Hello: Planning to install a Central vacuum system in new construction 2 story home. I was planning on using a “Beam System, then I saw the CANAVAC” system. Curious as to the pros/ cons of each system.
As always I appreciate your comments.
Cloudbuster
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Replies
I have and use the Beam System in our home for 11 years.
It sucks! (GOOD) ..... No repairs (GOODER)!
Like it a lot. Wife has no idea there's one installed ;)
Widely viewed in my area, (Pacific Northwest), as sure to fail, Mc Mansion flash accessories. They were popular in the late '80s, early 90's. Now if my clients ask for one, I tell them to buy 6 or 7 Orecks. Just saying.
Skipj,
Sure to fail in what way? Pipes coming unglued? Vacumn motor failing?
HEY ALL!
OK, wow, surprised to see such strong support for central vac systems.
My objections include, but are not limited to:
1. Clogs. There ain't no wide sweep 90 in a 2x4 wall. It's a true 90.
2. Noise. 3500 sq. ft. and up. You supporters tell me where I can put a big enough unit that won't sound like a 747 taking off. In the garage, under the master bedroom?
3. Memory loss. Most vacuums tell the operator when they're full. These, with their quite inadequate canisters don't.
4. Hose issues. Someone mentioned the 30' hoses. And the hose sleeves. And the beater bar unit. Solution: Outlet in every room. Which brings us to cost.
5. COST. Pipe and electrical to every room done right, plus the cost of the unit. Well, you all can explain to me why an $800 Miele for the main floor and an Oreck or two won't make my clients (and their cleaning ladies) happier, for less money.
skipj
skip.... if it's a money issue.... where do you want to start ?
get rid of the dishwasher because we can use the sink ?
either you're a fan of central vacs or you're not..
i do all the vacuming in our house...never had a clog.....
we have three outlets on the first floor , 2 on the 2d, one in the garage, one in the basement
the outside exhaust and the power are two of the best features
also.. the convenience is superior to the best vacumns on the market
what about trash compactors ? are you a fan of those.. or do you like emptying the trash every day ?
c,mon..... some things make life better... central vacs get my voteMike Smith Rhode Island : Design / Build / Repair / Restore
hey Mike,
Thanks for the response. And the giving me the chance to respond to my next pet peeve: Trash compactors.
Trash compactors belong next to the...trash. Outside or in the garage on the way to the...trash.
The kitchen is where fresh food is prepared, not where last Thursdays dinner is smashed and rotting and using up valuable lower cabinet space.
I always hook up for a compactor,...next to the trash. Never in the kitchen. They're loud, large and smelly.
skipj
Edited 11/24/2007 1:26 am ET by skipj
skip... i can always tell when "strangers are in the house"..... they put garbage in the trash compactor....
anything that can decompose goes in the "compost pile " container
coffee grounds... chicken bones, bacon grease, potato peels
only paper goods go in the trash compactor..... and it don't smell and it takes about
two weeks to fill up... when it's full i've got a nice 30-40 lb. package
i've lived about 40 years without a trash compactor
and 23 with one..... guess which way i prefer
Mike Smith Rhode Island : Design / Build / Repair / Restore
Ya know, it's really ok if those who like 'em, like 'em, and those who don't, don't. You don't? Don't buy one. I do, so I've installed them in my last two houses, and would all over again.1. In 7 years, have not had a clog.2. Noise in a garage is less than the noise following the vacuum around the house. Can't watch TV, listen to radio, talk with any stand-alone vac I've had. Can do all that with the central vacs. And master suite's not above garage. And vac's not running when we're sleeping, anyway, seeing as we're the ones who use it.3. Inadequate canister? In 7 years, I've emptied them maybe twice. More than adequate.4. DW and I find the hose easier to deal with than moving the whole vac, wrapping and unwrapping the cord.5. Cost. $900 to $1200 for the two I've installed. And I can include that in the cost basis of the house and make it part of the resale. And we've found it more powerful and more convenient than any of the vacs we purchased prior to that.
