Not sure if this is really a business issue.
We’re trying to put together a check list of every decision and every component of a bath and kitchen remodel. To make an easy/available source to go to when questions arise and to ensure all decisions are made with no last minute uh oh’s
Stuff like flooring, plumbing fixtures etc is pretty obvious, it seems drawer pulls and even the type and color floor vents get left until the last minute, wood/metal type and color finish etc. door stops to match the door knobs and hinges etc.
does anyone have a check list like this if not, can anybody think of stuff that is small but important and often neglected?
It would be nice if it didn’t come to the end of a project and you find out you need X and it’s 3 weeks out on a special order.
Replies
Cag,
I'm nearly finished with a bathroom on my second floor and here are some of the issues that came up with us. Some of the items we had an idea about others we just didn't know until it was too late.
cabinets.
Will the doors and draws open without hitting anything? I moved my tower away from the wall enough to clear the casing when the door was open, only I forgot about the door knob.
We ordered a deeper tower at 15" w because they didn't have the 15"w in a regular depth. I had the room on the wall for it but forgot about the switch, now that is on the outside of the bathroom.
The countertop should have been deeper. It barely covers the front edge of our full overlay fronts.
We ordered a one piece acrylic tub/shower but go no information on how to frame it for the finish.
We have a whirlpool but still have not found a real good way of leaving an access to the front of the unit.
We will have different heights between the bath and hallway due to the tile and engineered wood, so you'll need to plan for the transition.
We have radiant heat and had to plan on keeping from being too close to the toilet due to the wax ring. It would have been nice under the shower floor.
You may want a platic trim for the casings inside the baths and good paint that will resist mold. We got vents that would move more than enough air.
We had hoped to place the sub panel in the bath closet but you can't do that so that may be another consideration.
I hope some of this will help, Turtleboy
for your whirlpool tub access... i have used the premade doors from mills pride from HD they come in every size look pretty good and i hold em in place with velco strips... has worked for years... ( i've used the raised panel look ones that are fused plastic covered)
pony
i started out with nothing and have most of it left
Those are key points, and issues that need to be dealt with on the front end, all to often "surprises" like that really shouldn't be a surprise at all if enough planning goes into the project. I'm not suggesting it's your fault or anything negative, it happens on any project there's just not enough time, all the time, to think through everything, and when ever you are done you're going to realize there was a better way to do something or a better product etc. Hind sight is 20/20 and all.
What I'm looking for is a list of products/materials a customer needs to make decisions on, like light fixtures, drawer pulls, type of fixtures, cabinets, down to the little things like floor vents and what color the electrical cover plates and outlets need to be.
It seems on some of our projects stupid little parts hold up the final pull out of job because they were not thought of early enough, if the material needs to be ordered that can require a lengthy lead time...
Part of me things having the color of outlets down on paper is a bit much, but I think I'd rather have to much info instead of not enough.
Regarding things as small as color of cover plates, we usually have something in the bid that refers to matching the new stuff to the existing stuff in the house, if possible.
A line similiar to that is some of our spec's not all, but that doesn't mean the customer read them or won't change their mind later and while it would be nice to tell the customer it's going to cost "x" to come in and change the coverplate and outlet color, in reality it doesn't always fly and might be impractical to piss off the client over something small.
Neil,
I have been hammering the boss to make/use a list like this for a few years now.
I think it should be a part of the INITIAL design process.
Give the customer an extensive list of details that need a decision.
Maybe even rank them with a priority.
then explain to them (verbally and in writing) that any undecided items WILL cause delays and UPCHARGES (Money talks loudest sometimes)
Also to ease the initial shock you could add a check box for things that would be left up to the Designer or contractor or sub(only if feasible)
Hey Jerrald Hayes, you out there?
This is right up your ally!
I could rack my brain and come up with literally Dozens of things that have delayed jobs uneededly.Mr T
Do not try this at home!
I am an Experienced Professional!
Neil, a generic list or outline for remodels is what you need to start with. Your second paragraphs shows you know how to do that yourself.
What's more difficult are the subheadings. The complications crop up in the details like brands, styles, materials, colors and coordinations, along with functionality and aesthetics. Keeping up with what's available, what's not, what's a proper fit for the particular job and knowing where to go for each item is, in itself, a full time job. Sometimes you wonder, "What did I ever do to deserve this headache?"
Each job I do has the same (almost) set of main points. Some points are skipped, like when it's not a total gut to the studs, but the list still starts with the list of subs required, then,
Design_____
Engineering____
Prints_____
Permits_____
Shopping_____
Dumpster_____
Site Prep____
Demo______
Framing____
Electric____
Plumbing____
Flooring____
Walls_____
Ceiling____
Doors_____
Trim__
Paint___
Fixtures____
You see the process.
Each, or at least most, have sub headings, which would include things such as type of flooring as in Advantech for the subfloor, Hardie for the tile backer, and then tile, grout and pattern selection. And each has a space for estimated time and materials entries.
