Before P.H. boss left on his 3-week vac.(after denying me a 3rd paid wk. after 7.5 years) He had a meeting where he handed out “revised” DOE’s (Definition of Expectations) for the project manager and the project leads.
Basically every thing the PM has been screwing the pooch on for the last year, is Now a shared responsibility with me, as project lead.
My question is this:
How “legal” is it for him to add to my responsiblities with out a increase in compensation.
My DOE is three pages long, and “Perform carpentry tasks” is one line in the middle of the second page!!
I feel like I am living Dilbert strip set in the remodeling business!!
Mr T
Happiness is a cold wet nose
Life is is never to busy to stop and pet the Doggies!!
Replies
So is the last line ... "and other duties as assigned" ?
There's probably nothing wrong with what he did, except maybe the way he did it. It could be a problem if he changed you from an hourly to a salary classification without changing your pay.
Whenever you are asked if you can do a job, tell'em "Certainly, I can!" Then get busy and find out how to do it. T. Roosevelt
Sorry to hear about your "promotion " .
What your boss is doing sucks, but is probably legal, depending on how your DOE is worded.
Can't you just sit down with him and work out some kind of fair compromise? I know thats probably easier said than done, but at least letting him know how you feel may have some preventive effect in the future.
good luck!
The most dangerous place to stand is on one of the lower rungs of a corporate ladder. Get to the top or get off! :-)
Look around , is there any place else you would rather be?
Yes,I made it. No,not hard. Yes, a long time.
1. Your vacation time and his vacation time have zero relationship.
2. So far the boss has been getting everything he wants so whats to make him think this is no longer the case?
3. Tell him this changes your original agreement. He has basically side-stepped the negotiation portion of the process. You must bring it back into the program. Be prepared to take action if he refuses to negotiate.
* a) That speaks volumes for his intent and concern for you. You probably already know this.
* b) Keep in mind that, judging from the new DOE, he trusts his Leads more than his PMs. The Lead's insights might be more relistic while the PM's demeanor might be more Client friendly. He needs both, but it's the PMs who are falling short. Ask if the PMs are taking a pay cut since they now are sharing their work load.
* c) Speak from your strengths. Be consice. Short sentences. Speak your mind.
* d) Action taken can be following his new DOE - to the letter. Most time when people come up with these they also include rules/ proceedures which aren't very well thought out. This might be more work for you initially but it will serve a greater point.
* e) Do NOT quit, or even threaten to quit. At most, tell him you are dissappointed. When you accept another job, give him 2 weeks notice and remind him that you had told him you were dissappointed with his new DOE terms.
4. No one is going to look after you better than yourself. Others won't even consider looking after you/ your interests if you don't.
5. Every relationship has a cycle and or life span. This is a milestone which should be acknowledged.
6. Start looking for work elsewhere. You will feel more confident if you use the time while he is on vacation to research employment opportunities with other contractors.
* a) Knowledge is power. When your boss returns, this will give you self-confidence - knowing what your options are, how other GCs are running their biz, and if this is or isn't the lesser of evils.
* b) Many GCs love it when approached by "go-getters" rather than job seekers who are looking for work because they don't have any.
* c) It's easier to find a job when you have one, aren't under a time constraint, and feel in control of your destiny.
7. Judging from your recent posts you are itching for a move. Be proactive, dream it, plan it, take action!
F.
Edited 7/3/2004 11:59 am ET by Frankie
Hey Frankie ... you writin' a book or teaching a class? That's an excellent answer.
Whenever you are asked if you can do a job, tell'em "Certainly, I can!" Then get busy and find out how to do it. T. Roosevelt
Those who can: do. Those who can't; teach. Those who can't teach; write books.
But what if you can do all three?
LOL!
F
<<Those who can: do. Those who can't; teach. Those who can't teach; write books.
Those who can't teach; teach teachers
Those who can: do. Those who can't; teach. Those who can't teach; write books.
But what if you can do all three?
