For anybody who was following my progress on building a house in Brazil last year I’m back at it again. The last time I posted pictures was In March. I had to return to the states to work (I mainly remodel, with a house or two thrown in for good measure) but I returned to Brazil and restarted. So for any of you that want to see some photos, read some poor syntax and weak commentary — come on along.
For anyone that wants to see last years photos I had them in the photo gallery under Cheesehead building in Brazil (sorry about the lack of creativity)
These photos show a deck and stairs I made. The framing is Massaranduba and the decking is Ipe.
Replies
I compressed the photos a little and resent them. I haven't sent any photos for awhile and I forgot how many kbs they should be.
mac.. good to have you back..and nice work on the resizing..
how about some longer shots to show the scope ?Mike Smith Rhode Island : Design / Build / Repair / Restore
I'm on it Mike.
I wanted to add some commentary last night about the photos but I suddenly had to chase one of my kids around. Some people have emailed me and expressed an interest in seeing some different materials and other construction practices.
Last year was the start and I subcontracted out the foundation and first floor in the common Brazilian constuction called Alvenaria. Now I'm strapping on the belt and making mistakes. I decided to tackle this deck (which will be the main entrance once I put a hole in the exterior wall) and the stairs that go to an open basement and then the backyard.
It felt a little wierd to have my belt on with my Mag 77 in my hand with these cicadas making all kinds of noise and this family of monkeys that hang around. They don't seem to be afraid and apparantly have not heard the negative reputation of American contruction personel. They are going to get bannanas.
The wood for framing that is used here is Massaranduba. It is extremely dense and hard in order to resist the termites that are very active here. I used 3x6 lumber here(2.5 x5.5 actual) and a 10 footer was about all I could lift overhead and put in place with another guy.
I felt like a real rookie at first and was glad nobody was there to see. For one thing the wood was too thick to cut in one pass so I had to turn it over and cut this heavy wood again. The particles that emit from the saw are real hard and spray right in your face. The fastening is more difficult too. Everything has to be predrilled or the nail will bend. Sometimes when you drill you hear a popping noise and this hot red sap comes flying out, although this wood seems too hard to have pitch pockets The flutes of the drill bit fill up rapidly with a fine hard dust that at first proved difficult to remove.
I learned some tricks though and at least their common nails are really thick so once you get started just don't stop hammering. Hey, that's kind of catchy- once you get started just keep on hammering. Norman Vincent Peale- if you are reading this I want a footnote.
Hey McC, is this your house or someone else's? What is meant by 'Alvenaria'? And what does that lumber cost per BF down there?
I'm actually building my house. My wife is Brazilian so that's how I got here.
Alvenaria is a post and beam system made out of concrete and tons of rebar. The space between the posts is filled with nonstructural clay block and then stucco is put on the outside and inside. They use massaranduba wood for the roof framing and clay roofing tiles for the roofing. In residential and even most larger commercial jobs they form everything by hand using pine and even mix concrete by hand or with a cement mixer. I've never seen a concrete truck on a residential job, just piles of sand and aggregate. I did post some pictures until March of last year showing a crew I hired using this system. I should have probably posted under the same disscussion but I started a new thread since I'm starting anew. Check Cheesehead building in Brazil in the archives for the photos showing these guys at work. I have my safety glasses, ear protection, dust mask and gloves on and these guys don't even wear shoes! I'm glad I'm too old to be macho.
They sell the Massaranduba that I show in these photos by the lineal meter but the widths and thicknesses are in inches.
A 3x9 lineal meter (3ft. 3in) is about $8. A 3x12 lineal meter is about $12. That is wood that is fairly rough sawn, though better than our rough sawn, which I used in these photos. They have surfaced 3 sides for a few bucks more.
Wow, around a dollar per BF for the framing lumber. Does it need to be 3x or would 2x have enough strength for typical framing use?
You could use 2x, in fact it is way stronger than even Doug fir but what they mill is 3x. This wood looks pretty good when it is surfaced. I'm using it on an exterior beam that I'll be showing in a few weeks. Some things are cheaper down here but some things are more expensive. Things that are cheap down here (construction wise) are sand, aggregate and cement, which is exactly what you need for the majority of consruction here.