Dynovac (don't remember model) out of <!----><!----><!---->Red Deer<!---->, <!---->Alberta<!----><!---->. About $650 in 1997.
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Clogs. Wash rags, socks, plastic grocery bags, toys—no clogs. Plus items are relatively easy to retrieve. 2x4 walls.
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Noise. Ours is in the basement. If we are dusting or doing hard floors in the house, you can have a normal conversation in the room. Using the motorized beater bar is noisier, but not as noisy as the fancy (non-commercial) vacuums we use at the gym, and our central vac does a better job. Using the vacuum in the garage is slightly noisier than our Sears shop vac.
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Forgetting to empty. I usually empty our once/year plus when I have to retrieve something. (I don't retrieve things nearly as often now that the kids are older and my grandmother isn't here.)
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Logistics. We had 3 strategically-placed outlets; had to add a fourth when we added on to the house, which now has a bit under 2400 sq. ft. 30’ hose is perhaps a little more awkward than an electrical cord, but the benefits far outweigh this minor inconvenience. (And our house is most definitely not a McMansion!!)
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My grandmother loved using our vacuum because it was so light-weight. She could vacuum and dust for several hours without over-exerting herself, even though moving the hose required doing it in 2 sections. She really disliked my sister-in-law’s expensive, HEPA filter, semi-self-propelled vacuum—way too heavy for her. She’d have to rest after each room. She was never able to clog it either, and her eye-sight was almost non-existent.
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Other advantages. We have lots of wasps, which are difficult to kill with one hit of the fly swatter. General method is to hopefully stun it with the first swing of the fly swatter and then pound it with a shoe. With our vacuum and a little patience, vacuum gently inhales the wasp—no running for cover if you miss!! Likewise, scorpions have an amazingly thick exoskeleton—to crush them they have to be on a hard surface. Vacuum takes them easily off the carpet, curtains, etc. Then there was the moth infestation in our area a few years ago. We vacuumed up several hundred moths/night for a month that would get in between the screen doors and the main doors.
I like the central vacuum enough that I'd crawl around in a crawl space again to install it!
Kathleen
Thanks for the input.
OK, OK everyone. I'm willing to rethink this. I will do some contemporary research, ( haven't looked at 'em in 6 or 7 years), and re-evaluate.
My current client has had them in 2 previous homes and was an emphatic 'NO' when I broached the subject. My partner hates them, and, as I made clear, I'm historically no fan. With all of that, I'll take a look, again.
Thanks to all whom disagreed with me for your well stated opinions, and especially those who referenced makes/models.
skipj
Skipj , If you use 2"pvc pipe use the regular elbow ,it will fit in a 2x4 wall . The long sweeps are fine in the basement but not realy important . Like every one has said never a clog with regular household vacuuming. However if you are sucking up drywall chunks tile chips globs of mortar and thinset nails and screws you might need the long sweep elbows.
> My objections include, but are not limited to:That's a lot of objections. Have you not seen a central vac? Installed my own in my garage with only seven inlets (inc kitchen floor sweep) in a med size bungalo and have full coverage upstairs and down and in the garage. Use it with light and heavy hoses in every room including the basement wood shop (I vacuum out the shop vac with it and hook it up to the router) and the garage (picks up leaves, sand, salt, etc). Got it for about 50% more than the quality cannister I went out looking for. Much quieter, better air quality, better suction, more options, more capacity, maintenance free self-cleaning filter. If the sawdust, wood chips, leaves, and mice didn't clog it, most people won't with 'normal' cleaning. I would empty the bucket three times a year if not for the shop usage; it needs emptying after I vacuum out the shop vac bucket and pleated filter. I'm the house cleaner in my home and it made the chore almost fun. :) You might want to take a better look at them. Andy
As a fan of the central vac system I would say you would be better off not vacuuming if what you are doing is raising the dust up to where you breath it. Your snozzola is designed to catch the big stuff but that fine stuff is what gets you. I appreciate the fact that the central system sends the fine dust outside and that that attribute alone would make it well worth while.