You forgot Those who just who just get on the net to goad people with advice that has NO relation ship to their situation except in the givers mind.
Not you , mind you.
Thanks again!! Mr T
Happiness is a cold wet nose
Life is is never to busy to stop and pet the Doggies!!
thanks for the advice.
I already knew most of what you said, I just needed to hear it from some one else to jar my memory.
after 7 years I am ready to move on.
but I gotta see whats out there before I take the leap.
Can't really afford a pay cut right now.
But then again when can anyone ever afford one!!
Thanx again!!Mr T
Happiness is a cold wet nose
Life is is never to busy to stop and pet the Doggies!!
Where Upstate are you?
F
Beautiful Elmira NY
The Buckle of the rust belt!
Voted the 247th best city in the country out of 250.
Mr T
Happiness is a cold wet nose
Life is is never to busy to stop and pet the Doggies!!
Who do you work for???
Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming.... WOW!!! What a Ride!
If I tell you I would have to kill you!!!Mr T
Happiness is a cold wet nose
Life is is never to busy to stop and pet the Doggies!!
"Before P.H. boss left on his 3-week vac.(after denying me a 3rd paid wk. after 7.5 years)"
Why don't you start your own business and then you too can enjoy the benefits of your labor?
Be proactive.
Jon Blakemore
It's like I say after I go on a rant about my place of employment. If I really didn't like it I wouldn't be there every morning at 7:00 a.m. You've been whining about your boss and company for awhile (same as I do) You either don't have the confidence to leave. (if that's the case all employers need people like you) That's your fault. If your running a crew for him you can run a crew for anyone, including yourself. If you just like to batch then you just like to batch and you'll be there untill the wrong guy gets tired of it.
It's always easy to sit back on the outside and run the show for everyone else but until you become the man, you don't have any business grumbling about the man. He's the one that makes sure you've got a job every morning and get paid every Friday (even when he doesn't) It aint easy on the other side of the fence. You think you can do it? Try it. Think about it real hard before you knock it.
You think he's just throwing more crap on you? Maybe it's more efficent to have you do it. If the PM is as screwed up as you say, then let him screw up his own job. If you stand around in the background bickering and whining about him people are just going to feel sorry for him cause you go out of your way to pick on him. Understand? We've got a shop foreman that sounds like he can be the guys brother. We give him as long a rope as he wants to hang himself. When he leaves her it will be of his own doing no one else will be to blame.
As far as your initial question. Yep he can do anything he wants with your job description. As long as you stay there then you give him the right.
Who Dares Wins.
quit ...
start your own business ...
and become rich!
ahh ha ha ha ...
employees always have all the answers ...
wanna make the rules ... take some risk.
simple.
no risk ... no reward. You might get more than 3 weeks off though ....
Jeff
Buck Construction, llc Pittsburgh,PA
Artistry in Carpentry
I risk plenty my good man.
If you didn't know Carpentry is one the most dangerous jobs out there.
Risks don't have to be financial to matter.
And actually they are financial because if I do some thing stupid and get hurt I lose my livelihood.
Boss does something stupid and he losses some cash big whoop de doo!
and since I have been working for him, he has not lost any $$$
where is the risk??
The One year that things looked iffy, he actually told us he was considering getting out.
that's great!!! bail on your crew when you can't handle it!!!
It would really suck for him to have to live on what I make!!!
Don't give me the "you don't understand what it takes BS"
I have been in this biz for 20 years I have have made it my job to understand.
How else can I demand a better wage??
I read as many business articles as I do carpentry ones.
Don't insult my intelligence by telling me I don't understand.
It isn't rocket science.
It isn't easy but it isn't what bosses would have you(me) believe.
Yes I am updating my resume!
yes I am considering going on my own
Yes I went down to the Union hall and took the test.
Hell I have even considered changing careers altogether, I can certainly do anything else after 20 years doing this.
But I want this job to work.
there is potential here for me AND the Boss !
