Replies

1. 
   Mike_Smith | Feb 19, 2002 05:47am | #1

   *
   frank.. are you a builder, remodeler, or designer...

   if you are primarily a designer.. maybe softplan is for you.. if you are a builder, remodeler.. you can get plans out the door ready to build faster with Chief...

   that's from 5 years of working with Chief after being on a board since '69..
   it's also based on lurking around vectorworks user group..

   and getting comparisons from those who've worked with Soft & Chief on our Chief user group.... all things are subjective.. and the above is certainly subjective...

   but that's my story and i'm stickin to it..

1. 
   Jeff_Jump | Feb 25, 2002 12:35am | #2

   *FrankI have used Chief Arch. for about 4 years and think its great. I don't have experience with any other Programs except AutoCad and thats used for different purposes, in fact I own & use both AutoCad LT and Chief Arch.I use autoCad for 2d and Chief for 3d and rendering s.Chief Architect is very easy to learn and does an excellent job, I know I've gotten some of my jobs because of the drawings.Just my two cents...Jeff

1. 
   piffin_ | Feb 25, 2002 02:44am | #3

   *There is nothing like this heading to spark a good healthy dicussion. To stay brief - my vote is for SP. Over at JLC live, Joe Stoddard has fielded several discussions on the same topic and he is familiar with both. At Splash we find many chief users moving up to SP and glad they did. Chief is good but not as powerful or as many options - though I confess to not being aware of their latest stuff.I remember when I was comparing both and I kept asking the Chief guy how to do this or that. His answer always seemed to be, "We can sell you this other program to..." These were all things that were built right into SP and I've never been disappointed with it.They include lifetime tech support free too.

1. 
   Brian_Smith | Feb 27, 2002 07:57am | #4

   *i would also suggest checking the chief forum. there was a category where users contributed suggestions for improvement. revealing. i was interested in mechanical systems design. chief has little to offer in this regard.don't know about softplan's limits in this area. will check. will also check their user's forum.brian

1. 
   piffin_ | Feb 27, 2002 08:15am | #5

   *Softplan is an architectural design package. Has limited basic CAD tools.Turbo cad or Autocad light or Vectorworks might be better choices for mechanical design.Basic CAD tools draw lines, circles, shapes, etc and regocnize them as such. X and Y axis is all you get. To those of us who drew lines and circles on paper and want to do similar with a computer a very inexpensive CAD program will do. Next step up is 3D modeling withability to rotate views. Y axis is added.Softplan is oject oriented. In other words, When you select a wall to draw it, you are not drawing a pair of lines that "represents" a wall as with a paper and pencil drawing or basic cad, you are actually drawing the wall that you selected. Within the bowels of the PC Softplan is drawing studs, sheathing, wallboard, etc. right down to the nails and insulation and adding all that to your materials list. You can create new walls to save that have just the dimensions and materials you want. The objects have associative properties - eg. the program knows that a bearing wall holds things up and needs a footing. It knows that an openning needs a header and places it. If you tell it that you want five inch trim on all your windows, that's what you'll get.But it doesn't have sheet metal, screws, bolts, tubes and other mechanical materials.(you could probably create them but that work and the lack of associative properties for the mechanical products would drive you insane)