Electrical would include fixture location and individual items that require owner selections such as styles, sizes, preferred locations, colors, etc. Plumbing, the same. Cabinetry, the same. Don't forget the scaled drawings and measure and measure and measure again and really KNOW the dimensions of the items you are installing. Don't assume that a 48" prefabbed cultured marble countertop for a 48" vanity base really measures 48". It don't.
Sometimes you get lucky and sometimes you get to help them shop (hold their hand). Sometimes the selection is made and then they are off on some trip and come back with some new ideas, with changes. But it's all in the game and when you are right it's profitable and fun.
Checklists like these can be difficult because of the various things that could be included on the jobs. After making a list like this for basement remodels, I'd suggest a large miscellanious section.
I'll be in the office tomorrow morning, if you'd be at all interested in checking that list out.
I would be interested in taking a peek at it if you wouldn't mind.
Thanks Neil
While you're on the knobs & hardware, don't forget towel rods/hangers, hooks, and the like. That's one that is both a design question, and a finish construction check list item. Especially if the client asks, hey can we change the towel bar to one of those cool towel heaters (holding up glossy magazine photo) . . .
Don't forget medicine cabinets and light fixtures. Shower enclosures--rod & curtain; stock door unit; or custom enclosure.
Design check list item: Store towels & etc. in or out of bathroom. If in, where (cabinet v. pantry)? Or on open racks.
Oh, and lights on a smart dimmer make a great feature. The lights (or a light) can be run down real low as a night light, but brought up with a push. Just $30 (full retail), same amount of time to install--customer goes "Ooh!" (sometimes)
Mirrors need a spot (especially with leadtime questions). While the large sheet mirrors seem to be de rigeur, a framed mirror over each sink, and maybe a framed full-height on the back of the door can be ncier to live with (and a couple of doxen s.f. mirror that does not need cleaning.
Design Q: Storage of "stuff" that's shaving, hair care, & the like. Some want it all hidden away, some don't. This can drive a need for more drawers or cubbies (or a tambor=fronted storage unit tucked in between a stud bay).
All That leaps to mind just now. May be more, yet (beaded Azec still has head thinking . . . )
check out the JLC February 1998 article "Plumbing Pitfalls for Bathroom Remodels" has a good starter checklist.
http://www.jlconline.com/cgi-local/view.pdf/e3801e891892bc40a9f28e860d1a97d5/www.jlconline.com/cgi-bin/jlconline.storefront/3fbeef92003b1986271a401e1d29064a
thank you
A bath and kitchen remodel, eh? There is no easy way, for you or the homeowners. What if your checklist model says that faucets must be chosen eight weeks before plumbing finish, and the homeowners choose some Swiss-made item that will take eighteen weeks?
I would say, and my name ain't Mr Micro for nothing, that you simply tell the homeowners that everything from the gas range down to the door stops needs to be chosen, including finish and trim options, colors, etc. Everything.
How can you give the client any idea of completion schedule without this?
Speaking of Bathroom remodels: Have any of you guys ever put in a utility garage off or on the counter top in a bathroom like they do in kitchens? I mean a place for your electric razor, hair dryer, electric tooth brush thingys that could remained plugged in and out of sight but close to the sink & mirror. Maybe a roll top type cabinet with electrical outlets inside?
As a women - it sure would keep things looking more tidy. Would love to see it in my home.
Modified medcine cab built into the wall.
Dedicated pull out drawer in the base cab with everything in it.
Who ever invented work didn't know how to fish....
Any decent bath fixture shop will have catalogs of various types of built-in medicine cabs.
My last bath redo had 2x6 framed walls either side of the double bowl vanity. One to hide the commode and the other to form the side of a walk-in closet. Anyways, I ordered two 37" (h) x 22" (w) 5 1/2" deep cabs with mirrored insides, glass shelves, and GFCI'ed outlet on the inside. She had plenty of room to keep her curlers as well as a hair dryer with the door closed.
Then on the commode side of the wall, had a custom built-in cabinet made to hold up to 12 rolls of TP as well as other devices.
On the closet side, a built-in shoe rack inside the closet.
But this also answers the original question. Lots of built-in storage. Unless you're dealing with a 20x40 bathroom, you'll need to maximize storage.
Maybe a roll top type cabinet with electrical outlets inside?
IMERC's on the right road, you just have to find a tamobor (the roll-top part) that will fit in a 4" medicine cabinet box. At the cabinet shop, our tambour supplier's hardware would get down to 5" as a minimum. Would have been very cool.
Only limitation is having a wall deep enough for the electrical box and the cabinet, too. Can't uses the sides, if you are as wide as a stud bay, as the box would have to be cut into a stud and the cabinet side. Can't use the top, as that's where the tambour goes. That leaves the cabinet floor, a poor choice, most likely.
Marty's idea of a drawer brought back a memory. One of my great-uncles had a drawer for his 'lectrical stuff. The outlet was on the back of a slightly shortened drawer. The power was connected by a "rat tail" of MC. Can't imagine getting that passed today.Occupational hazard of my occupation not being around (sorry Bubba)