Mesic
What if the garage is not attached, but 15 ft from the house? Where would you locate the canister, and how would you vent it in a new construction of a 2-story with walkout?
I'd put it in the basement (utility/mechanical room if allowed) and have the exhaust go through the rim joist.Mongo
I'm about to pull the trigger on an upper model Beam cannister but not quite decided on the outlet and tool/hose brands, which I understand there are alternative brands that may be better.Anyway, just wanted comment on folks who are not big fans of a central system.Central vac systems got a very bad rap during the late 60s and early 70s when the hideously ugly shag or deep pile carpeting were everywhere and I'm all too familiar with shag carpet clogs in the pipes, usually at the elbows, in homes from the Brady Bunch era.Doesn't take much for those shag strands with very fine nylon fibers to get snagged at poorly detailed and assembled joints and elbows and start building up.My in-laws in California have such a home - thank goodness no longer with the shag stuff - with a central vac system that they don't use because 'it doesn't work well' but I suspect there is a clog in the piping somewhere hidden behind the walls.Ours will be for dusting and routine sweeping in a house with hardwood floors and rugs, with no outdoor shoes allowed. Floor sweep outlet will be in the kitchen where most of the in/out traffic occurs.Back in the '80s we bought a townhouse with a central vac system.
Screaming loud cannister like a shop vac with a clogged house - sure enough, a shag carpet ball lodged at the elbow where the pipe entered the cannister. Soon after we moved in, torn off and rolled up shag carpeting was getting heaved out the upper floor windows for disposal.
Edited 12/15/2007 1:48 pm ET by AhneedHelp
I'd rank a central vac system right up with indoor plumbing.
What kind of junk systems are you talking about? What can go wrong?
Joe H
I can't say anything about the brands you have mentioned, but I have "two cents" to add.................
I installed a Nutone in my new home in 1972....same stuff in the walls and hanging on the basement wall as was in 1972 plus some additional remodel areas. The only part I have replaced is the hose and wand...we wore out the first one.
For carpeted areas the tool of choice is an upright with beater bar and HEPA filter..the central unit and wand just can't do as deep a clean as the upright.
Hard surface floors, basement and garage outlets see lots of service....if I were to build again a central unit would be part of the plan, as well as an up right....and a shop vac, too!
..............Iron Helix
> sure to fail, Mc Mansion flash accessories
>the central unit and wand just can't do as deep a clean as the uprightNot our experience at all. We've found them to last longer than stand-alone vacs, be quieter, be more powerful, and to do great on carpet with the power nozzles. In our experience, they're one of the most convenient things for the homeowner that can be added to a house.
Two items I'll never have a house without: Central Vac and inground pool!
I agree wholeheartedly! Reliable (mine's been used daily for 11 years), stronger suction, powerheads with beater bars and exhausts to the outside.
What's not to like?
we had a beam in our old house,was there when we bought it. not really knocking it as far as performance goes but our installation sucked big time[and i don't mean good suck]. there was one outlet located in the center of the house on each floor and you drug a 30' hose with you. i would rather push a upright than drag that hose around all the drywall corners.
be sure you have a outlet in every room and a 15' hose,should be fine.
i had a idea since we didn't really use it and i had a little shop in the basement .make it a dust collection system and get all the dust out of the house and out to the garage where the cannister was. works great, i'm smiling thinking i'm smarter than the average bear,went out to the garage and the bag had split and i had saw dust on cars,shelves ,floors every where.looked like a london fog out there.
looked like a good idea at the time...... larry
if a man speaks in the forest,and there's not a woman to hear him,is he still wrong?
And if you need more in the gadgitry division.
http://www.vacsamerica.com/products-hg.htm
Now no more draging the hose around.
don't know either of those
but our 1985 Nutone is still working excellent..... bought one new hose two years ago
just installed a VX550 for our latest customer..
both exhaust to the outdoors
Make sure the pipe is cut square (chopsaw) and then sanded. One sharpe edge and certain items will clog the system (Christmas tree needles will tax the best installation).
