I installed thes three columns in Chicago last week. We build about a dozen columns a year. Most, like these three, are split units allowing them to be installed around an existing support column.
Basic size, 10 inch dia. X 120 inches tall.
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Wow! Those are wonderful. Great work!
William
Sweet columns man.
My two favorite woods are cherry and Birds eye.
If you don't mind how much to fabricate those columns, material and labor. Minus the installation.
What the problem is?
Thanks guys, price depends on quantity since it's pretty much based on economy of scale. This order was for three units about $1400 each, pre-finished and ready to go, plus delivery and install. We sometimes, depending on distance ship them out with a DVD to aid in installation.
I was kind of thinkin a pair of those, 8" in diameter and 6' tall would look killer in my shack.
What the problem is?
Beautiful!
<We build about a dozen columns a year. >
And that makes your nut? Good deal!
Forrest
Each column is divided into two shafts. The upper shaft is 24 inches tall the lower shaft is 84 inches tall and features 16 flutes milled into the face. In addition the the base comprises of 3 sections of cove & bead rings, the center trim is 3 cove & bead birdseye maple rings capped off with a capital containing 5 cove,bead and dental molding rings. All parts were cut, milled and assembled in sequential order producing a cool matching grain pattern around the column.
Photo of base. Note the dowels they assist in lining up all the separate rings as well as the final alignment of the base to the shaft.
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Photo below shows the underside of the base, the four bolts are set in captured barrel nuts and act as final levelers allowing me to jackscrew the column up tight to the ceiling. The bolts and corresponding gap is covered by a final curved base trim . Incidentally the four 18 ga. pins attaching the base trim are the only visible fasteners on the entire column.
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Photo of upper shaft installed around the support post.
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Sorry I don't have more install photos I didn't think the client would be to happy if I stood around and shot photos while on his dime.
Photo of upper shaft with capital installed held in place against the ceiling by two "Third Hands" Incidentally Big Cal if your lurking these are the two "Thirds Hands" I extracted from the "Quittin Time" auction last year. One Great tool to have.
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The following photos show the main shaft installed beneith the center trim ring. All joints are keyed together. The split shafts are glued and band clamped.
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In the next week or so I'll go into more detail of how the parts were made.
Photo below shows the rough milled main shaft in the shop. Second photo shows the upper shaft with capital sitting on floor, lower shaft is on a bench in the background.
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Yo Armin, back from a campout on Kelley's Island.
The columns are sweet.
And so is your wife, no?
Every time I use those Thirdhands I thank the guy that made 'em.
A great place for Information, Comraderie, and a sucker punch.
Remodeling Contractor just outside the Glass City.
Quittin' Time
Thanks for the complaments Cal.
How about figuring a way to put this together for us over at QT?
It's been on my list, eventually I'll take you up on it.
back from a campout on Kelley's Island
Where is Kelleys Island?
Closer to Ohio than Pelee - Lake Erie.
The warm lake.A great place for Information, Comraderie, and a sucker punch.
Remodeling Contractor just outside the Glass City.
Quittin' Time
Armin, man you know how to stay separate from the pack...thanks for the hints on how to keep up, though<G>I'm curious about your final on site column glue up...how do you hide/cleanup the glue line?Thanks again for teaching an old dog some new tricks!PS. love your shop decor "I am the master of low expectations." Georgie Boy, aboard Air Force One, June 4, 2003
I'm curious about your final on site column glue up...how do you hide/cleanup the glue line?
The columns are finished with 3 coat Kem-Var catalyzed conversion varnish. Glue squeeze out does not stick to the finish. The band clamps are removed after 20 minutes then any glue that did manage to squeeze out can be popped off with a fingernail. The trick is to put on the right amount, this is not a load bearing joint so no need to go crazy with the glue bottle. The joints are tight, and if you managed to get a good grain match you really have to look to find a seam. This is where ripping the staves using a powerfeeder on the tablesaw really makes a difference in the final product. The largest column we ever produced was 16 ft tall and 30 inches in dia. The joints were true the full length. I'll do a photo essay on stave construction the next time I run one.
The profiled rings are now ready to be stacked and glued together. Some profiles will be pared up in as many sets as convenient keeping in mind that they will have to be split in half during final jobsite assembly. Attention to detail is important since if you bury a critical removable key you will never get the unit apart at the jobsite.