Interesting project. I like the palm tree through the deck (will it get taller, and will the deck allow it to get bigger?). Definitely different construction methods than in the states. Remember trips to Zihuatenejo and Freeport where people built until they ran out of money, then left everything until more materials were available. Very little mechanized equipment, rebar sticking out all over the place, etc.. Yesterdays roof was tomorrow's floor. I'll refrain about comparing monkeys on the jobsite though. ;)Bom esforço!
Obrigado,
I expect it to get bigger but there are many types of coconut trees so I'm hoping it grows real tall. My wife says that they can grow up to 75 ft. I have it framed so I can enlarge the opening easily.
People construct here a lot like you were describing in Freeport. They put up a wall or floor. Then when they get some money they might finish the outside of the wall. Of course with a concrete based structure you can leave it out in the elements longer than our system. Interest rates are the highest in the world here (at least as of last year) so bank financing is rare. In fact access to borrowing I think is hurting Brazil's development.
At least contractors are more often referred to as Neanderthals who are a little more intelligent than monkeys. We usually wear baseball caps to hide the sloping forehead.
Edited 1/29/2006 8:39 am ET by McCarty12
My missus recently came back from the Brazilia area - was fascinated by the place and loved it. I might go myself shortly. Interesting that materials could cost so much, tho. Like Mexico too - well, most hot countries - concrete is the major construction method. In Mexico they often build 'til the money runs out. And their social system is such that after 21 days of working, the crew are eligible for welfare support...one needs to have a couple of other crews lined up for continuity. I also discovered in Cyprus that if the rebar was left protruding thru the roof it meant that the house was not yet finished, and taxes would not be levied. Now, I suppose if I left my siding off, here, then that would be the same?
Where are you building - and would you recommend it to anyone thinking of retiring?All the best...
To those who know - this may be obvious. To those who don't - I hope I've helped.
I'm building in the city of Niteroi which is across a bridge from Rio. As much as I would like to be a local booster I don't think it would be a great place to retire if you didn't have connections here. The people are really great but some things are difficult. One is driving. I drove taxi when I was younger so I'm fairly lenient to flagrant drivers, but here crazy driving is taken to another level. I've never seen a policeman pull over someone for a traffic violation. Consequently there are people flying through red lights and doing all kinds of dangerous moves. When I am driving I am constantly on high alert.
It's a great place to visit though. It's a big country with a rich culture that doesn't hate Americans and they love Canadians
Thanks for the reply. I know what Latin drivers are like, too. Maybe not that bad, tho'. Interestingly, my missus had to travel under an English passport, as Canadians had to have a special visa, like Americans - something to do with political embargoes by the US, I think.
We'd probably stay further away from a big city, tho', if we went to live there.All the best...
To those who know - this may be obvious. To those who don't - I hope I've helped.
Remember St. Maartens/Martin's (depending on where you stood). For different reasons.
Stopped there during a cruise. Laid back on a lounge chair at the beach, fell asleep waiting for DW to change into her suit, and woke up to realize a gay couple had been taking photos of me sleeping. Then DW and I went for a walk along the shore at the part of the beach that was clothing optional. What the heck, we're on vacation. Didn't have the guts to do it myself, but many other people were nude.
For those of you who have never been to a nude beach . . . .
don't.
The gooseberry liquor is good, though. :)
Here are some shots of the steel framing I started to put up. I couldn't find any steel studs down here at first so I was going to try and have them sent from the US. But after looking into it I decided against it. There were just too many hoops to jump through. First I had to buy the steel from a company in the US, then hire another company to transport the material to Brazil. Then I had to hire a company in Brazil to receive the material and get it through customs. The material would be actually sent to a city about 800 miles south and then I would have to hire a company to bring it up to Rio.
I decided to forget it. Too much could go wrong and it would be too expensive. So I started to build the house in the conventional system which some of you saw last year. Just before we were going to put up the second floor walls I was taking a flight within Brazil and I saw in the airplane magazine a company that was making light gauge steel studs. I stopped construction and decided to go with the steel. I should tell them to get their website on Google.
You might notice that the joists are spaced pretty close together. The plan was originally designed to use 10 or 12 inch joists. Here the biggest I could get were 8 inch so I had to put them fairly close together.
Another picture shows the OSB that I'm using. There are no OSB-Plywood arguments here. OSB is the only sheet product that I was able to find here that I can use outside. It is treated with CCA. The CCA is actually in the glue. The treatment is mainly there to stop the termites.
