Has anyone come to a happy medium with CFL’s? I am doing some remodeling, thought maybe I should go “Energy Star” rated fixtures. So do you go with a regular Halo type recessed can for about $10 ( not including trim) then screw in a CFL. Or a CFL specific fixture? Then if you want dimmable you need a CFL reflector bulb that is dimmable, or a CFL dimmable fixture that may cost $60 a pop. Don’t forget CFL specific dimmers.
Then what about this new “GU24 base bulb”? I’m just thinking 5 years down the line when the incandecent is phased out, I guess we will have screw base CFL’s but wonder if there is a better way to go. I don’t want to be yanking out recessed cans. Which I doubt would be the case, but just trying to keep up with technology a bit.
Thanks Jeff
Edited 2/24/2009 12:44 pm ET by jeffwoodwork
Replies
I couldn't justify the cost of the dedicated-CFL cans. We put in standard ICAT ones (a must, unless between floors) and filled them with the n:Vision CFLs (HD line). Pretty good color, and 1 out of 25 has burned out in 3.5 years. The NY Times did an article about CFLs a while ago and these rated very well.
Most of the rooms just have them for general lighting. Our kitchen has 3 layers of lights- 12V halogen pendants, undercab, and cans. I'd originally wanted dimmers, but then I let the sparkie get away w/ going cheap and not putting them in. It's never bothered me.
We have some of the dedicated 32W 4-pin dimmable CFL cans in my office. I think there's something fishy b/c we just had 7 go out at the same time.
Anyway, I'd keep it simple and inexpensive. If you're talking about a lot of lights, maybe putting them on a couple of switches. You could always get the dimmable bulbs and dimmers later.
I will be very interested in the responses you get. I am currently deigning a kitchen and I am wondering if I should use screw type CFL,s or pin type CFL's. My thinking is to use screw type so I am not locked in to a few manufactures of pin types.
i buy CFL off ebay for about 60 cents each ... i buy 100 at a time... might get one bad one in the bunch... have some that have lasted 3-4 years... some just a year... not 3 feet apart...
i get em in the 13w (60w light ) and 23watt (100w light) they last about the same...
if anyone has an opinion about them... it's usually they aren't fond of em... the reat don't care... no one says they "like" em... either they don't like em or don't care...
i have no proof but i think they save me money...
BUT people steal them... yep... out of rest rooms and stairways... they steal my bulbs... go figure...
p
I've been happy with the CFL's I've used in the 6" recessed IC cans installed in severals houses. I'm using GE's "soft white 65's", actually 15 watt that replaces a 65 watt R-30 incand. These look just like an R-30 indoor floods and are guaranteed for 5 years. They fit the trim just right. Of course, they're not dimmable and take about a minute to come up to full brightness, but there's no flicker and the color is great.
GH
I have installed Juno CFL cans, both dimmable and non, and will try not to do it again. They are expensive and so are the bulbs (they are pin base bulbs). They are a little more than one year old and I just had my first call from the owner that one has gone out... I swapped the bulb, no go, apparently it needs a new ballast. If that happens again soon I am going to be hassling Juno about it.
In my office I have a handful of standard 6" cans with screw base CFLs from Costco in them. The bulbs were very affordable, I can't remember exactly how much but it was low enough that I bought several packs.
Has anyone come to a happy medium with CFL's?
I have, but it's not a medium in the sense of an average or mean or the like.
I've got a few medium-base cfls, mostly in closets.
My real gripe/problem with them is that most produce too much light fof my needs. My present lighting design is low wattage for low lumen output. For instance, my LR is lit with three general fixtures and one task-lighting lamp. The three generals are 2 x 25w and 1 with 2 x 15W mini flood and 1 25w mini spot. The tesk lighting ti a 3-way lamp which is a 60-80-100. These wind up being sizes that are very hard to find in cfl.
But, that's my house, others' differ.
"The tesk lighting ti a 3-way lamp which is a 60-80-100."
You're gonna have to teach me on just how that arrangement works...
30-70-100 maybe. And I get them in cfl's, but I've never heard of a three way that doesn't add up.
Well, now i may have to go look in the cupbboard. May be a 30-70-100.
I know I use the middle setting which runs in the 70-80W range.Occupational hazard of my occupation not being around (sorry Bubba)
They're not common, but sometimes I see them at Lowes. Be sure they're in the color rendition you desire.
Recently I got one at Walgreen's but it was a daylight bulb and broke by the time I got it home.
You must have eyes like a lemur.
Tu stultus esRebuilding my home in Cypress, CAAlso a CRX fanatic!
Look, just send me to my drawer. This whole talking-to-you thing is like double punishment.
No, he's right.
The fixtures that use these bulbs are commonly multibulbed beasts. Getting 4 to 8 of these all together with that output he describes would be practically blinding.
