Chicago area basement sewer questions
The recent heavy rains in our area have caused our basement to flood. We have had our bungalow for over 6 years and have never had any problems in this regard. Our issues are these.
We have no problem with human waste sewage. Our problem is with water from the kitchen and water that just enters the basement from somewhere. This water is not dirty, but just to be clear, I have shut off our water main and this did not stop the flow of this water so we do not have a broken water line. So, looking at the attached diagram:
In the basement proper we have:
The common sewer line coming from the bathrooms (Clean-out on bathroom(s) line photo);
the two floor drains (Double basement drains photo);
and the sump pump (Basement sump pump photo).
External to the basement we have:
The basement entryway drain (Basement entryway drain photo);
the roof gutter pipe (Roof gutter photo);
the catch basin and ( no photo );
the sump pump discharge pipe (Basement sump pump discharge photo);
When the water enters the basement I am not absolutely positive which basement drain it enters from. I do know that water does enter the basement from the basement entryway drain. I also know that when the sump pump runs, it pulls water from the smaller drain to the right in the photo because I can see the whirlpool as it drains.
Since we have no problem with sewage from the bathrooms I have to assume that that sewer line is clear to the street main. But just how the sewer lines attach between the kitchen drain lines, all of the drains and the catch basin is not at all clear to me. I have shown this as a dotted lines.
I have shown the rain gutter image because as I understand it there is a law which says that rain run-off must enter the sewer line and not just run off on the ground. Many other bungalows do have their rain gutters running into their yards so who knows the truth in this. I disconnected this line so that it would not enter the sewer and add to our problems.
Now, the catch basin is another thing that I do not understand. I know what a catch basin is, but why this is on the opposite side of all of these connections is not at all clear to me. I could not photograph it because it is under our den or so I am told as I have never seen it. To actually see it I would have to move a ton of things that are in that crawl space which I may have to do in the very near future if this has anything to do with our water problem.
The last image that I have not discussed is the one entitled ‘Basement what-is-this??’ Is this a sewer clean out? I hope so because I have not found any other clean out other than the one on the bathroom line. There has to be another clean out to clear this line and I have found none.
The good news for the moment anyhow is that it has stopped raining and we have not had a problem for the last 12 or so hours. We have had to use to portable sump pumps to clear the water and they have worked quite well. Plumbers have been in high demand and ours will be here this Friday. We have called sewer clean-out folks, not actual plumbers.
If anyone has any suggestions, I’m all ears. Thanks for any suggestions anyone may be able to provide.
Phillip
Replies
Sounds like a problem I have. Does your gutters enter into the sewer anywhere?
Yes, like I mentioned, this seems to be a 'law' that some obey and others do not. In my case, my rain gutter was tied directly into the sewer line when we bought the house. I disconnected it a few days ago to keep the rain from entering the sewer and making our problem worse. Seems to me that if a home owner does not clean out his gutter all this debris is going to collect and obstruct the sewer line. To be clear, I am not a sewer pro, but this makes no sense to me at all.My 2¢ anyway.
I take it your sanitary is not separated from the storm sewer?
A Great Place for Information, Comraderie, and a Sucker Punch.
Remodeling Contractor just outside the Glass City.
http://www.quittintime.com/
Funny you mention storm sewers. Several years ago I used to inspect gas, sanitary and storm sewers, so I know a bit about the construction/installation side of it anyway. Right after our problem began, my first question to my neighbor was just about that. He laughed and said, "Storm sewer? What storm sewer?" This part of the US of A hasn't a clue about storm sewers. Bottom line: Everything goes into the sanitary sewer. So, when we have heavy rains as we have been experiencing everything gets backed up due to the overflow.And while I'm on my soap box, these folks still haven't discovered turn arrows on traffic lights either. So if you want to turn you have to do it on the other guys green if the traffic is heavy as it usually is. What a concept!
Since all storm and sanitary enter the same line, you are going to continually be the recipient of funky water............but you say it isn't sewage, which leads you to think that ground water drains are backing up b/4 entering the funky side of things?
A stratigic backflow preventer might work on some of the "storm" takeaway lines that perhaps tie into some floor drains?
If it's coming up a floor drain, you could do what us rural dwellers did when the ditch water level got higher than the basement floor.........use a test plug to block it till the water problem drained away.
Our sump you had to kick the first day of the season to introduce it to work. Cleaning, adjusting to a diff level the float usually worked longer. New float switch helps too.
This happens when it doesn't do anything for a long time.A Great Place for Information, Comraderie, and a Sucker Punch.
