I really like those contemporary-looking steel cable railings for decks and stairs. However, upon some investigation I find they cost about $65 a linear foot. Too much for me. Anybody have any ideas on how to create a railing that’s similar, or at least has that same kind of feeling to it, for less money? I don’t quite understand what makes them so expensive, but I keep thinking there must be a cheaper way to create it or something like it. Thanks for the suggestions.
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Replies
I'll let you know what price I get, if the iron worker ever gets back to me with a quote. We are building a new house and I requested a quote from this guy for exactly the same thing--3 levels and a bit of railing.
Iron worker promised me quotes a week after seeing my plans. Have called him about 4 times already...this was 2 months ago...we'll see what happens...
You may need to buy the hardware seperate from the metal posts. Meaning, get the metal posts fabricated locally then buy the hardware online. The hardware lets you insert the wire, tighten with a hex, then attach to the posts. I know I've seen them online. Maybe start by doing a search for deck railings? This is where creative Google skills help.
Kevin
It wouldn't be too hard to create your own system- I worked for a small suspension bridge company for the last four years, and wire rope fences along the sides were standard. two people could easily do a 250 foot bridge in a day (well, that's stringing it up, swaging the cables, and tensioning it- the posts were put up in an earlier step). For the ends, we swaged the cable around a thimble that was inserted into an eye bolt or eye nut. we usually used an eye nut and some stainless all-thread inserted through the last railing post.
You could measure the cable and have someone else swage it onto the hardware, or you could use cable clips to make the ends. the posts can simply be wood or metal posts with holes- but they must be very well anchored, because the railings won't help keep them upright or square.
A shop that does work on sailboats would be an excellent resource for this- they'll be able to do the swaging, and have access to a lot of cable ends- including some threaded rod that swages directly to an end of the cable- no eye needed. I've often thought that the railings that i see in magazines are not that well done- it wouldn't pass muster on the bridges i've built. I'll look around for a picture of a railing that i've worked on.
Okay, i found something- not very detailed, but it's what i found for now. good luck, and let me know if this made any sense.
zak
While I haven't dealt with them for a decade, I used to buy my cable from Feeney Wire Rope in Oakland, CA. They have a web site on Cable Rail systems. You might check with them and see what their price is. Of course, if you are on the right coast, freight might add a bit.
http://www.cablerail.com/index_2.html
$65 per foot! Give us the details of your quote, when you have it from Cable-rail. I have a cable-rail setup around my deck, and I cannot believe it was anywhere near that much when I got it from Feeney in '01.
it's not hard to make up... if you shop around ie...ebay you can get 1000ft rolls of cable... check with a rigging company (cranes ect... not boats) the fact it goes on a boat means it cost 5x what it does if it's used on land
p
I'm sure all the materials are easily available, I would be concerned about tensioning the cable. Is hand tight safe enough? The more you tension, the more force is on the corner posts.
My tastes run to the eccentric, but for what it's worth, I saw a railing in a house owned by a guy who runs a concrete block supply place done in reinforcing bar--even the handrails were like re-bar about 2" in diameter! The bars were painted black and didn't look bad, IMO, though my wife thought it was ugly. I was wondering about electrical conduit of some thin diameter steel tubing (but still strong enough for its purpose).
i've just built over 20 balconys... an ex industrial area loft conversion... I'll try and post some pics it's been awhile since i posted any... but have a electric over hyd punch press so it was nothing to punch thousands of 1/2 holes in 5/16" steel but i used 1/2" round cold rolled stock...threaded thru the punched holes (4"oc) and welded at each pass... simple & fast on a good day i was knock'n out 5-6 a day, 7' x 3' all steel balconys... have about $200 in material in each ... my low quote was $2800 each unpainted... my steel rods have the same lines as cable... my concerns with cable is keeping within code (4" ball test) 1/2 round was as small as i thought i could go and not worry about it getting bent up... I'm still play'n with some 3/8" hardened round... that stuff really doesn't like to bend but looks wimpy...
yes as with everything you have to be concerned with what you are securing anything to.. I wouldn't think hand tight would not work.. not slam'n you but if these are the type questions you are asking... I don't think this is a job thats within your scope of skills... but it's always good to be informed of options... i think it'd be real easy to put thousands of pounds of pressure on anything a cable system was secured to... like tight'n a guitar string... i'd want em to "ping"
pony
Five years ago the developer for my community used a contractor that charged $45/linear-foot for rot-iron fence and railings. This was the cheap-looking stuff and nothing to 'admire', in my opinion. I believe that material costs are only part of the consideration, and that local labor rates and competition are strong factors for pricing you may be seeing.