The other picture shows the Massaranduba posts and beam that I will be using.
mac.. great pics.... l'd like to see the steel joists from the other angle
also.. if you can find a format of size that has the same resolution but a different size , your pics would show better..
right now they take more than one screen , so you have to scroll to view themMike Smith Rhode Island : Design / Build / Repair / Restore
also.. if you can find a format of size that has the same resolution but a different size , your pics would show better..
right now they take more than one screen , so you have to scroll to view them
I agree, but you can right click on the pictures, and select open in a new window. Try it, it's fun.
PS
If you are on a Mac I'm of no use.
I'm still working out the kinks on my photos. I have a different camera and computer from last year so it is different redemensioning pictures. I know that for myself ,when I click on a photo and it is coming up too slow I sometimes just move on to something else. I'm also trying to get a bigger picture photo of the project like you suggested before. I have a wall on either side of me and there are coconut trees in the front that impede the bigger picture. Across the street in front of my house another house starts going up a steep incline so when I see the neighbor I'll see if I can get up the hill and take some pictures.
right now they take more than one screen , so you have to scroll to view them
If you hold the shift key down and then click on them, they should open in a new window (if you don't have pop-ups blocked). In a new window, the pic automatically resizes.
jt8
"Take your life in your own hands, and what happens? A terrible thing: no one to blame." -- Erica Mann Jong
Included here is a picture of the steel joists over the Massaranduba beam. I cantilevered the joists past the beam a few inches so water running down the wall wouldn't collect on the beam. Cantilevers for light gauge steel can span ft. but you have to put blocking in every other joist bay. I'm only cantilevering a few inches and considered leaving out the blocking (very time consuming to install) but this is my first structural steel framing and I don't have my framing intuition like I do with wood. Steel feels very strong but it has to be installed correctly or it can be crushed under a load.
I still haven't been able to get up the hill behind the house to get a birdseye view of the house but there is a photo of the back view. The water in front is a salt water lagoon and the water to the left is the open ocean. The roundish mountain in front is called Sugarloaf Mountain which is famous around here. And to think I started out in South Dakota. The two yellow buildings (condos) have been put up in the past few years and there are lots of them going up around here. My view will probably be filled up with these condos but I'm in construction so I can't complain. At least there is a height restriction of four stories and I think I'll always be able to see the ocean to the left.
The other two pictures show the sides of the house. The side with the block wall is right next to a couple who fight all the time and they hang there laundry out to dry right there which is real ugly so we decided to just close it up and put all the doors and windows where the views are.
hey... what's not to like
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my Mom started out in South Dakota too... and i wound up on an island on the Atlantic ... go figger Mike Smith Rhode Island : Design / Build / Repair / Restore
Keep the pics coming. I enjoy seeing how structures are built in other parts of the world. How's the weather there this time of year? I haven't been to Brazil since 1978. I know that it has changed ALOT since then. My mom is from Sao Paulo (Grandma still lives there) and we have friends in Rio. I remember as a kid going to the beach in Rio and then going to visit some friends in Petropolis. Neat places.
Good luck,John
J.R. Lazaro Builders, Inc.
Indianapolis, In.
It's been over 100 degees quite often here. I've been holding up pretty well in the heat but the Brazilian sun is a little tough on this Irishman. I put on sunblock all the time but if I miss a spot I'm burned in a few hours. In fact I built part of the floor (the steel shown here) out of sequence just to get some shade. But there are these cold fronts that bring storms and cool things off. Today it looks cloudy so far. On cloudy days I work late.
If you get a chance you should definitely get down here and visit your friends and family. If you make it up to Rio let me know and I'll show you the house. I'm about a half mile from the beach.
Looks great. I'm sure that hunting for materials is a hassle. When you get it finished you can host a Brazil-fest down there.
Material procurement has been one of the biggest challenges. I have this big book with pictures of tools and fasteners that I can just point to when I don't know the name or can't describe it. There aren't any big box construction stores in Rio so I have to go to many different places. It's toughening me up as a contractor though.
In fact, maybe I should host a Brazil-fest as soon as I get a bathroom in. Maybe I could get Stan Foster to do the stairs and Mike Smith to do the front entry. What part of construction do you like to do?