The photo below shows the smaller trim ring spring clamped to the large cove. Note the two dovetail keys at the 4 o'clock position. The Hoffmann keys come in a multitude of lengths and can also be trimmed to any length needed. Wider joint can be spliced with as many keys as necessary to create a strong joint. Originally I purchased this machine to pre install complex widow & door trim. The entire frame including rosettes can be pre assembled in minutes and hung on the wall with perfectly tight joints that require no filling. For anyone who installs pre-finished trim this is the way to go.
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Photo below shows the internal view of the capital comprising of 5 profile rings. The ring sets are screwed together after assembly around the structural 4x6 post. The client just informed me the carpenters forgot their level and installed the 4x6 at least 1/2 inch out of plumb. Great! I'm holding a cross section of the post to see how much wiggle room I have inside the column. View Image
I'll be off till the weekend installing another project will continue this thread when I return.
Thanks again one and all.
The Capital consists of 5 separate rings. The second from the bottom is a birdseye maple dental molding consisting of a 1-1/4 thick plywood core and a segmented "skin" of birdseye fitted and glued around the rim.
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The finished diameter was sanded round on the edge sander. The slots were vertical milled on a 3 axis Stanfield router. This is one sweet machine that acts like a hand operated CNC router. To my knowledge this machine is no longer made. I originally saw the tool at a trade show, it was well made, almost to the point of being over built. The castings and machining were impeccable. I have a feeling the company went defunct because the price put it out of the range of the hobby market and most bigger shops went to full blown CNC routers. Photo below shows two rings stacked to speed up the operation. I could have stacked all three however I opted to run the first on by itself just in case I botched it.
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The fluting of the columns was produced using a box guide fixture and a router slide.
Photo below shows the column mounted on a cradle clamped to a work cart. Note the two glue blocks on the inside of the column. This is where the column splits in half, the blocks hold everything tight during maching and are knocked out for the jobsite installation. The black tape is a cushion to minimize scratching while the column is indexed (rotated) in the fixture.
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Photo below shows the column captured in the box fixture. The fixture is nothing more than two sides and a top with a slot big enough to clear the router bit. The funny looking stop sign is a wrench which fits into the column and allows me to turn the column and index the next flute. The flutes line up an every joint as well as two between the joints for a total of 24 flutes per column. Layout lines drawn on the column edge determine the final location.
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Photo below shows router in the fixture. I prefer to use a "D" handle router since it has better control. The plastic router base slides between the guide rails. I take light fast cuts to avoid burning the cherry. To avoid having to reset the cutter depth for each pass I set the cutter so the final pass is with the router base flat on the fixture. For the first and second pass the router base rides up on a wedge (lower right side of photo) this is simple, fast and works very well. Dust collection is hooked up to a shop vac and integrated into the base. View Image
In addition I also use the central dust collection to draw air around the column in an attempt to further reduce the airborne dust. Routers are about the worst tool there is for dust control.
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Edited 9/26/2006 12:27 am ET by riverman
Cool!
I especially like how the pieces of black tape in #BB08 are all exactly the same length, perfectly splayed, and cut squarely on the ends.
Forrest - gettin' inspired
I especially like how the pieces of black tape in #BB08 are all exactly the same length, perfectly splayed, and cut squarely on the ends.
That's funny.
You sayin, in a nice way, I'm one of those crazy guys with a compulsive disorder?
Incidentally the four 18 ga. pins attaching the base trim are the only visible fasteners on the entire column.
Have you tried a 23 ga. pin nailer? I think a headless pin would be great for a column of that quality, provided it has the holding strength you require.
Jon Blakemore RappahannockINC.com Fredericksburg, VA
I have been meaning to try a 23 ga pinner. I think strength would not be an issue since there is no spring back in the molding, you could pretty much hold it in place with a piece of tape.
If that's the case then you really should spring for one. The hole is not imperceptible, but next to a headed 18 ga. pin is a big improvement.
Jon Blakemore RappahannockINC.com Fredericksburg, VA
Jon, I take it you have a 23 ga pinner. What brand and model would you recommend?
I have a Grex which is currently in the shop for repair after about 250 nails. I have heard many say that the Grex is good, maybe I just have a lemon.I've also heard good things about the Cadex & Omer, but have never used either.
Jon Blakemore RappahannockINC.com Fredericksburg, VA
This is the puppy to get. Just came out. Great size range + anti dry fire feature.http://www.nailgundepot.com/shop/catalog/Grex_P645_23_Gauge_Headless_Pinner_1_2_to_13_4-p-26628.html
you said base and shaft
"I hate quotations. Tell me what you know" Ralph Waldo Emerson
OK I give what's the question?
