There is alot of voo-doo in concrete acid stain… (IMHO) not alot on the web and people really don’t seem to want to share IF they have a home made formula….
mine started when i over charged the battery on my harley… the acid dripped down landing on the concrete… leave’n a really nice cola brown stain…
got me think’n and since their hasn’t been much acid stain in my normal salvage venues… and not one love’n to spend $50 a gallon on what is mostly water I started play’n with chemicals that i know next to zero about ….
took me awhile to figure out that the acid from that battery dripped down and over some chrome before it it the concrete… this was my starting point… was it that it dripped over metal or the chrome?
after alot of searches on the web and play’n with acid…. I was sure it was the chrome that affected the acid and then stained the concrete…
so now with some garden and common lab chemicals ..metalic salts… i have come up with a formula to make a pretty nice cola color up to an almost black …. i can get tans if i cut it with water… from what i read (material data safety sheets) the stuff i use is not the safest stuff in the world… but then what is?
I’d like to share some of what i’ve learned but… since this stuff is pretty nasty and toxic I’m not sure that i should… or if there is much interest… I’ve only small batched it and this next week or so think i’ll make up what i’ll need 10 gal or so in a med cola and maybe 2gal of a dark…. for accents…
the dry chemicals involved cost less than $1 per gallon and the liquids might be 50cents…. and i’m pretty sure at this point my stuff is pretty close to what you buy from the supply house…
p
Replies
Shhh.......
Joe H
http://www.cathy-moore.com/house/stain.html
http://members.socket.net/~llile/ConcreteStain/Concrete_Stain.html
Nice links Joe.
The colors are from the salts, the acid is less than 5% of the liquid, its a mild acid to weaken the concrete so it will soak.
That 5% makes for some expensive shipping.
I'd like a formula for the greens too.
Joe H
that 5% cost me a $100 shippingthere was one company that sold the stain without the acid so it could go postal and you just added some swimming pool cleaner once you got it
Edited 9/2/2008 9:46 pm by brownbagg
Got me too, gave Kimko a CC number over the phone. They never told me there was a hazardous shipment charge & I hadn't asked.
Joe H
RE: Acid Stain
Dear Sir
please can you send me the name of the company that sells the stain without the acid. We are in Africa and the shipping for Hazmart is making the business not worthy for us. My email is [email protected]. Thanks
Sure, go ahead and share the secret formula.
There are safety precautions/practices to follow when working with caustics.
Read and have the Material Safety Data Sheets on hand.
Wear protective equipment, safety goggles, rubber gloves, apron. You may also need an acid vapor respirator, depending on the concentration. And don't work in Crocs.
Always add the acid to the water, slowly.
Provide adequate ventilation.
Have sodium bicarbonate on hand to neutralize the acid.
Don't store your 'solutions' next to the pool chemicals...
Neutralize and dispose of properly.
Words to the wise...use the iron sulfate method outlined in post #2. Forget the sulfuric acid method as it's very dangerous to use, for you the operator and those working with you, if your anything but very familiar with mixing/using acids in any strength. Sulfuric acid(lead/acid battery type) is a strong acid and will cause severe skin burns if you should get it on yourself. It's effect on any clothing is also quite an "eye opener" which will be revealed once the clothes are first washed.
That is probably why commercial acid stains are hydrochloric acid based
I would only say that to me, the most problematic part of your formula is the use of metallic salts, especially chrome. I think those are pretty bad for the environment if they aren't disposed of properly. Tanners and platers use chrome salts, IIRC, and they are bad things just to just throw out into the back forty (as a guy in Bay City got caught doing).
I grew up around metals plating shops that had concrete floors.
acid/chrome mix gave you the color.
In the shop we always had yellow/brown stains around the chromate solutions,
Blue/green stains around the copper tanks
Rust/brown stains around any of the steel tanks that were lined with acid impervious materials. The acid would drip down the outside of the tank and interact with the steel.
Ever try using a commercial moss/algae remover made for lawns?
Always leaves a permanent stain on concrete if left sitting on it for awhile.
