes the floors. I have all brazilian cherry hardwood in my house, no w2w carpet. Carpeting would take longer to vac.

   We probably vac the kitchen/entry area floor twice a day, it takes maybe three minutes from saying "I think I'll vac" until the vac is again put away and the closet door is again closed. It's that easy, it's that convenient.

   My in-law's also have a central vac. The wand and hose are kept in a closet. To get the thing running, they have to drag out the hose, plug it in, plug in a 120ac pigtail, then press a button on the outlet cover to turn the vac on, and press the button again to turn the vac off. They don't have a sock on the hose, so it doesn't glide easily across the floor. It's actually a pain to drag around. Also, occasionally the rubber hose gets stuck up on door casing, and it will marr the finish on the trim. As piddly as it sounds, it's a pain in the arse to use...so they don't use it. And it shows.

   Carpet hides dirt better than hardwood, especially a dark hardwood like I have in my house. If I had carpeting I figure I'd probebly vac what...maybe once a week? Still, becuase I have no transition space, grit does get tracked in, so out comes the vac. I can't see how vacuuming could get any easier. And no, having a maid would be more of a hassle.

   Again, I think Beam makes the best motors, electrolux makes the best wands/attachments/outlets. Unfortunately. Electrolux is pricey, but others hace copied their wares so similar equipment is becoming available at a lower price.

   Get the hose that will allow you to vac your house from one outlet, if possible. If not, get the longest hose you can, and put a sock on it. I've got a 30' hose and my kids (10 and 12 years) can handle it no problem.

   If I built again, I'd use the same setup.

7. 
   FrankB89 | Nov 10, 2002 05:04am | #16

   Thanks for that post!  We also have all wood floors and tile (I've removed enough carpet from other houses, some very well-kept ones, to know how gross it is) but no central vac.

   We have a number of parrots which create a fair amount of dust.  A HEPA filter system takes care of most of that, but DW spends a lot of time daily with portable vac (feathers, seeds, etc.).

   So next year, I'll be adding on a large entry/atrium where the birds will be....there will be an opportunity to install a central vac system as I'll have a good portion of about half the house opened up to varying degrees.  I'd actually never considered one before.

   Your input has possibly just increased my budget. 

8. 
   StanFoster | Nov 10, 2002 05:14am | #17

   We have had central vac in our house since 1975.  My wife loves it.  Just last year I replaced the power unit with a large Vacu-flow unit.  This produces enough suction to run a turbine powered brush.....thus no electric cords.  Its handy...and 100% of the exhaust goes outside.  My wife loves it.

9. 
   booch | Nov 11, 2002 05:16am | #18

   I think your only concern is getting the diameters to match for fittings. The "schedule" (40,80,etc) of pipes determines the sidewall thickness. Proprietary material is always more expensive.

   Take a ruler and a notebook and measure Id's and Od's of the contenders and go buy the best value.

   Buried PVC drainage tubing is thin in the sidewall however it is susseptable to breakage too. "The time has come" the walrus said. "To talk of many things, to talk of ships and sealing wax and cabbages and kings, and why the sea is boiling hot and whether pigs have wings"

3. 
   CHARITY116 | Nov 11, 2002 06:39am | #19

   We install central vacuum systems in all of our houses, and my parents have always had central vacuum systems.  I really like them.  We install Beam stuff, and, having researched local prices for the "special" thin-walled vacuum PVC and plumbing PVC, I actually found no price difference.  I've install perhaps 20 systems, and have never had a pipe break.  The fittings are expensive, but be careful about sharp bends and complex curves  -  stuff can become trapped.  Pipes are usually joined by what we call "sweeping Ts;"  make certain that the joint "points" to the motor so that stuff flows toward the motor and not down the alternate pipe.  We usually buy 20 foot hoses for the homeowners and thus base our layout on a 20 foot "pattern" around each wall port.  The sweeping units, that are designed for tiled floors (such as kitchens) are a nice feature.  While we don't usually buy the mufflers, my father did and it reduces the motor noise.  That's a nice feature if the motor is in the garage near the (usual) kitchen door.

   ChrisA

2. 
   martagon | Nov 08, 2002 05:57am | #4

   And get one of the handles that has a switch on it, so that you (Ah, your wife) doesn't have to run back to the wall port to pull the hose out if the phone rings, or the children cry, or what ever.