The columns were pretty straight forward. Eight staves per column milled on a Williams & Hussy molder, joints splined, glued and band clamped together the trim sections are detailed as follows:
I started out with a full scale drawing, showing profiles and sizes of rough blanks.
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Once I have the sizes I cut the blanks for each ring out of full length boards color codeing the sections and numbering the joints to get as close a grain match as possible. The photo below shows all left end cuts completed.
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I prefer to make my angle cuts with a preset sliding table on the table saw. This method produces a cleaner, more consistent cuts than a chop saw. The jig is simple to make and can be saved for future projects. Set up time is determined by whatever time it takes to find it. In my stash I have fixtures for 5 through 12 sided cuts.
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Once the final cuts are completed I join them with a dovetail key using a Hoffmann Dovetail Key machine. http://www.hoffmann-usa.com/htm/machines/intro_dovetail.htm This is the only machine I ever purshase on impulse and it turned out to be well worth the money. Fast easy, strong knock down joints in a matter of seconds.
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Detail of key. All joints are glued except for the half joint which needs to be removeable for the final jobsite installation.View Image
Photo of key machine with custom jig for hex joints.
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Thanks one and all for the compliments, will follow up with more on construction method as time permits.
Thank you! I will never make one, but I'm fascinated, & impressed. This is one of the things that makes BT so great!
Arman
Those are killer columns!
As usual, nice work. And thanks for taking the time to illustrate your technique, How else can I steal ideas!
Doug
Steal away after 39 years of doing this full time I'm happy to pass something on to you guys besides gas.
"The columns were pretty straight forward. Eight staves per column milled on a Williams & Hussy molder, joints splined, glued and band clamped together"Excuse me if this question is redundant. Does this mean that the column is done without a lathe, or is the W&H just used to reduce the turning needed?
Thanks. And beautiful columns by the way.
Does this mean that the column is done without a lathe, or is the W&H just used to reduce the turning needed?
Sorry I don't have any photos of the actual shaft construction as the first set of photos were accidently deleted. The best I can do for now is show a few of the cutoff test pieces and explain the process.
I never use a lathe for the shafts simply because it would be to slow not to mention pretty difficult to obtain a perfectly straight shaft on something this size and weight. I use a Williams & Hussy molder with a set of custom 5 inch radius knives (10 inch diameter column) to mill 8 staves. It takes a bit of precision and a few test cuts to get it right. The end result will yield a near perfect round and straight shaft, requiring minor sanding to finish it off.
Photo below shows the profile of the staves, as well as a test section of the glued up shaft. After the top profile is milled the angle cuts are made on the table saw using a power feeder to hold the stock tight to the table avoiding burn marks.
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Arman
Very clever!
It's always nice to see a idea born out of necessity.
I used to have a guy do all my turnings for me and he always said "strait columns/baluster are the most difficult to do", to much room for minor errors. Your eye don't pick up to much if a vase style turning isn't exactly like the next one but if a strait column is off just ever so slightly, its obvious.
Doug
Edited 9/18/2006 10:26 pm ET by DougU
Hooray for "story" posts!
Really enjoyed your sequence of photos - super nice work.
Forrest - dreaming of the Hoffman
Once all the trim rings have been assembled, I run them through the wide belt sander to clean up the surface and take down to finish thickness.
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The octagonal blanks are now ready for profiling. I used to do this operation with a router or turn the sections on a lathe. I find rotary profiling on the shaper to be much more accurate and far less work. It's a borrowed concept from metal machining where rotary tables are used in milling operations.
Photo below shows the rotary table with a trim ring installed. The rotary table consists of two sections of 3/4 plywood The lower sub- base is bolted to the shaper table. The the top half is keyed to the base similar to a miter slot on the table saw. This allows the work to be indexed toward the cutter for depth of cut while the machine is running. Note the pencil centerline on the plywood base and the 5/16 hole about 6 inches up from the end. The rotary section of the fixture comprises of a 3/8 thick plywood round base. The octagonal rings are held to the base with cleats, the rings are press fit onto the cleats, no other fastening is required. The whole assembly rotates on the 5/16 steel pin which is inserted into the hole located on the pencil centerline.