Remodeling Contractor just outside the Glass City.
http://www.quittintime.com/
You mention a drain plug, I went as far a sand-bagging our drains to help a bit. I laid a closed-cell foam pad down first, but am not really sure if this helped much. Water did not come in through the walls which we are very grateful for.My neighbor keeps talking about our catch basin being full of debris, but like my drawing shows, this is on the 'south' end of all the sewer lines so I have no idea what this is about. When the sewer clean-out guy gets here Friday, perhaps he'll have some knowledge of this. Which is why I was concerned about having a clean out he could use."Our sump you had to kick the first day of the season to introduce it to work." I like that. Very funny.Thanks for the suggestions.
If we didn't plug our "washer" floor drain (what the old stone laundry tub dumped into) during the spring field drain/rain storms, more would come into the basement than the sump could pump out.
Simple math: 1-1/4'' pump pipe, 2'' floor drain.
Never a dull moment in that house.A Great Place for Information, Comraderie, and a Sucker Punch.
Remodeling Contractor just outside the Glass City.
http://www.quittintime.com/
The last image that I have not discussed is the one entitled 'Basement what-is-this??' Is this a sewer clean out? I hope so because I have not found any other clean out other than the one on the bathroom line. There has to be another clean out to clear this line and I have found none
Looks like it.
I am posting hoping someone from Chicago area will see and post, keeping it on the front page.
I am interested and I had 3" in my basement sunday, never before. No sump pump, because as I said in 18 yrs of living I have never had standing water. Turned out to be a broken sewer line and with the amount of rain this weekend, well the water didn't drain.
Sorry to hear about your water problem. As far as sump pumps go, ours only works if it's bumped into. Our basement door accidently hit it one day and it went on which I though was strange. When the basement filled with water, do you think it went on? Not once. I had to give it a good bump with my boot and off it went. In my case, having one is just a good as not unless you're around to kick it on. Great help.Did you have to rip your basement floor up to repair the sewer line? I hope not.
Did you have to rip your basement floor up to repair the sewer line? I hope not
FRont lawn, just before the street! (I hope) It is draining slowly, we put the camera down and found a broken pipe near a tree(GRRR)
If I read your post correctly, you're just letting the water drain out?? Man, I ran a bought two portable sump pumps and let them run day until all the water was out. Or most of it anyway.Someone suggested to me something about a camera. Wonder if our sewer guy has one of those? The wonders of modern technology.I really do not think we have a broken line, but I do believe that this system has not been maintained for many years. My neighbor, who knew the previous owners said, "the guy was so cheap he claimed that he could put a lump of coal between his cheeks and make a diamond." That's tight! And judging from all the money we have poured into this bungalow, I can well believe him: electrical, plumbing and so on.Take care. Hope you can save the tree, if that is what you want.
Once the water is out of your drains, they can run a camera through your pipes and axtually make a video. If there is nothing in the pipes, they can tell if you have a broken or tree roots in your pipe. I believe you can actually map with the camera as they ar able to run a locater as the camera goes through the pipes.
I had it done, but my pipes were to full of waste to see. Used the locator and a rooter device to make sure mine wasn't a root.
I have a bizarre series of pipes as I have no true sump pipe pit. The pipes actually, from the foundation, actually discharge in the front of the house, work there way into a pit that has a drain. That is where most of my water came in.
I am changing my pipes from under the basement floor to the ceiling and sealing up much of the pipe in the basement. it is going to be an interesting week with plumbing!
my best guess is it is your gutters going into the Catch basin that is causing this, There are a few pipes in your catch basin. One comes from the sink, to catch the grease or at one time it did and may have been removed. The other goes from the catch basin then under your house and it connected to the drains in the basement and then on to the sewer.
Take the gutters out of your catch basin, or what looks like a little flanged pipe coming out of the ground. this is not against the law but actually something that the city is trying to get people to do. This will have two affects, one your basement will stay mostly dry and two your yard may flood but that is better than outside. I lived in the city for 21 years and long ago disconnected the gutters from the catch basin as have many others on my old block. the back yard floods but it eliminated the water coming up through the drains.
Ok, what you're saying about the rain gutters makes perfect sense to me because as I mentioned: (1) the water coming into the basement was clean which to me means that it was coming from the rain gutters and (2) as my photo shows, I pulled the flex hose from the rain gutter leading into the sewer and this helped cut back the water flow a great deal.The part I don't understand at all is this catch basin business. I know how these work, but why in the world is this behind the house rather than to the side or at least somewhere in close proximity to the sewer lines? I appreciate the help especially since you are familiar with the area and their sewer/plumbing practices.Have a good evening.
Walk down the block behind the houses if you are lucky enough not to have fences. They are all behind the house. I think they are in the back because for a couple of reasons.
There is a connection from them to the main drain line going under your house, it is the same line that your drains go into the basement. Mine also had a connection from the kitchen sink, having it behind the house makes for easy plumbing when it was built. Mine was in about 1914 or so.