He just needs to understand that my constructive criticism is just that not a personal attack on him.
well I've Biatched long enough!!
HAPPY 4TH OF JULY!!
Mr T
Happiness is a cold wet nose
Life is is never to busy to stop and pet the Doggies!!
Hmmm, little sensitive towards the truth.
Anyway, one point I wanted to make. I was in mid level management for 25 years. Ran commercial maintenance operations. Pretty good at it too. And I was involved with money, budgets, hiring and firing of my crew etc. Won awards, made money etc.
When I went out on my own I felt as you do. I already had some rental property so I was used to some financial risks. I had a boat load of management experience so I was comfortable making decisions. I had dealt with employees so no issue there. I even spec'd equipment and researched so no issues on making good purchases. The only area I didn't know much about was sales and I figure, no problem I can learn.
What you don't see, and you wouldn't till you are here is the difference of being some of the package or being all of it. I mean there is no one to defer any decision to. You can't just call up personell or payroll to check on an employee question. You have to take time to check into it yourself.
You can't just order a truck from the guy we always get them from, because that doesn't exist. You make all decisions. Sounds simple but it will wear you out at times just in the fact that you deal with many decision fronts in the same day. You don't always get to be a salesman on Wednsdays, payroll on Thursday and order material on Friday. You may do them all on Tuesday.
Going to give everyone Monday the 5th of July off? Oh man, that job is behind should I give everyone a break or not? They have been really bustin butt, sure do need to finish that deal though in order to get the next job started on time. Besides getting done will alow me enough cash flow to get the next one started without problems. (just and example)
Loose a little money, no problem huh. I self finance. I keep a balance in my checkbook all the time. I can do most smaller jobs without a deposit and not sweat it. Yet I have had times where I had 12k in the check book and 16k in bills sitting in front of me. Tough decisions when you realize it affects the people that work for you, your family and your pride.
But hey, I can see you have it all down. I mean when the boss got a little emotional, probably from being worn down with business decisions and such he vents a little to you and instead of being reassuring you think of how it affects the business.........no I'm sorry how it affects you. And when you don't feel important enough or don't get what you want you don't look for solutions, you figure how it affects you. You. Maybe I read it wrong, but I don't think so. Jeff and Gunner are right. DanT
You need to scout out other opportunities and be ready to move. It would be fine to ask your boss to increase your pay to reflect the added responsibilities but what are you going to do if he says no? If you are going to be bitter about it, you will only be hurting yourself.
Your comments indicate that you think that the boss (and all bosses) take unfair advantage of you. As others have said, why don't you do better if it is so easy? Not to mention well paying? We have three long time employees whom we have offered shares in our company's partnership. They could buy in over a period of time using the extra income that being a partner would generate. We have successfully used this arrangement twice before. All three employees have turned us down. Why? Because they don't want the extra work! They can put in their forty hours, go home, play with their kids, do their own projects, and not think a lick about work for the next day, week or year.
These employees all have their share of disagreements with how we do things and would all like to be paid more but, unlike you, they understand that they have control over their own lives and that they stay with us by choice. They could make just as much money working for someone else because they are very competent carpenters. They could choose to travel and make more money. They could take on more responsibility and make more money. They choose not to and are not bitter about it.
You mention that you were angry when your boss wanted to quit. If you could simply step out of your shoes for just a minute, you might understand what this implies. As the boss you do have an obligation to your employees and their families. Why would anyone take on this obligation? Would you want to take it on? How much would you want to be compensated for it? How would you feel if you failed in your obligation by failing to get enough work or by making a poor decision? Your boss merely mentioned getting out from this crushing responsibility and you are pissed at him.
For all I know your boss is a complete ******, and deserves all the venom you have for him, but I have a feeling that you would think the same if he were a saint. He is probably just another guy trying to do his best, just like you. For your own mental well being, in this job or any other, try to consider this possibility.
What's keeping you from going out on your own? If you already understand the trade and business aspect, you've got a full deck. Remember, it isn't rocket science.