You may want to order a hose sock, it will reduce the damage to wall corners.
The bagless ones maintain the best suction and require an exhaust to the outside.
Installing a central vac is one of the top ten best things you can do for indoor air quality.
Unless you have a HEPA filter stand alone vac, much of the dust that will harm you blows right through vacuum filters. Most vacuums are great machines for spreading things like dust mites evenly throughout your house.
The central vac blows the small stuff outdoors.
Ron
I got a Vacumaid mfg in Nebraska. Got the outside exhaust. put a inlet /outlet in every room . used 2" pvc for my pipeline . The advantage is long sweep ells ,tees and cost about half what the flimsy pipe for vac system does.
I never had a central vac until I put one in my own house. My wife grew up with one, albeit a 1960s version.
I love it. My wife loves it.
I have a Beam. 10 years, no worries. I installed it myself, get good outlets, mine are the all in one type, plug in the hose and you connect to the 12v and the 120v at the same time.
Two outlets on the first floor (1600 sqft footprint), though one reaches everywhere.
Two outlets on the second floor (also 1600 sqft), one in the master bed wing the other in the kids bedroom wing.
One outlet in the attic (900 sqft), it reaches everywhere.
...cOne outlet in the basement, but I never use it.
Beam unit is in the basement with outside exhaust. Quiet.
Get a sock so the rubber hose doesn't mar the painted woodwork or wood flooring.
We only have one 30' hose and yes, we tote that upstairs as required. Still...
...convenience convenience convenience.
cloudbuster,
No experience with the two you listed, I installed a broan(might be Nutone now). It was quiet, recommend the muffler, it will cut down on the noise outside( if that is an issue) . The wife hated it , and I wasn't to crazy about it. For us it was the vacuum powered head(suction powered), light and cheap, no weight to it. Go with the powered head and put in the receptacles. You are only powering the head, it can come off the rest of the rooms circuit. And don't forget the sock for the hose, a lot easier on baseboard and casing's.
Northeastvt
Thread hijack...
Since I installed my clearvue cyclone out in the shop i want to run a central vac system off of it. Since my 5 hp baldor motor drives a huge impeller I can move 1600 cfm. A 4" or 6" main would be no problem next to the hvac duct work that runs down a central chase through the house.
thoughts?
Those are high volume, low "pressure" (suction) systems.Central vac's are just the oposite.But the time you get through the piping and the hose you will have about 10 CFM..
.
A-holes. Hey every group has to have one. And I have been elected to be the one. I should make that my tagline.
makes sense ... thanks for the clarification.
Looks like a central vac is going to be added soon.
I installed Nutone by myself about 4 years ago. The company website has specs for the power rating. Bigger houses and more outlets require bigger motors, but even 30 foot hose is better than a stand-alone vacuum. Plan for 30 foot hose and locate the outlets in the central spot on the floor, figuring that a hose is not going to be used stretched straight. Nutone also has suction driven power head but it does not work well. The company rep said that if I wanted to use this power head, I should have gone 1 motor size bigger. They also have electric power head but you need to wire an outlet close to the vacuum ports. I took the stand alone vacuum we were using, removed all the unnecessary parts, used some fittings so I can connect the 30 foot hose, and clean the area rugs here and there. This setup is a bit unwieldy, but the satisfaction of having saved money and recycled the old vacuum is priceless. Also get the one with a bag for easy dust removal and definitely the exhaust should go outdoors.
The piping is thinwall 2 inches. Just about anything that gets into hose will go through the pipe. Watch out for crayons, pencils, etc. which may get stuck around the bends. My feeling is any name brand is fine. I went to vacuum repair shop and asked. I chose Nutone because the distributor was closer. Good luck.
Hi There!
For me using beam is a good idea. I already installed it at my house and it really helps. Very comfortable to use. :)
is there an optimum hose length?
I do like CV but had one in my last place and the thing that really bugged me was dealing with a 30' (or longer?) hose.
Would a custom 20' be better?
John