For instance, if we were Mississippi and 20 dealers/installers were available, I bet the system would quote for half the rate you got. But, if you were in San Francisco or D.C. with little/no competition then you probably could charge an arm and a leg. And while the modern style does have appropriate application (I like it in modern-styled construction), I do not think this is a commonplace or even a bulk in-use style to warrant easy delivery.
Also keep in mind the quote could be based on either the installer not really wanting to do it, or they are used to commercial clients (think deep pockets).
Yeah, whenever i've checked into using those style rails from a manufacturer, they've been up there. Can't really figure out why they're so expensive (love the look, but only seem to see them on buildings with unlimited budgets . . . probably explains the cost). Making up your own system is probably your best bet.
Just a side note, check with your local building department whether they'll accept them. A lot of places don't. If you look around you'll find some past threads here that address the issue as well.
You sound like a smart individual - definitely smarter than the guys quoting $65/ ft. After all, though you don't even understand what makes them so expensive and determines the $65 price, you want to lower it. What a brilliant approach! I wish I was able to do that.
Wait a minute. Not so fast. Let me think about this a bit more. You came up with an analysis, determined cost was too high and now want someone ELSE to figure out how to lower it. This is precious. You are even smarter than I thought a minute ago.
Please, please, will you mentor me? I need another person just like you in my life. Where can I sign up?
Sarcasm aside - Find cheaper labor, pay cash under the table, get someone without insurance, buy cheaper materials, find some hungry kid from an industrial design program who just wants someone to let him/ her design something, anything, promise some newbie more work and use of your job as a referral - oh there are so many ways to lower the cost. I am surprised you haven't thought of these yourself.
And SHAME on you all who have commented that you have seen others run 250' in one day so it can't really cost that much - if you don't count time spent meeting with clients, design/ engineering, surveying, layout, post fabrication, post installation, overhead and profit.
You ought to be ashamed of yourselves.
Frankie
There he goes—one of God's own prototypes—a high powered mutant of some kind never even considered for mass production. Too weird to live and too rare to die.
—Hunter S. Thompson
from Fear And Loathing In Las Vegas
Edited 1/4/2006 10:29 am ET by Frankie
Hey Frankie, what makes you so righteous? How do you know the person that gave the quote was insured, wasn't using cheap labor, yadda, yadda, yadda? Before you brow-beat the poster go look in the mirror first. Ok, go look at one of the fragments of the broken mirror.
I really do not see anything wrong in what the poster posted. You take an awful defense for some reason, and to a point to beat up on the poster. Please explain yourself.
Nuke, You should go read the ridge beam thread.
Ridge beam thread?