2. 
   Mike_Smith | Feb 27, 2002 05:04pm | #6

   *Piffen can tell us more about Softplans inner workings , but i'll tell you what i know ...I did all of our drawing on a board since '69.. then i bought ACAD in about '84.. but i couldn't develop any proficiency with it so i went back to the boards until about '97.. there were a lot of choices in '97.. i chose Chief Architect..there are about 30 regular gurus who post to the chief.user.group..there are hundreds of lurkers... the average daily count is about 50 posts...most are US, some Kiwi, some Ozzie, some Canadian...most of the full time designers / architects who post there, own and use about 3 CAD programs.. they all own ACAD so they can talk to other design professionals..obviously, they also own Chief, some own Softplan, some Archicad.. there don't seem to be a lot who own Vectorworks and post there....maybe Nick Pitz can tell us what VW is up to... in my lurking capacity on the Chief.user group, and in discussions with architects who have Archicad, Vectorworks, AutoCad.. the concensus is .. if you want construction drawings out the door to the building inspector, or to build a 3d model to walk your customers thru.. the fastest will be Chief..if you are more concerned with exact detail.... you will be better off with Vector works, Archicad, or Autocad.. also if your office has shared design responsibilities with multi-work stations.. choose one of the 3...Chief is also object oriented.. you define the wall layers, the window specs, doors.. etc.. you don't draw in architectural mode.. you locate things with a mouse.. if you split your screen, you can seen what you are "drawing" being built in 3D..complicated roofs are "relatively" easy to do with Chief.. they are all polylines that can be broken , stretched and extended..you can use cameras for section, 3d view, cutaway view.. you can use a render camera, you can control the lighting in render both electrical and solar.. you can manipulate terrain ..as a builder with limited design time , i find that i use about 25% of the ability of Chief.. but it's all there if i want to learn some of the new skills. In other words...you can put as much into the model as you want .. or as little as you need.. Softplan is a little more of a mystery to me.. the people who use both and post to Chief users say you can't get into the SoftPlan user group unless you own the program..people who have had the demo for Soft at their office were not as impressed as the Chief demosThe ability to manipulate Soft comes at a higher commitment to learning the program than most are willing to give... Chief has served me well in residential design work by getting the drawings done...If you are interested in Chief, you can get a full demo CD.. the only limitations that i know of are you can't SAVE and you can't PRINT..also .. each CAD program is continually updating.. they have to get new versions out the door to meet the competition and keep up with the desires of their users for more features...Chief is on an apx. release schedule of 14 months..We first bought Chief with Vs. 5.0 in '97 and have gone thru 6.0,7.0, and now 8.0.Everytime there is a new release there is a shakedown period. So , we always upgrade immediately, but we don't use the version for production until they work all the bugs out. As near as i can tell , all of the CAD companies have the same problem. First they develop the parameters for the upgrade.. write the software... Alpha test in-house... Beta test with a stable of Guru -users.. do initial debug.. then release the version... after the production users get their hands on the new release... they debug again and release a patch..so my current working version of Chief is 7.02..and we're looking forward to 8.02.. but the 8.0 version is some slick...Softplan and Vectorworks have both made recent releases as far as i know. And.. AutoCad got tired of being left in the dust by all of the 3D CAD so they bought REVIT.. get ready to say good by to Architectural Desktop, as the consensus is they'll keep ACAD for CAD and push REVIT for 3d architectural..hard to ignore ACAD as the elephant sitting in your living room.Anyways... the commitment to any of these programs is about like this..new equipment to utilize the capabilities of the software, then buy the software, then buy the periferals like a wide body printer, then make a commitment to continual training in the use of the software, then , if you are serious about the design aspects , you have to decide if you will upgrade with the new releases..and this seems to be universal with all of them... ACAD, Softplan, Chief, Archicad, Vectorworks...if your software mfr. doesn't operate like this , they will NOT be in business in 3 years because they can't support their operating costs with out a base group of users and an income stream from selling new releases..so they will either be kaput or get bought up and be subject to teh management wishes of teh new owner.so... like anything else we do as builders, CAD is just another limb on your decision tree.. whatever works for you is what's right for you..all it takes is time and money...and time

3. 
   The_Tennis_Court_Builder_...on_t | Feb 27, 2002 08:53pm | #7

   *Mike... great post.... even better than your usual!near the stream standing behind the man,aj

4. 
   piffin_ | Feb 28, 2002 05:38am | #8

   *"Chief users say you can't get into the SoftPlan user group unless you own the program.. "Actually you can register as a guest for a couple weeks. The fee for joining is 75 bucks and has been one of the most worthwhile benefits I have ever invested in. Tech support is with the company but the user group is independently organized by users.http://www.softplansplash.orgChief does seem to be easier to learn but I picked up SP enuf to be operational in a weeks time. Never will get it all. SP has recently won some competitive awards against Autocad and is becoming the standard against which to measure architectural CAD. From a practical standpoint, most builders and remodelers like to have drawings that present a structure and a direction but want to work out most of the details on site since reality sometimes conflicts with paperworld. With that in mind Chief, being a little simpler and easier to learn, really can be the best choice for many builders. RE hard to learn. This may be because each of us has diff methods of thinking and learning and processing. That is why Chief and SP might appeal to diff persons in diff ways. SP and Chief are both definitely easier than a regular CAD program because you get to think like a builder or designer instead of learning to think like a computer nerd. eg. in SP instaed of calling it a lyer, it is a plan or a foundation or a roof, etc.No intent to knock Chief, I'm just in love with my SP to which I'm married. I could take any of the above to the dance though.Because I really love doing detail drawings and because I do so much non-standard customized work, I would really look into Vectorworks if I were buying afresh. An Interior Designer I often work with uses it for his details. I still love SP and would not begin to imagine designing without it.

5. 
   Mike_Smith | Feb 28, 2002 06:33am | #9

   *piffen .. it must be the $75 entry fee that scared those cheap Chief guys off... my friend.. who dug ditches for me when he was 17 , now owns his own NYC design firm....his roommate wrote the early Autocad manuals.. his staff of 20 is all Vectorworks.. and their output is a lot of $10 million to $15 million homes in the Hamptons and goldcoast of CT... the detail in some of those plans is superb..like i said.. all it takes is a little money and a LOT of time...

6. 
   d_j_k | Feb 28, 2002 09:28am | #10

   *I'm a happy Softplan user.Chief is a great product as well.Both companies offer free trial periods , so try emand buy the one you like.DJ