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The blank is rough sawn on the bandsaw to remove excess waste and rotates freely on the pivot point without touching the cutter. I use a three wheel powerfeeder with the center wheel removed so only one wheel rides on the outer edge of the work. The powerfeeder rotates the work as the plywood top (piece with center line drawn on) is pushed manually into the cutter a 1/16 inch at a time taking light cuts to avoid blow outs. The powerfeeder holds the work securely and it's very easy to control the depth of cut manually as the rotary table completes each pass. The whole operation take a matter of a few minutes and produces a fine finish requiring a minimum of sanding.
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Edited 9/18/2006 10:57 pm ET by riverman
Thanks for the tutorial. Anyone else notice that even his roller stands are a piece of art.Tom
Douglasville, GA
Do you really have a granite table top for doing glue-ups, etc? That must be one solid, flat and heavy surface to work on.
PJ
Do you really have a granite table top for doing glue-ups, etc?
No it's a just piece of Formica, easy to clean the glue off between assemblies.
no question...just sophomoric humour with no discernible punch-line.
sorry.
"I hate quotations. Tell me what you know" Ralph Waldo Emerson
Great work Riverman; those are really cool. A friend of mine here in MN has been building these also and I'm always impressed.
Mike
Armin: AS ususal....top notch work. Its a pleasure watching your posts.
Stan
Absolutely beautiful! You could be a one-man Finishing Touches section in FHB. Have they ever included any of your work in the mag? I don't recall..."War is God's way of teaching Americans geography." Ambrose Bierce
Have they ever included any of your work in the mag? I don't recall...
Other than a few tips in the earlier issues I don't believe I submitted anything. I was hoping they would create a heading in the forums to include some how to do stuff. Something that would be more readily available to readers than digging through the archives.
I was hoping they would create a heading in the forums to include some how to do stuff. Something that would be more readily available to readers than digging through the archives.
How about figuring a way to put this together for us over at QT? We've evidently moved the forum to a less costly-way more space server-Luka can fill you in-it's greek to me. Anyway, we have a How To section this type of work would fit in nicely. All it would take is a question here seen by one of us and a link would be provided to the thread. We've talked about this in the past, how bout it?A great place for Information, Comraderie, and a sucker punch.
Remodeling Contractor just outside the Glass City.
Quittin' Time
You just keep giving us beautiful work to marvel at. Thank You for posting.
The "how to" pics are just as amazing.
The power feeder, in addition to producing a great finish, adds a huge margin of safety. As the profile gets deeper the cutter becomes larger and the whole operation looks and sounds like your attempting to mill wood using Stan's Gyrocopter prop. Photo below shows the large cove ring being milled using a 2 knife Lock Edge shaper cutter assembly. My shaper has a tilting spindle so I can mill the cove with the spindle set at 45 degrees. This allows me to use a smaller cutter (less knife protruding beyond the head). Even at that it makes you realize the importance of the powerfeeder. The tilting spindle has another advantage as now you can set the wood table to it's final depth of cut and slowly index the cutter into the work by tilting the spindle. Once the tilt gage reads 45 degrees you are done and its off to the next piece. This generates tons of chips fast so I added a side collection cone.
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Note the plywood cover on the top of the trim ring. The debth of cut is almost 2 inches deep so I felt the cover would help keep an even down pressure and prevent wheel slipage.
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Note the center wheel has been removed from the powerfeeder. Also you can see how the tilting spindle reduces the size of the cutter. At 90 degrees the cutter wings would be at least three times as large.
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Armin, thanks again for showing beautiful work, and laying out the step by step.
I too wish there was a permanent place for how-to threads- I've got at least 3 of yours bookmarked now.zak
"so it goes"
Great work Riverman. Thanks for the great post.live, work, build, ...better with wood
The octagonal ring blanks were rough cut about 1/8 inch on the bandsaw. Once the rings have been milled on the shaper the outer face edges of the cove profile need to be trued to size and cleaned up on the edge sander. This also removes any minor tearouts caused by the shaper cutter. The same round base plate with the cleats and 5/16 in center pin that was used on the shaper is used on a pivoting sub-table mounted to the edge sander. Since this is a hand operation I added a handle to the rotating base. The operation is simple, rotate the handle in a counterclockwise (against the belt rotation) with slight inward pressure allowing the belt to remove the wood without loading and burning.
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The C-clamp in the photo above holds a pre-set stopblock, limiting the distance the table can travel and setting the finial diameter of the ring.
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The final profile sanding is done on outboard spindle of the lathe. The same round sub-base with the internal cleats that was used on the shaper is now mounted on the outboard face plate of the lathe. The ring assembly is held to the sub-base by a cover plate just large enough to hold the work and not interfere with the sanding. Since the work is round and true the lathe makes quick work of the final sanding. 220 grit and the finish is like glass. This operation can generate some serious heat so light pressure should be used, if your fingers start to smoke it's time to back off. Also keep the neckties and ponytails in the dresser drawer.