Somehow, we need microcfl's for these very high cost decorative fixtures found in foyers, entrances, etc. If they are gonna phase out incandys, that means the fixtures gotta be exchanged out. Some sparkies or handyboys are gonna make out if they focus on this market.
Somehow, we need microcfl's for these very high cost decorative fixtures found in foyers, entrances, etc. If they are gonna phase out incandys, that means the fixtures gotta be exchanged out. Some sparkies or handyboys are gonna make out if they focus on this market.
You have struck a "proud" nail very squarely upon its head (if to little noticable effect).
There is a huge market pendant in 3-7w fixtures that are in things like appliances, exit signage, night lighting, decorative fixtures and the like.
I have a torchier which is nothing but a source of ambient (read: not bark your shins) light, it has 15w incandescent lamps in it. That garners a measured 0.5FC in the room. (Dang it, I've been celebrating mi amigas employment, so hanged if I can genereate FC/W to lumens in my head just now) Just no low-output CFL lamps in that range.
Which is hugely annoying, that is a perfect range for LED lamps, yet the lamp manufacturers seem bound and determined to chase the percieved need for 60, 75 & 100W equivalent incandescent lamps. Reads stupid to me, but, I find myself alone in this argument, sad to say.
Occupational hazard of my occupation not being around (sorry Bubba)
You must have eyes like a lemur.
Been accused of worse in my life <g>
Have an excellent record of vitamin A uptake and retinal rod performance (have been abloe to resolve objects in a darkroom by the illumination of the radium face of the timer, a time or two, too).
I also have a decent-strong background in the long-hair, egghead facets of lighting design, too (better than two decades, come to cases). No vistors to my house have complianed of inadequate lighting--but part of that is in supplying task lighting "to need" as well.
But, I have to admit to liking it dark. This is Texas. Dark equals cool. Cool is good. I like cool. QEDOccupational hazard of my occupation not being around (sorry Bubba)
CFLs have come a LONG way in the last few years ... and are still changing. Screw in or hard wired ... doesn't matter much. Pay attention to the color temperature (e.g. 4100K) to ensure you have consistency.
I'm just learning that many/some CFLs are dimmable on an incandescent dimmer. Just heard this from a rep from Phillips lighting. Need to do some homework, though. I didn't learn enough to teach you (my brain was full that day).
You can buy hard wired CFL retro kits for recessed cans.
I'd encourage you to simply ramp up your knowledge base to enable you to make the best decisions for yourself. LOTS of CFL options available. Tune in and turn on!
One caveat:
Dimmable cfl lamps are available. However, putting a dimming switch on a circuit doesn't assure the NEXT occupant will be smart enough to know to ONLY install dimmable lamps. Because CFLs are the ballast, too, you have to remember to choose the right ones, while the cans with dimmable ballasts (though expensive) shouldn't be a problem.
I'm learning that you don't need special dimming ballasts ... at least that is what I understood the rep to say. I may be wrong, here. But your point is still well taken ... if the next guy doesn't understand what the special requirements are, the next guy could find himself w/ issues. Maybe need to label inside the can the special lamp/ballasts required ... or whatever it takes to give the next guy the clue that they have to look for something special.
I'm still learning and the technology is changing so much, it can be difficult to keep up with it.
I just did a kitchen remodel with both standard Halo "rework" and "new work" cans. There's a 2nd floor so I didn't have insulation issues. She wanted dimmable ceiling lighting on 3 circuits. I used standard ~$20 Lutron dimmers and model "65" A-base screw-type DIMMABLE R30 size CFL floods, which actually are 15W. These are brand new products. I tried both Home Depot (Philips brand I think) u-shaped filaments inside and Lowe's (GE brand) with spiral filament inside. Both stores are about $12 a bulb, but Lowe's (GE) sells a box of 4 for ~$44. Side by side, the GE looked better and seemed to dim more nicely. Let's face it nothing will compare with Halogens, but there is no hum, no flicker, etc. Most folks won't be able to tell the difference -- they sure have come a long way with fluorescents. I also tried all the trim covers they had, and the 310W (white baffles) was the nicest. When you install the cans, place the socket plate as deep as it will go for the CFL R30, about 6 inch from the bottom.
Edited 2/25/2009 8:52 am ET by Pixburd
Edited 2/25/2009 9:01 am ET by Pixburd
Edited 2/25/2009 9:04 am ET by Pixburd
Personally I always stick with the basic medium base screw in bulb fixtures unless there is a real compelling reason to use something else. The replacement bulbs are cheap and easy to find and I expect them to stay that way as it has been the most common bulb system by far for the last 100 years, the installed fixture base is immense. Pretty much anything else means that you can't pick up a replacement at the grocery store now, and if technology moves in a different direction, you won't even find them in the big boxes in 10 years, you will be going to specialty lighting suppliers.