I'm sure you've seen the comparisons of the # of millionaire's (or maybe in this day and age multi-millionaire's) that got that way by being employees and the # that are self-employed or have a profit stake in a company. The facts are that in order to really be flush, you must start something yourself.
"It would really suck for him to have to live on what I make!!!"
Well, take his job and earnings. Beat him at his own game.
"He just needs to understand that my constructive criticism is just that not a personal attack on him."
I hope you understand that we are not attacking you. Just trying to help a fellow BT member out.
Happy 4th of July to all of you as well.
Jon Blakemore
Wow ... all that ... with an attitude too!
Risk my ####!
step up to the plate and then get back to me.
Your reply tells me you have no clue ....
I'm not even trying to imply you can't do it .... run your own show, that is ...
I've never met ya ... so how could I know?
But I do know your boss may be taking just a wee bit more risk than you.
You wanna find out what I mean ... give it a shot ... at the end of the first year ....
Get back to me. Hopefully you'll have a nice fat bank account ... but you'll still have a new understanding of the business term ... risk.
btw ... your boss owes you nothing more than a paycheck for the previously agreed upon amount for the hours you honestly worked ... nothing more ... nothing less.
You want loyality ... get a dog.
Maybe the union is the place for ya ... sounds like the entitlement attitude will fit.
Jeff
Buck Construction, llc Pittsburgh,PA
Artistry in Carpentry
Edited 7/5/2004 1:33 am ET by Jeff J. Buck
At the risk of argueing with a closed mind :) .....
Did you read my whole post??
or just the parts you disagree with?
Risk my a$$...
you bet
Step up to the plate...
Every day!
Been Hitting everything they throw at me.
Most times for extra bases!!
I'm sorry you can't respect that.
but in the scheme of my life it really doesn't matter.
Well I gotta go produce now.
As do you.
Keep up the good work and so will I.....
Thanks for your input.
Now I just got to sort it all out!!!Mr T
Happiness is a cold wet nose
Life is is never to busy to stop and pet the Doggies!!
look ...I ain't trying to fight with you here ...
and seeing as how this is your life ... why should I and why should you care, huh?
anyways ... I think you have the answer to your Q ...
You're not happy with the boss ... me, I'd leave.
Give a shot at running your own show .... I still bet you have a slightly different opinion of the boss and his vacations after you wear his shoes for a while ....
Not saying you'll turn around and think him a genius .... but after a coupla years of putting in a full day at work ... then putting in a full night at the home office ... then fielding calls over the weekend ... and fitting in "free estimates" .... you might have a different opinion of how more vacation time than the field guys ... fits in.
Anyways ... you're unhappy.
unhappy is unproductive ...
there's enough other companies out there ... and enough work ... that no one should stay where they're unhappy.
That's why I always say I run a happy job site ... dammit!
If ya ain't happy ... leave. I don't want any bad attitudes around ...
this work is hot/cold enough and everything it takes to build a house is heavy ... and most of it has to go over our heads ... so the last thing I want around me is someone that's unhappy ... I always tell them ... go ... find happiness! Leave me the hell alone .... I don't need your stress too .... I got plenty of my own.
Jeff
Buck Construction, llc Pittsburgh,PA
Artistry in Carpentry
What he is doing is perfectly legal. Just as legal as informing him that when he gets back from his vacation he may need to strap his tools on.
Have you considered that maybe the boss is giving you an opportunity to step up and play a leadership role? You mentioned in your original post that the current PM isn't doing a good job. Now you've been put in place to work with him, that means the boss trusts you.
The way I see it, you have an opportunity to grow with this company. However, if you have a meeting with him now and air your concerns before you've had a chance to prove yourself in this new role, you may blow it.
My advice is do the job he's asking you to do. Overdeliver against his expectations. THEN, after you've done this consistently for a while, sit down with him calmly and ask for the opportunity for a promotion/more money/more vacation...whatever you feel like you've earned.