Hows the coffee in Brazil. Mucho java breaks bro?
-LMC
The coffee is good and strong. It really wakes you up. It's also cheap, about $1.50 for a kilo. Tools are really expensive though
what the hell brings you to Brazil, Women in thongs?
_LMC
I married a Brazilian. Now we are splitting time between countries.
Do they use alcohol for fuel in Brazil? I started a thread about biofuel. If you have any thoughts on the topic, you might throw them on there.
http://forums.taunton.com/tp-breaktime/messages?msg=70807.1jt8
"If you don't make mistakes, you aren't really trying." -- Coleman Hawking
They used to use alot of alcohol for fuel. They still use it but the use has diminished somewhat. I don't know why. I think it may have been that there were fewer stations offering this type of fuel. They have alot of natural gas/gasoline hybrid cars here.
tried to find your biofuel thread and taunton tells me it doesn't existperhaps it is in the tavern and I have to request permission?my daughter is off to Honduras this summer to do a demonstration project promoting biofuel - do I apply for tavern rights?
Looks like you found the thread to get permission to get into the tavern. Now you just need the Sysop to come back Monday and unlock the door.
jt8
"If you don't make mistakes, you aren't really trying." -- Coleman Hawking
hey john.. got it ! and thanks again.. go Seahawks !Mike Smith Rhode Island : Design / Build / Repair / Restore
I haven't posted any pictures for awhile. I had to go back up to the States to get some jobs set up for the summer and we had a baby-- usual stuff.
Now the building is starting to take shape. A guy walked by and asked -is that aluminum? There are a number of people collecting aluminum cans so this house must look like El Dorado. I haven't had anything stolen however. I must admit myself that whenever I saw steel framing that I thought it looked weak, like a thin gauge aluminum. But this stuff has a strong feel to it when it is put together.
I ran a bunch of strings and put it together stud by stud. I'm working alone so I can't stand walls up easily. On one of the shots of the headers you might notice that I stacked the headers on top of each other. I did that because here in Brazil they don't have pressurized water. They pump the water up to the attic into a 1000 liter reservoir and then let gravity distribute the water to the fixtures. The wider steel I could get was 8 inch so I put another 6 inch header underneath the are of the reservoir.
What are you doing in Brazil? Other than building.
ARe you going to live there? REtire there? ARe you or your wife from there?
Just curious. I have always want to visit Argentina (I know that is not Brazil) and perhaps even buy or build a small place there.
I'll never be able to retire.
My wife is from Brazil.I'm from behind the Cheader Curtain... I don't know what happened.
What is this crazy American doing?
That is probably what people are saying now that I have the roof framing done. Now everyone can see the steel framing from the street. This kind of construction is very rare in Rio. There is more stick built construction in the south of Brazil. Sao Paulo and the southern states produce most of the steel framing, OSB, and shingles.
Steel roof framing takes more time than wood framing.because screwing is more time consuming than nailing. But you don't have to cut any birds' mouths in steel framing. The rafter rests on the track and the load is transferred to the ceiling joist. You have to be very careful to inline frame in steel framing. The stud supporting the roof is under the ceik[ling joist rather than the rafter. If you used a nail gun made for steel framing it might be as fast as wood. The roof might be the only place where steel framing might not be that much slower than wood framing. I didn't have to crown anything however. And I framed this all alone at 50 yrs old because it was so light. Steel framing might exteng the carreers of some older framers, just like padded wood floors prolonged the playing time of old hoops players.
McCarty..
that is some nice looking work.. makes me wanna think about some steel framing myself
View ImageMike Smith Rhode Island : Design / Build / Repair / Restore
Very Nice work, and I too will re-think the use of steel in framing !
There is definitely a learning curve with this material. I remember when I framed my first house 25 yrs ago. I didn't have a lot of experience nailing but after a few months a cuold swing a hammer fairly well. The same thing happened with screwing. At first I was dropping screws all over the place and stripping screws but now I can handle the screwgun and I can tell by the sound if the screw was placed right.
Insulating walls is another area that would have to be evaluated from a cost standpoint. You can achieve a thermal break by putting some foam outside the studs, but to achieve the same R value as a wood framed wall you have to add more insulation. Since I was building in Brazil, I didn't read up that much on thermal issues in a colder environment.