67830.1
OK Nuke, here’s my analysis:“I really like those contemporary-looking steel cable railings for decks and stairs. “ Inquiry stems from aesthetics, taste. Nothing wrong with this. It is an opinion. We all have a few.“However, [uh-oh, here’s the wind-up] upon some investigation I find they cost about $65 a linear foot.” Still harmless. The Poster has done some investigation – in terms of price. Price is important. We, here at BT, are also learning this is the benchmark price for this system where the Poster resides but it is useless info since the Poster has neglected to tell us WHERE, via their Profile or Post. So it lacks geographic context. Still not the end of the world.“Too much for me.” A fact, an opinion, a value judgment? I don’t know and don’t care. It is what it is.“Anybody have any ideas on how to create a railing that's similar, or at least has that same kind of feeling to it” [This is the pause.] The Poster wants what they want. It must be “similar, or AT LEAST have the same kind of feel.” Okay, cool. The Poster adds - [Wait for it]“for less money?” THAT is the true purpose of the initial Post. But, I get it. We all want to save a buck or score a deal. Let’s think about “the terms” so far: Contemporary looking, Steel cable railings, For decks and stairs and for less money.I don’t know about you but this seems like a tall order. Not that I shy away from these but it’s like Ford telling his first customers they can have any color they want as long as it is Black.Still no big deal though. It is a wish list based on naiveté. All we have is a clumsy and lazy Post from a Poster who is unwilling to invest anything but the time to write the question. No harm, no foul. Ordinarily, I would have just moved on if it ended there.BUT the Poster could not leave well enough alone. To substantiate the legitimacy of their query, he/ she states: “I don't quite understand what makes them so expensive,”This could be a humble admission of ignorance – poor sweet child –but he/ she follows with [now here’s the kicker] “but I keep thinking there must be a cheaper way to create it or something like it.” The Poster admits to lacking understanding, yet insists that another solution/ option exists and then asks US to provide the solution.I don’t believe I was being righteous; rather I was trying to satirize the Poster’s arrogance and the absurdity of the question.Adding greater insult to the “injury” was that some responses came from individuals within the construction, engineering, architectural fields which parrelled the Poster’s assumptions by only addressing limited facets of the building process.Zak writes: “It wouldn't be too hard to create your own system.” But he neglects to mention that he is a “Skilled Trade Worker.” When he states “two people could easily do a 250 foot bridge in a day” is he referring to people like the original Poster or “Skilled Trade Workers” who run wire rope fences along suspension bridges as standard operating procedure?Ponytl writes: “it's not hard to make up... if you shop around… get 1000ft rolls of cable... check with a rigging company.” If, if, if… NOT HARD?? Rebuilding a transmission isn’t hard either… if that is what you do for a living! Construction and design IS hard work - even when you do it for a living AND are good at it AND enjoy it.Draftguy writes: “Can't really figure out why they're so expensive… see them on buildings with unlimited budgets . . . probably explains the cost.” Yeah, that comes from the “Tell me how much ya got and I’ll tell ya how much it costs” School.Need any further explanation?Frankie
There he goes—one of God's own prototypes—a high powered mutant of some kind never even considered for mass production. Too weird to live and too rare to die.—Hunter S. Thompson
from Fear And Loathing In Las Vegas
I did a railing out of Speedrail components (Cinci. Ohio). I posted some pics awhile back, do a search under speedrail if you care to see.
http://forums.taunton.com/n/main.asp?qu=speedrail&find=Search&webtag=tp-breaktime&ctx=search&cl=632358&af=10000&o=relevance&be=0
Nice job!
View Image
Thanks.
Luckily I didn't have to put any mesh in there to comply with the 4" sphere rule. We had no railing all summer and no one fell off.
What makes them so expensive, in the words of Homer Simpson: "This contractor wants to charge me for material AND labor. Pick one, jerk".
As far as something "similar" that is cheaper and has the same "look" or "feel": Are you a client, GC or what? Nobody on a forum can say what may look and feel similar to you, or to your client. Work with your architect/builder/GC and have him/her show you different systems, then decide which one has the best cost/looks ratio for your taste.
DG/Builder
Do you watch NCIS on TV?
They have cheap to copy cable railings on the set.
I am still waiting for the OP to come back and tell me what the quote is when he or she gets it from Cable Rail.
As I said in an earlier post on this thread, I have a Cable-Rail setup on my house, and don't recall paying as much as $65 / lf for the materials.
But then again, mine was bought back in 2001, when steel products were probably half what they are now, maybe even less.
My design has a 1x3 tubesteel welded rail and posts, with the top of rail 36 inches above the deck, and below, 8 lines are stretched horizontally on centers a little less than 4 inches apart.
If the CABLE ITSELF is 65 per foot, then the cost is over the top, and only the very wealthy will have these types of porch railings. But if the SYSTEM of 8 lines is 65 per foot, then it is costly, but another story altogether.