At one point in history the kitchen sink and the summer kitchen in the basement, (when it was hot upstairs and cool in the basement) were both connected, as well as some other stuff I think.
Also,the lots in Chicago are narrow. I was lucky enough to have a 50' wide lot with a driveway and no alley which is rare in the city. Given the narrow nature of the lots and the proximity of the houses to each other there is really nowhere else to put it. No room on either side.
Are you in Chicago proper and what area? If near Albany Park it is pretty bad there now and last fall. About the worst ever. Let me know the main intersections.
One of the other things the city has done to try to correct the issue is put restrictors on the street drains so the water from the street drains slower allowing the house drains to take priority. Seriously, the city wants the gutters out of the sewer/storm drain, as one other poster stated they have to deal with it as sewer water. When you do take the gutters make them long to get the water as far away from your house and your neighbors. My old neighbor took theirs out and pointed it my house and guess what, major seepage. I talked to them and they reconfigured and that corrected the problem. I was lucky I had good neighbors. Many in the city don't. So be a good neighbor and route them as far to the back as possible and away from anyone around you.
Again, take those gutters out of your catch basin and also take that cast iron cover off and have a look, it is likely full of leaves from your gutters. Just take some morter and cap the flanges where the gutters went in. Also, you can heat up a shovel blade and bend the end to make a scoop. Make sure the level in the catch basin is below the pipe inlets and you should be good. If it is really full you will need to clean it out or find someone to do so but be careful, they may tell you it needs repairs that it does not and try to scam you with FUD, Fear, Uncertainty and Doubt.
Of course I could be wrong on all of this and you have blockage in your line to the sewer. But even if you do, I will still be partially right and this will help the situation because that blockage would be in the front of the house well after the gutters go it. Reducing the water input would still help even if you do have partial blockage. Again, be careful in the city, lots of scamers and hacks. Hard to find good workers but they are there.
As a side note, I left the city last year after 21 years there. Great when you are young and I liked living there for a time but now have young kids and frankly the crazy yearly tuition payment for a mediocre school was more than my new mortage payment for a year where I live now. And the school is better. Plus, I am far less likely to go bezerk due to dealing with the crazy folks that also live there. And then there is the corruption and little Todd Stroger, and the crime, and the fact that I now have 5 acres for about half of what my house in the city is worth and ... Sorry, I guess I have now become "old" ;-) And I still own that house, When is the market going up again?
More good news from you. Great.I deliberately said Chicago because lots of folks wouldn't know that OP was just 18 EL minutes from downtown. Didn't mean to mislead, just trying to keep it simple.That said and done, I have been told that our catch basin is under our den (see diagram), but like I also said, I have not actually seen it because we have tons of stuff in that crawl space and I never noticed it when I began using that as a storage. When the sewer guy gets here on Friday I may have to move all of that stuff if he thinks he has to have access to it to do his job correctly. And BTW, his business came recommended so I think I'm good to go there. Business name is Swoosh and all they do is sewers, no plumbing.My rain gutter is now disconnected from the sewer drain pipe. I do know that that water was getting into the basement, so that taken care of. Making this a permanent repair is going to be a challenge, but that's another story for another time.Off topic, but we also own a home in NM. We have about 4 acres and a home that is about 4 times larger than this bungalow, so I understand what you mean. My wife is leaving to spend 3 weeks there this Friday. She is not a big fan of this area, but her work brings her here. Life. Point being, I fully and completely understand the difference between living in an area like OP and elsewhere with lots of elbow room like we do in NM. Also big difference in what you have to pay to live there as well.When are property values going up? That, my friend, is the question every homeowner would like to know. We were fearful that my wife was going to lose her job and we would have to take a real loss on this bungalow if we could even sell it, that is. That did not happen for which we thank the powers that be everyday. We will leave here in a few years and hopefully by then the economy and all other things that matter to hard working folks will be back in working order.I am sure your advice is solid so no problem in that regard. I really appreciate your sound advice and time.
I have nothing against the city, well, I take that back, the taxes stink and the schools are an issue but that set asside there are many great things like night life and dining out and all the cultural stuff. Many great things there and that is why I was there so long, plus lots of places to work.
Hope you get your flooding corrected. I am guessing the den you speak of was added on over the catch basin, usually they need to remain accesable.
