Replies

1. 
   Piffin | Jul 10, 2005 02:05am | #1

   Since I am not an HVAC guy, this is mostly to bump your message to attention of others

   But I think it is insane to line it without usiung stainless steel. Whether code requires it is beyond my ken.

   If th eliner goes above the elevatiuo of the roof, that is possibly acceptable. I know it once was common.

   Sizing - the paperwork that came with your burner states the required size of flue and most have it stamped somewhere on the unit itself. It is a certainty and a definite rule that you NEVER neck a flue down in size. If the flue connect at the boiler is 36 Sq In, you cannot connect to a flue that is 34.5 square inches.

    

    

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1. 
   Hazlett | Jul 10, 2005 08:41pm | #9

     Piffen,

    any chance you and I are the last 2 people alive that use the word (ken) ?

1. 
   Piffin | Jul 11, 2005 06:51am | #10

   Must be a cult. I learned it in Florida, from folk who use it. Short for reckoning, I reckon. 

    

   Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!

2. 
   Sphere | Jul 10, 2005 03:16am | #2

   I think Bob Walker here has a handle on the possible ramifications..

   one that hits me immediatly is the termination cap..if CO2 COULD fall back outside the liner ( it is heavier than air at sea level)...you COULD be having a draft of it getting inside the dwelling.

   Now don't be skeeerd yet..the appliance fittings may be air tite.

   If you see rust after one yr...some one F'ed you without a kiss first.

     Spheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks

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1. 
   rjw | Jul 10, 2005 03:43am | #5

   >>one that hits me immediatly is the termination cap..if CO2 COULD fall back outside the liner ( it is heavier than air at sea level)...you COULD be having a draft of it getting inside the dwelling.I was thinking about that.Typically, of course, the CO2 should be hot enough to keep going up, and you'd think there would also be uplift outside the liner from heat exchange.But I just don't know. As I mentioned in the other message, I just don't like the idea of potential weird air currents that could be created at the top of the flue liner and below the top of the chimney, itself.The more I learn and experience with darfting issues, the less "intuitive" it seemsThe rust he mentioned, though, could be a sign of drfating problems, especially after only 1 year

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1. 
   Sphere | Jul 10, 2005 03:59am | #6

   I agree. It definatly needs a face to face to deduce what may be going on.

   Re: the heat= rise factor..I am not sold on that yet..some cold flames can really limit the Laws of Newton..(G)  Spheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks

   What are dreadlocks made from?

3. 
   rjw | Jul 10, 2005 03:20am | #3

   The flue liner terminates below the top of the chimney?

   I think that's wrong: a flue always has to terminate a specified distance above another building components, and I would argue that with the flue liner being installed, the chimney is "just another building component."

   While it might seem bizarre, in my experience, allowing anything to create unusual air currents and eddies around the top of the flue is a sure fire way to screw up drafting of the unit.

   As I'm picturing the installation, the more I think about it, the less I like it.

   For the flue sizing, there are tables for this sort of thing, but they are, ultimately, just guidelines: the units should have been tested after installation with a draft gauge for between 0.01 and 0.02 wcin draft. There should be a covered or plugged 1/4" drill hole between the heater and the barometric damper.

   Also: where are the signs of rust? At the top of the flue? At the elbows in the utility room? At the flue liner joints?

   And how much rust is there?

   >>Not attached to the chimney cap

   Do you mean the concrete "pad" around the top of the chimney on top of the brick? Or a metal cap which keeps rain/snow out of the flue liner?

   With gas equipment, there would have to be a metal cap on the top of the metal flue liner, per the flue manufacturer's specs. I'm not sure about oil, but I doubt if it would be different.

   See, e.g.: http://www.selkirkcanada.com/products/venting/documents/886106lt.pdf

   If the original installer is giving you a hard time, I'd go with another heating contractor. The first guy isn't going to do anything worthwhile - his heart isn't in it, and he might be a bozo.

   Given the risks of improper venting, spend the extra bucks for someone else.

   Can you post pictures?

   ---

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   Sojourners: Christians for Justice and Peace

   
   

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   Edited 7/9/2005 8:38 pm ET by Bob Walker

1. 
   Sphere | Jul 10, 2005 03:29am | #4

   I knew you'd handle it.  Spheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks

   What are dreadlocks made from?

4. 
   seeyou | Jul 10, 2005 06:13pm | #7

   I'm pretty sure it's not to code. If it's rusting, it's not stainless, but probably galvanized, which is not an acceptable material for a masonry chimney liner.

   See if you can get your hands on a copy of NFPA 211, which is the national code concerning combustion and venting devices. Your local code may be stricter, but this will give you a good idea.

   Probably the earliest fly swatters were nothing more than some
   sort of striking surface attached to the end of a long stick.

1. 
   Sphere | Jul 10, 2005 07:28pm | #8

   Hey..(hijack)

   we plan on welding up the trailer if we get swamped by rain...OK with you?

   Pugh is all set, finished by lunch.  Spheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks

   What are dreadlocks made from?