Will someone please call Cable Rail?
Edit:
Just went to the Cable Rail site, and they have on line pricing for web orders! A 30 foot 1/8 diameter cable, complete with all fittings, goes for $49.10. That would bring the cost an 8-line setup to about $400, or less than $14 per lineal foot for the package.
The way they structure their pricing, the longer the run, the lower the price per foot.
Of course, this is just the bare material price for the SS cabling . . . railings, posts, installation, etc., all add to the cost.
But still, I would like to see a breakdown on the $65 per foot the OP brought up in the starter post.
Edited 1/4/2006 7:08 pm ET by Stinger
Several years ago I had a customer that wanted cable rails. I found Cable-Rail on line and emailed them the specs for my job which was a straight run of less than 50 feet. Their quote was $2800.00 or $56.00 a foot not including shipping. Of course their material package only includes the cable and hardware so I was still left with providing my own rails and standards. Instead I bought a 1000' roll of 3/16" (same as Cable-Rail's)braided marine stainless cable for $275.00 from my local hardware store. I ordered 12 stainless terminal ends and 12 stainless turnbuckles from a marine supplier in New Jersey for $680.00. I used 1" X 3" white aluminum for the rail and standards for which I paid about $100.00. It took 2 men and one helper day to cut, drill, fasten and install the cables. I charged the customer $3500.00 for the whole job. it still looks great and they loved it. I figure I saved them about $3,000.00 and I got a lot more business out of it.
You can see photos of that job on an old thread.
41070.1
Thanks so much to all of you who have given me such great ideas--much to think about and chew on, real viable options. The pictures you've posted all show very impressive work. Moreover, I greatly admire the thought and effort some of you put into helping whoever paid for the installations shown to get even better value from the job. Do any of you work in NJ?
In appreciation, Sherry
I put the original post asking about the cable rail, but I have no idea what NCIS on TV is. Is that a channel? Also, when you say it would be "cheap to copy", I wonder if you could be more specific as to what you'd have to purchase and where. You might have correctly guessed by now that I'm not handy; just not rich but I am interested in good design. And I'm game.
As for cablerail.com, I did call them before I made the original post. They were the ones who quoted me the $65 a linear foot figure. The customer service rep I talked to said I could price it by using the individual component prices they had on their website, but being not very handy or spatially oriented or technically challenged or whatever you want to call me, I didn't feel capable of doing that (am I allowed to blame it on being a female? Politically incorrect but happens to coincide with the truth in this case). So since I just wanted to get a rough idea of how much that type of railing would run ( to see if it was anywhere close to being in my price range), I asked the customer service rep to quote me a ballpark figure of what it would runto purchase all the components needed, and she came up with the $65 a linear ft. figure. Which I roughly calculated would run me about $650 for a railing to go on one side of a set of more-or-less standard interior stairs. Am I missing something here? I could be wrong, but that is what I heard, and I have to say I was really disappointed. Sounded like a lot to me, just as many of you have expressed.
To everyone who has replied and who would be willing to keep the discussion going until we can figure out something workable and affordable, thank you.
Thanks, Sherry
I just finished reading all the posts to my query. The picture that was posted looked great, I guess that's the speedrail. Did a welder have to make all the connections prior to installation?
Frankie, I can't imagine what would provoke such a bitter reply from a person. The $65 linear ft. price I quoted was mat'ls only. Would you find it so offensive if a person posted a question like "I like the look of a granite countertop but can't afford it. Can anyone offer an alternative that is suggestive of the look or feel of granite but less expensive?" There are a couple of solutions to that (granite tiles with small spacing, even some laminates that have a granite look and bullnose edge) that do not involve "chiseling" a contractor, exploiting illegal labor, risking an uninsured workforce, or otherwise compromising ethical behavior. Why would you be so offended that a person would pose a question about saving some money by using different materials, when that query has obviously produced some responses that show the imagination and creativity that others have previously used in resolving the same issue? I won't stoop to saying that perhaps a doctor could help to remove the large arthropod you seem to have lodged up Uranus. However, I will say you might find your own life more pleasant if you didn't seem to immediately suspect the worst of others.