35% ferrous sulfate (MossOut)
So what's the skinny brother?
I've stained floors and have used nothing but Kimiko but would be interested in your methods. Way cheaper. Sounds like you have it down, I always wondered how they do it but never researched it. Funny how they all look like water but then produce different colors! The key would be consistency.
edited to add my condolences to your Harley's chrome! But then again you can buy her more with the money you save from making your own stain.
“Some people wonder all their lives if they've made a difference. The Marines don't have that problem.”
Reagan....
Failure is the condiment that gives success its flavor.
-Truman Capote
Edited 9/3/2008 3:25 am ET by jarhead2
I've only mixed small batches to date... so i'll post the "formula" when i mix up the gallons... right now to make a cup full (about 10oz) I'm measure'n in screw off coke caps... so the worries of "toxic run off" ect... are pretty nil...t just doesn't take much of the compounds to make a working stain... and very little acid maybe 5%... mostly water as a carrier.... (that 10oz cup will stain alot... ) i get about 500sf per gallon...
most of the green & blue plant foods stain concrete well... and have many of the same chemicals as commerical concrete stain.... very few purchased stains have a list of whats in them on the package... but a few do... which is where i should have started...
ps... we all know harley chrome sucks... i hate that ####... i've replaced some of the same chrome 3-4 times... the acid might help it...
p
Thanks!
As far as the chrome, what about SS?
“Some people wonder all their lives if they've made a difference. The Marines don't have that problem.” Reagan....
Failure is the condiment that gives success its flavor. -Truman Capote
Just a word of caution. Metallic salts are water soluable, and they can get into your skin and do a lot of damage to your body. In some cases, people develop severe allergic reactions to metallic salts. Anaphalatic (sp?) shock is common when exposed to some metallic salts (platinum for instance).
I used to work at a precious metals refinery. They tested us weekly for the allergy. A few guys were hospitalized because they suddenly had an issue. If it were me, I'd stick to safer stuff and cover myself in Tyvec whenever I was around the stuff.
Chris
This actually brings up a good point. If using a metal-based salt for this DIY activity and wishing to minimize the health issues post-work, how does one protect themselves, and guests, after the installation? Even when sealing the stain, the common wear will ultimately expose the underlying stain.
Well, like the original poster said, get all of your MSDS and other information straight before you obtain any chemicals or pour anything on a floor.
Definitely wear protective gear during the process and depending on the concentration/molality of the acids in the stains, use fiberglass or plastic tools to work the solution.
Sealing the concrete should do a more than adequate job of making sure any chemicals stay in the concrete and don't wear off on the surface. I don't believe anyone has ever been sued over something like a low concentration acidic stain leaching through a concrete layer into the ground below. And most of the heavy metals should be trapped in the concrete. But there's a first time for everything.
Be sure to dispose of the materials and any of your PPE that have been exposed afterwards safely. And definitely use a respirator during the work. The fumes some of these acids can off-gas are not good to breathe in.
With all of that, I'd probably just go with a store bought mix that didn't have a lot of these concerns. Or some harmless acid stain, like the coffee mix that was discussed in a FHB article a while back.
Chris
Anything new?
Or the folks from Kimko sent a hit team out?
Joe H
still play'n with it... i did a 1200sf floor yesterday... you really don't know til you scrub/buff off the excess and seal it...... the floors i'm doing are a mix of very old and new ie: where i cut & ripped it up for new plumbing... and the at least 50yo stuff next to it... i kicked up the acid for the older and played with blending it... and tried to make the non traffic areas darker so to give it a worn & traveled look... I'll clean it up today and see what i got... so far... i can't tell the difference between purchased and made stains... but i don't want to pat myself on the back til i get some finished... i have had it just sit on top and look great til i cleaned it up... with very little staining take'n place...
p
Good luck, I hate the wait.
Joe H
I walked into an office recently where the concrete floors had been stainedIt looked really good
Wondering how this came out, any shots of this you could add to the Loft Pictures threads?
Joe H
formular for acid stain
I am very interested in your formular. Can you share with me some of your trying?
regards,
Tsohn