Oddly enough, the Chicago area has been my second home for some reason. When I was short (Army) they transferred me from Germany to Ft. Sheridan, you may recall that Army base up by Highwood. After my release, I stayed for about 4 years so I got to know the area before finally returning to NM. Then my wife gets transferred back about six years ago which was OK by me because this part of the country has four real seasons, something Southern NM does not. I am actually from Santa Fe and that area of Northern NM does have four seasons. I really enjoy the fall colors and the snow.As far as big city living is concerned, I agree with you wholeheartedly. Lots of things to do, the great restaurants, the museums and so on. OP, to me, epitomizes what small town America used to be. We can walk to town from our bungalow, go to the movies, shop and enjoy the things that give most American's a nice warm fuzzy feeling. It is not like this anymore in most parts of this country. Not to my knowledge anyway. But, the flip side to this are the outrageous taxes which you are so right about. The streets have potholes that you could kill yourself in. For a fact, NM has better 'unimproved' (AKA dirt roads) than most of the paved roads in this area. Completely mismanaged government, irresponsible spending, but you know all of this already. I find it very amusing that we are preached at from every pulpit on the land about the evils of not living within our means, yet our own government is rife with just the opposite philosophy, which we as taxpayers have to pay for. I will stop at that.Back to the subject at hand: You are correct when you surmise that the den was built after the house was constructed. My neighbor went nuts when he could not find it after he swore that every house had a catch basin. He finally called the guy who owned the house previous to us and he told him where it was. He did not add on the den. It was already in place when he purchased the house. So, who knows what the thought process was back when that happened, if they thought at all, that is.Our basement is now dry. Hopefully the sewer guy will help the situation tomorrow.Again, I appreciate your help in all of this.
One last thing, I clicked on your profile and it turns out you are not really in Chicago. Seems you are in Oak Park. One if my good friends lives in Oak Park and she thinks she lives in Chicago as well. After about 15 years of the argument she had finally given in and realizes that she does not live in Chicago. Sorry, it is not Chicago, so I take back what I say about the gutters and laws, I have no idea what Oak Park thinks about it, but I am pretty sure, most of the same issues apply and the advice is farily solid.
Greetings from Little India (Devon and California). As other have mentioned, you want to ensure that your gutters are not feeding into the sewer, else heavy rainfall can overload the sewer feed and back up into your basement.
You may find them elsewhere, but Clark Devon hardware has retrofit check valves for basement drains that will allow water in the basement to drain, but prevent backups from the sewer. Less than $20.00 each. Well worth the money and very easy to install.
Good luck.
I am trying to find out for certain just what the law is about these rain gutters dumping into the sewer. And, I am sure you are correct about the gutters overwhelming the sewer lines. After I hear back from my neighbor (he and his wife have lived here for over 30 years), then I will get the facts because he keeps up with all these things.Having said that, many neighbors do not have their gutters tied into their sewers as mine is, so I hope this is the rule. However, if this turns out to be the case, I am going to have to do some work to change the gutter slopes so that they will dump on the other side of my house. More about that later.I am not sure where Little India is, but I think its a ways from OP.I appreciate your comments and suggestions. The Swoosh sewer guy will be here tomorrow morning and I will mention this to him.Take care and thanks again.
"just what the law is about these rain gutters dumping into the sewer"
In Chicago proper, I believe it is now against the law, but thousands of houses still have the old setup.
"Little India is, but I think its a ways from OP."
Two miles south of Evanston, 2 miles west of the lake. Just a wee drive from OP.
Good to hear from you.The sewer guy came as promised this morning. Nice to find he was a hard working no-nonsense local guy. Straight to work he went. And, he asked the question I feared he would: "Where's your catch basin?" Guess I really knew this was coming, so I had to unload all of our stored items from underneath our den. And sure enough, just like my neighbor said, there was the catch basin.Anyway, after all that, he got to work. He found that our sewer actually goes from the catch basin to the street down the side of the house and not through it. All of our waste water save for the actual human waste, goes into the catch basin. I have no idea how the human waste gets into the sewer. I was pressed for time and had to leave for O'Hare.Anyway, he cleared it all the way to the sewer main (90'). In so doing, he had two tough spots but he got through. When pulling out he found a bunch of root debris still attached, so that was the stoppage problem: roots. Bottom line: 90' = $269. Can't beat that with a stick.I'm happy and relieved that this adventure is over with.Take care.
Buy root killer at the hardware store, flush it down a couple of times a year.
Good luck.
Yessir! My mailman said the same thing: "Get Rid-X ASAP."That is definitely on my list next time I get over to HD or Lowe's.Thanks for the heads-up.
Have you considered replacing your sometimes-it-works sump pump?
Also, your second photo Clean-out_on_bathroomxsx_line.jpg
clearly shows a LEAD pipe drain that should be replaced (otherwise you are leaching lead into the waste water).
Jeff
We lived in a house where the water table in the area would rise during heavy rains.
It was common practice to seal the floor drains because of this. When the water table got high enough the floor drains would back up into the basement.
Many of these floor drains have a french drain under them. It's just a hole with gravel in it buried underground beneath the floor drain.
You can put a temporary plug in them.
Doesn't need one on his house, it is connected to the sewer. The joys of living in the north.