Pax, Sherry
Sherry,
The speedrail goes together as it's name implies. There are little allen key (hex head) set screws that cinch the pipes in the connectors. I put all this together by myself in abour a day and a half. I believe the materials cost about $30/lf, but that includes shipping costs for 24' long pipes from Ohio. If you can get pipe locally it may be cheaper.The website of the company is http://www.hollaender.com (I think I spelled it right). There are some clone brands as well such as Quick Key (Clamp?), but Speedrail is the original with the name cast in to the pieces. They do offer infill panels as well, but their main market is industrial so you've got to be creative a little if you want to soften the look up some. If you care I can e-mail you more photos. There was another intersing railing design posted on the original speedrail thread I started by another BTer named Calvin, which was quite nice as well, you might want to look at that too.Good luck, let us know how it turns out.
I wrote a line by line analysis of your post (see post 67765.22). I thought, and stated so, that most of your post was fine, light on information (which you have since told us), but fine. My issue was in the line - “I don't quite understand what makes them so expensive, but I keep thinking there must be a cheaper way to create it or something like it.” I read - Though you lacked understanding, you refused to waiver from a "It must be so because I say it's so" attitude. I run into to many who dismiss the cost something on spec and then expect others to come up with a solution that is "similar, or at least has that same kind of feeling to it," which isn't "“Too much for me.” I find this disrespectful and rude. It is interesting that you have never even asked WHY is it so expensive. This is curious.Invest more of your own time - not money - in your investigations. Do a few Google searches, get pricing from more than one vendor and spend more than 2 mins writing a post and we will have a completely different discussion.There is a fine group of people here at BT as there is at Cooks Talk. Have you checked them out yet? Members are here to help during their available time - chiming in with and sometimes without creativity and expertise. This does not however, entitle Posters to assume we can provide answers which defy the marketplace, regardless of what you are or for that matter - aren't - thinking.One last comment: Though, I did use satire, described you as having a certain naivite, and as being lazy and arrogant – which I stand by - I did not “stoop” to innuendo or malice. You did.I am done with this thread. Comment amongst yourselves. I wish you well and hope you find what you need. Good luck.Frankie
There he goes—one of God's own prototypes—a high powered mutant of some kind never even considered for mass production. Too weird to live and too rare to die.—Hunter S. Thompson
from Fear And Loathing In Las Vegas
"One last comment: Though, I did use satire, described you as having a certain naivite, and as being lazy and arrogant – which I stand by - I did not “stoop” to innuendo or malice. You did.I am done with this thread. Comment amongst yourselves. I wish you well and hope you find what you need. Good luck."
Interesting. Based on your first post and now your last comments, it would seem that the original poster's interpretation of your words (bitter), and my interpretation of your words (sarcastic) led nowhere but your retreat. Even a cure for cancer wrapped in a most effective wrapper can be deemed worthless and unwanted. You succedded in both.
NCIS is on Tuesday at 8:00 pm CBS network. Their TV set has cable railings. Round poles with aircraft cable with turnbuckles. Looks industrial. And the show is pretty good.
Please read my post that discusses CableRail's online pricing, then come back and tell us how 65 per foot is derived. Thanks.
I've biolt severalwhere I used wood posts/w commercial[large,heavy] chain link top rail. the top rail inserts into a hole-saw cut in the posts, then a tensioning cable runs thru the top rail. you can buy a reasonably priced hand swaging tool cheap on E-bay. use forged[not welded] I bolts and make the cables tight enough to get a clear A-note. check this out. jim
If your job requires fittings specific for railings, and all stainless, have a look at http://www.csjohnson.com/arch.html. Still pricey, but cheaper than Feeney if you find the right outlet.
If you can use galvanized, make it up with stainless cable and galvanized cable clamps and turnbuckles from your local hardware store. Assembled carefully, this system will have a very pleasing appearance. Done it several times.
PS - TWO clamps at every cable termination when using the hardware store system!
Bruce
Between the mountains and the desert ...