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Ceramic wall tile

| Posted in Construction Techniques on June 25, 2002 04:11am

Need some advice.  Been asked to submit a price to re-tile a shower stall, about 3 ft x 3-1/2 ft x 8 ft high, including the ceiling.  One:  removing the tile – thought I would pop them with a hammer and/or pry them off the wall with a putty knife.  Is there a better way?  Two: never done a ceiling – any tricks?  What mastic would be best?

 

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  1. joeh | Jun 25, 2002 04:22am | #1

    El Cid is about to lose his asss is my bet.  You are assuming (bad idea, that) you will just "pop" these tiles off with a as yet undetermined kitchen utensil and have a smooth ready to tile surface? What about the pan? Tile that too?

    Are you assuming that this will be a pleasant afternoon's work and you'll be ready to apply fresh mastic and tile away in the morning?

    Probably it's NOT going to happen that way. You might be way ahead on this one to bow out & suggest they get an estimate from someone in the tile business, or at least experienced in the field. Or be prepared to learn it the hard way.  No wishing to offend, but your question indicates trouble ahead. :) Joe H

    1. FastEddie1 | Jun 26, 2002 03:03am | #4

      No, Joe, don't think I'll lose too bad on this one, because my price will be high enough to either scare them off, or cover everything.  The tiles will be plain 4" square.  It's an upstairs bath in a 30+/- YO house.  Trying to sell it, need a little fixin.  Overall it's in good condition, but it really needs a complete re-do.  I think the carpet is original, or at least really old, bc it's dark brown short shag, very wrinkled.  Travertine tiles on the kitchen floor, original cabinets & sink, etc.  Has a lot of character, could be a pretty neat house.

      Thanks for the ideas and cautions.

      1. Sancho | Jun 26, 2002 06:08am | #5

        Maybe the tile substrate is floated and that brings up another bag'o worms. So be sure what the substrate is before you bid.  Darkworksite4: When the job is to small for everyone else, Its just about right for me"

  2. CherryCreek | Jun 25, 2002 06:12am | #2

    I have to agree partly with the other reply, DON'T UNDERESTIMATE THE WORK INVOLVED!  1. Expect to lose whatever is behind the existing tile when you remove them.  So, include re-sheathing the walls.  2. Expect to find some plumbing or water damage issues.  Either have the plumber ready or be prepared to solve the problems yourself.  3. What is the pan?  There are great membrane products on the market for waterproofing.  Make sure the pan is sealed.  4. Regarding the ceiling, what size tile are you wanting to hold up there.  A good mastic will work well up to about 8x8 wall tile.  I like Mapei's Ultra Mastic (not the Type 1).  Anything larger than an 8x8 wall tile will reguire mortar.  The last shower I did the ceiling in was with 13 1/2" porcelain floor tile.  A good trowelling of mortar and screws and fender washers at the corners, worked great!  I only use Mapei's UltraFlex RS - a fast setting mortar.  5. What about grout?  Word of warning: epoxy graout is the ultimate for a shower situation.  But, unless you are a very, very patient person, don't try the ceiling!

    I won't quote a removal unless I new EXACTLY what is involved.  Hourly rate is the only way you know your time is covered.  Good Luck!

    1. User avater
      JeffBuck | Jun 26, 2002 01:14am | #3

      wow....I never woulda thought about screws and washers for the roof! Great idea, ............Hope you don't mind if I steal it.

      And back to the demo.........without seeing it.........I'd be thinking a whole tear out and start fresh may be the way to go. Sometimes they come off...sometimes they don't. If the first few don't........taking the backer/drywall with it would be alot quicker. Jeff   She's exotic ,but not foreign, like an old Cadillac......she's a knockout!

      1. jmarcus007 | Jun 26, 2002 07:35am | #7

        Can anyone suggest good (meaning cheap, effective, and fast) ways of proctecting the tub/pan when removing and replacing wall tiles?

        1. User avater
          JeffBuck | Jun 27, 2002 03:10am | #8

          tarp? jeff   She's exotic ,but not foreign, like an old Cadillac......she's a knockout!

          1. WebTrooper | Jul 16, 2002 05:32am | #13

            Plywood!

            Hi everybody,

            Cut a piece of 3/4" plywood to fit around the rim of the pan if there is a rim, or to cover as much of it as you can. Use about 20 layers of masking tape to protect the rest of the perimeter if necessary. It's a simple, cheap process and virtually fool proof. A tarp under the plywood wouldnt hurt.

            Also, I worked on one of these 30 year old houses with an upstairs shower. The wall tile was set in thick set with metal lath - and the tiles would not come off without taking the morter with it. I went down to the studs with a little help from my faithful old rotery hammer. It took 3 layers of 1/2" backer (Durock) to build the thickness back up. I also replaced the plumbing while I had everything apart.

            Now, you said your price would cover any situation. The labor for this one was just under $1,300. That was an hourly job ($35/hr X 36 hrs if memory serves me right) and I saw it comming when I estimated it. Knock on the wall. If it's like knocking on a sidewalk, be prepared.

            Finally, you're looking at a relatively small job with a variety of possible hidden surprises. This is an time and materials (T&M) job.

            ~ WebTrooper ~

            BTW, I really dig that idea of the screws and washers. Last ceiling I tiled (8x8 tiles) I was using dozens of 1x2s to hold them - which i still have!

        2. rez | Jun 27, 2002 06:52am | #9

          lay down an old quilt then cardboard.

          1. User avater
            RichBeckman | Jun 29, 2002 06:52am | #10

            Just be sure that that "old quilt" is really ready for the trash. Lots of old quilts worth lots of moolah!

            Rich Beckman

            Marion, IN, Home of the Quilter's Hall of Fame!!

          2. rez | Jun 29, 2002 07:35am | #11

            ok, an old beat-up comforter from sears previously used to wrap furniture when moving after it quit looking new in the house and you always kept it around for such a time as this.

    2. rez | Jun 26, 2002 07:30am | #6

      cherrycreek- could you expound a little more on the screws and washers on the ceiling tile? Define it a little more. thanks

      1. CherryCreek | Jul 16, 2002 04:18am | #12

        Took me a while to get back to you, sorry. I was using a 13x13, 3/8 thick floor tile with 5/16 grout lines. I used fender washers (the lagre diameter washers with the small hole) and 1 1/2" screws in the grout lines. The corners were rounded on these particular tiles so I had to place the screw at the edge of each tile instead of at the corners. Tighten the screws to set the tile into the mortar.

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