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Thanks for the further pix.
I believe threads like this are "magazine like" in that they can be used to show the development of an activity, not just the final result.
I think FH should really encourage stuff like this; BT has become a true "E-zine" for craftsman - essentially all the jobs discussed in here are in response to an actual installation need, by the actual craftsmen who do the work.
This is the useful stuff.
Forrest - now I need to learn to use Grandad's old Rockwell shaper, and stop fudging with a SpeedMatic
Also wanna' cross-post a comment from BossHog here, stolen from another thread:
<I'd rather have someone tell me what worked for them than just telling me what THEY think I should do. > (in 78720.71)
That's what I was trying to say in my previous post!
Forrest
Thank you for answering my question. I'll mentally file that method away for the day I need to do one with my W&H. Cheaper than buying a big lathe too!;-)
Wow. I have rarely seen anyone with the skills you have. Hopefully you're teaching this to a few young whippersnappers along the way.
Hopefully you're teaching this to a few young whippersnappers along the way.
It's been my intent however so far no one has shown any serious interest. Maybe one of my grandsons will be of the mindset to carry on.
At this point all that's left is final finish sanding of the columns and it's off to the finishing room.
Weather permitting I sand outdoors, better lighting and eliminates the dust issue.
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My sander of choice for scratch free work on large pieces is a Bosch 6 inch random orbit. I like the balance as well as the two handed control especially on curved faces. To insure I don't miss any spots I lightly weave a few lines across the surface with a soft pencil, then proceed to sand until all the lines are gone. The molder does a good job of milling so, in most cases, I can start with 150 grit then switch over to 180 for a final quick pass. At this time I'll break all sharp corners and edges then finish up with a few strokes of long grain hand sanding with 180.
Once in the finishing room the long columns are split and coated on the inside to even out jobsite moisture absorption. Short columns can be coated without dismantling, usually I'll coat the insides before I install the glue blocks prior to milling however in this case I missed the opportunity and had to backtrack.
For this project I used Sherwin Williams Kem-Var catalyzed Conversion Varnish
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To achieve good finish a clean surface is a must. Blowing the dust out of the wood pores is most important. Early on I used tack rags but over time I realized air pressure combined with a rag worked even better at much less cost. Around here things kind of evolve and I now use an old cotton sock with a hole cut out for the thumb, sort of like a dust mitten. The column is outfitted with endcaps and a 2x4 acts as an axle allowing me to rotate the shaft 90 degrees at a time as I spray the surface.
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Applying the final finish is a very rewarding aspect of the job. The first coat is met with some apprehension as any sanding flaws are ready to jump out and bite you in the nose. At this point its not to difficult to re-sand a spot or two so I check out the first coat very closely and make a note of any oversights that need attention. Over the years I developed a few work saving supports. The rotating platform base is a heavy duty lazy susan mounted on a plywood disk. The 5 gal. bucket adds a bit of height. Photo below shows the birdseye center ring getting the final coat. I try to position myself so the light highlights the wet film as it's applied. One hand rotates the work while the other operates the gun producing a continuous wet film. Note the ring is elevated on 3 screws to allow me to coat the underside without flipping the work over.View Image
A final photo of the three columns finish sprayed. Since I work alone it's important to plan out where to set the freshly sprayed sections without slowing up the work flow. In this case the 2x4 axles are long enough to allowed me to move the column, one end at a time, onto a set of curing horses.
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In the lower left of the photo you can see the lazy susan rotater while the mid right side shows a horse with a "T" or "Moose head" rotating rack. This is ideal for finishing short work allowing one to pick up the material from the underside and place on a rack.
By the way, for all you non cowboy types out there, these horses are called Paints.
Thanks one an all for your interest and comments. I hope it was of help.
Edited 9/26/2006 6:55 pm ET by riverman
Edited 9/26/2006 6:57 pm ET by riverman
Armin, BT should institutionalize you...oh, wait...I mean they should make an institution out this thread...thanks for a bunch of good tricks<G> "I am the master of low expectations." Georgie Boy, aboard Air Force One, June 4, 2003
Armin
Thanks for the tutorial, very informative.
Doug
Armin: You are just in a class all by yourself. Amazing stuff.
Thanks for sharing....
Stan