The Big Box guys think that incandescent lights will only be available for another year or two. I can see some of the "economic stimulus bill" being spent to expedite the transition.
I think incandescent bulbs will be around for somewhat longer than that but assuming that they are gone in five years, the medium base will still be here. For the near future, most of them will probably be CFLs with LED's coming on in at least some applications and very possible with future technologies that we don't know about yet but they will all be available with medium screw bases that will fit in that light fixture your great-grandfather installed in 1915. I am not so sure about that specialized base for a particular wattage CFL tube.
I had the same dilemma. I was looking at the dimmable CFL cans from Halo, but even at $60/can they were waaaay too expensive for my tastes. Best thing to do would be to stick with a good manufacturer like Halo or Juno, and hope they produce retrofits. For instance, Halo currently makes an LED retrofit for all H7 can styles. I'm sure the other manufacturers will follow suit, but it'll be easiest (and perhaps cheaper?) to find good retrofits for name brands. Not to mention that I was able to lamp my entire house with H7ICATs for cost of two dimmable CFL cans.Z
The Big Box guys think that incandescent lights will only be available for another year or two
Well, like so much of Big Box thinking, that's part right. Legislation exists that prevents any further US production of 100w or larger lamps starting this year. Mind you, that does not affect non-US production, nor of sizes under 100W, or any PAR lamps. It has been used as some sort of dire cadgil that we ought change our wicked ways or stockpile or the like.
Now, if we could find a way to get the foriegn manufactories to stop using candelabra bases <g> Have not seen cfls in "b" or "c" bases yet . . . Occupational hazard of my occupation not being around (sorry Bubba)
"Now, if we could find a way to get the foriegn manufactories to stop using candelabra bases <g> Have not seen cfls in "b" or "c" bases yet . . "
I just saw some at Lowes two days ago. Even had base adapters from regular base to candelabra bases. I almost bought some, but the bulbs were distorted in size compared to what my fixture would use.
Even had base adapters from regular base to candelabra bases. I almost bought some, but the bulbs were distorted in size compared to what my fixture would use.
I'm going to guess that "c" base to medium base adapters are sledom going to pass muster with the verious design Committees out there, not on their chandeliers and sconces and such <g>
Saw some cfl C base lamps at the specialty lighting store--they've sold zero as they are ugly, ugly in a world of ugly, too.
Still have not seen any in the 3-5W equivalent lumen output yet, either. (The under 10W equivalent cfl lamps are really like 35-40W output incandescents--which is not a good fit for low FC lighting schemes.)Occupational hazard of my occupation not being around (sorry Bubba)
I was at the HD Big Box today and talked with the elec. sales guy. I was looking at their dimmable CFLs and they had a candelabra-style dimmable lamp with 15 W equivalent. It came with a medium base adapter, too. It was hideous looking IMHO, but it did dim. So if you wanted to use it in a multi-lamp fixture it would at least be able to be toned down some. Otherwise, I thought "why dim a 15 W lamp?"
The selection of dimmable CF lamps was pretty limited.
Also, he said their store no longer stocked cans with pin-type PLs, only med. base for CFLs or incandescent use. Looking at their shelves, they are obviously NOT in a big hurry to phase out the incandescent lamps yet despite the upcoming mandate.
Otherwise, I thought "why dim a 15 W lamp?"
Well, as a point of fact, the lumen output (and hanged if i can generate the conversion after this many adult beverages) on that 15W CFL is around 60, 64W of incanescent lamping, which can want more dimming than a 15w incandescent lamp.
Consider that exit light fixtures use 3-7w C base lamps typically. Your average MW uses a 25W appliance lamp to illumninate the entire appliance. Or a cheap vent hood may use a 30-40W fixture/
These are values that LED lamps could easily reach, and right now, with off-the-shelf technology. So, why aren't they?
Stick a 15-20W equivalent CFL in that venthood and try to cope with 60-75W equivalent lumen output, It's just not right. (It also causes headaches and eyestrain, from having too much light in comparison to near-by lighting.)Occupational hazard of my occupation not being around (sorry Bubba)
"Well, as a point of fact, the lumen output (and hanged if i can generate the conversion after this many adult beverages) on that 15W CFL is around 60, 64W of incanescent lamping, which can want more dimming than a 15w incandescent lamp."Point well taken. What I was trying to convey that this ugly candelbra light was 15W "equivalent", so at what -15 lumens per watt ?- that's putting out only about 225 lumens. So, it could be throttled to be somewhat reasonable I guess. But at what color? Beats me.I am patiently awaiting the advent of some decent LED replacements for residential application. Got 'em in my '50 Shoebox!
Was listening to a fellow on the radio discussing disposal of CFL's due to mercury.
His last statement was in 5 years LED's will be the norm. Changing a light bulb will be a thing of the past.
my kid uses her ipod to navigate in the dark.