But in a termite region steel is a legitamate player. When I attended this building seminar most of the people were from Texas, Louisiana, Alabama and Florida. They use it a lot in Hawii too.
But as I enter my Geritol years (thanks Jason) and I might want to frame with my Geritol buddies I can lift a 23 ft 8 inch joist with no trouble.
the thermal break would be a natural for our mooney wall... and if termites were an issue , the mooney can be PT
i got some ideas..
to this point, all our steel framing has been commercial interior partitionsMike Smith Rhode Island : Design / Build / Repair / Restore
Mike
I've actually gave this thought some serious consideration.
If I was to build a house for myself I'd consider using metal framing to do the whole thing, I like strait walls.
Whats the down side, other then time and as someone that doesnt do much/any framing I'm going to be slow no matter how I do it.
I've always wondered if we wouldnt see more metal framing in residential at some point, so far I havent seen any but I cant help but think its not that far away.
While doing some work for HFH the local builders association put a house up with metal frame, they pulled up with the walls all prebuilt and had the house dried in by mid afternoon. There were a few guys that just ran blocking for the day. It was a joy to trim out and hang cabinets in.
You say that you've done it in comercial, is it really that much more money wise?
Doug
doug..not much of a challenge.. there are lots of good manuals out there for the different framing techniques
and , since we mooney our exterior walls, that will make it easy on the interior.. the exterior, you just have to screw all the sheathing and provide blocking for trim
mostly, it's a question of new techniques and new thinking.
my plan is to put an addition on my office soon... i think that will be my steel framing school..
thanks to cheesehead.. Mike Smith Rhode Island : Design / Build / Repair / Restore
What's a mooney wall?
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Mooney wallMike Smith Rhode Island : Design / Build / Repair / Restore
Thanks for the photo. I've checked on your interesting Adverse Conditions from time to time although I don't have alot of computer time with a new baby and closing in this house. It's the War and Peace of Breaktime. Maybe I'll wait until the movie comes out.
i don't know.. you know how much gets left on the edit room floor.. lots of out takesMike Smith Rhode Island : Design / Build / Repair / Restore
What's a mooney wall?
Our running FAQ on the Mooney:
http://forums.taunton.com/tp-breaktime/messages?msg=65624.1
Mike, feel free to update that thread if you have any new details.
jt8
"The difference between greatness and mediocrity is often how an individual views a mistake..."-- Nelson Boswell
Edited 5/16/2006 10:18 am by JohnT8
Here are some photos of the post and beams I put up. The material is Massaranduba and has about the same density,weight and strength as Ipe. One of the pieces was about 20 ft and very heavy. I had to get 4 other guys to help me lift it up.
Two of my posts were not lined up perfectly. One was going in and the other going out. The one leaning in was easy to fix. I just wedged a eucalyptus branch between the concrete and the post and moved it out. The post leaning out was more difficult. I tried to bring it in by wedging in some wood and beating it over but it wouldn't move. I needed a comealong but how could I explain what a comealong was? I tried to explain what it was but couldn't get it across. I then printed a picture from Amazon showing a comealong and found it after going around to a few shops. The comealong was just the right tool for the job and it moved it perfectly.
In two of the photos you will see a monkey that hangs around the area. We are building in a big city but it is in a region close to the ocean and there is a state park up the hill from my house. Monkeys around here are like squirrels. They run over the telephone lines and up and down the trees.
The older gentleman is a retired merchant marine who helps me out once in awhile. This guy is tough. I was drilling some deep holes in concrete and when I switched drill bits I just let one fall to the ground because it was to hot to handle. This guy picks it up in his hand and holds it for me until I'm ready. I wish I could teach that.
Are the monkeys in your area light-fingered ? In some places they'll steal just about anything they can carry, especially anything shiny..
Phill Giles
The Unionville Woodwright
Unionville, Ontario
I haven't noticed much missing from my site, just a hoe. I figured it was the wee people.
Nice pics, good times.....
Reminds me of the 6 months I spent building in peru last year.... I had the same problems with materials... also they used the same building system--almost a sort of timber framing, except with steel reinforced concrete colemns in place of the timbers and brick or block used as wall fillers.
I had problems finding wood for building a deck, and in the end built it out of concrete and steel and finished with ceramic tile..
tools were mad expensive there too.....and everything was 220v.
Good luck! God bless!