Chimney repair above an asbestos roof
RichBeckman
| Posted in General Discussion on
I understand the best choice would be to use a lift. But that would require removing an vine covered arbor and cutting down a bush or two.
So how fragile are the asbestos shingles generally??
I envision a scaffold setting on plywood with cushioning under it!
But I don’t know.
Thoughts please.
Thanks.
Rich Beckman
Another day, another tool.
Replies
That type of asbestos shingle can be treated as slate for removal and re laying .
If you have a slater's ripper you could remove some in strategic places to enable you to set stagings and then put them back in with slate hooks after you're finished.
Do you have a set of chimney bracket scaffolds? That would make the set up real solid and easy to work from.
You could pad them and do as you suggest too,but it will be more secure and safer if you nail thru where you have removed tiles.
Slateman,Really? Remove and replace the shingles?! That never occured to me!I don't have a ripper. And I'm not sure I want to try that. I'll have to think that over.If I do not use a lift, I was going to be securing the "scaffolding" by hooking over the ridge. The padding would only be to protect the shingles.Thanks.Rich BeckmanAnother day, another tool.
what are you doing to the chimney , Rich?
Try using a couple of hook ladders---one on each side of the chimney.. If you need to----additionally you can use some ladder jacks on the hook ladders and run a plank in between.
Stephen
Stephen,The top couple of feet of the chimney has virtually no mortar left. I tried to interest the homeowner in fixing it a couple of years ago when I noticed I could see daylight coming all the way through.She wasn't interested then, but now that a few bricks have fallen..."Try using a couple of hook ladders---one on each side of the chimney"That sounds fine. How much danger is there of breaking a shingle?Thanks.Rich BeckmanAnother day, another tool.
Stephen's idea is a good one .I've topped out chimneys off ladders and brackets over the ridge,but it's tight to the chimney that way.Vanguard makes a chimney scaffold with an adjustable set of supports to make the top platform level.
It also will accept lifts of pipe staging since it's the same 5'x7' dimension as standard frames.That way you can have a nice wide platform to work from.
A lot of masons in my area have me set staging for them when it's a "hard" roof,meaning slate,tile or asbestos.Maybe you've got someone nearby to do the same for you.
Rich,
the ones I have been on---the tiles are quite durable and flat. there was a little flex to 'em---not like that asbestos tile siding which is brittle as hell.
I am assuming that chimney is close to the ridge---so it's not high above the roof line?????.
I would do it from 2 hook ladders-----maybe not even the plank between'em.
One warning though---- those lichens and moss and stuff growing on 'em??????
slippery as effen hell!!!!!---unbelievably slippery when damp even from dew---so watch out.
I haven't broke any yet------but If I did, I have a yard 40 minutes away that sells reclaimed slate, tile etc. that I could get a reasonable repair piece from.
that availability seems to gauranty that I don't break any----if they really were irreplaceable---then I would be sure to break a few!!! LOL
BTW---you aren't being suckered into this by a little old lady with no money are you???
Stephen
My butt has never hit bottom so fast as when I stepped on damp moss on an asbestos roof!
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The moss issue brings up a good point of interest.Yes the roof becomes very slippery when damp moss is on it,but the real concern is that moss indicates the softening of the cement so that it can act as a host for the moss to grow.With that overhanging tree the roof stays more shaded and damp and the tiles after 75 years or more become softer and will then develop moss on them.This is a signal that the roof is nearing the end of it's useful life.
I'm currently removing about 60 sq.'s of diamond shaped asbestos tiles-properly disposing of same at 100/ton plus transport costs.The new roof is North Country black slate from Quebec.
I'm currently removing about 60 sq.'s of diamond shaped asbestos tiles-properly disposing of same at 100/ton plus transport costs
You considered hanging on to a couple or three squares to sell for repairs? I've seen at least one person a year on this forum looking for same.OOPS, I did it again.............................
Yes,I always have on hand replacements for my needs in repairing old roofs.
DEP wants to know I have a manifest for licensed disposal,but I do save some out.
Same for slate salvage,save roofs that others want changed over to Architecturals or if a building is coming down.
thanks for the info slateman---
that explains why---when I encounter them they seem to have a slight bit of flex to 'em------not really brittle.
stephen
piffen,
I wouldn't do it now---but,
the first entire house roof I did---after going into business for my self------- I did solo. It was a tear-off with these asbestos tiles.
I had a 2x8 on roof jacks at the roof edge and a hook ladder up to the ridge.
when I found out how slippery that dew covered lichen/moss/fungus stuff was------
I spent about 5 minutes using that roof like a sliding board from the ridge to the 2x8 ( about 16 feet)
In hind sight--it was stupid as all get out----I had a stay at home wife and 2 kids under 24 months old-----------
but for those few minutes I was free, Free ,FREE----I was out of the chrome plating shop, in business for my self and under the open sky! What could be better?
I still see that house quite frequently----not every day---but almost every week.
Stephen
My memories are a bit more painful
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Rich, before you tackle the repair, why is the mortar gone? Usually because of no liner and the chimney is oversized. What is the condition of the mortar farther down. I've seen chimneys that were leaking exhaust gases into the house. Be careful. You touch it, you bought it.
"... why is the mortar gone? Usually because of no liner and the chimney is oversized. What is the condition of the mortar farther down. I've seen chimneys that were leaking exhaust gases into the house. Be careful. You touch it, you bought it."Ah HA!!!Yes, when I was there the voice in the back of my mind was trying to say something about "no liner".I don't fully understand how no liner and oversized leads to missing mortar...But I'm nearly certain that there is no liner.I guess a real chimney expert should be looking at this.Thanks to all!Rich BeckmanAnother day, another tool.
Oversized means the draft is slower moving gasses out. that results in more precipitates and condensates = more sulphuric acid to eat the mortar
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Rich,
When that house was built it was not uncommon to build unlined chimneys using lime mortar .It's very common for a chimney so old to need to be re-topped,there are lots of them in every town in similar stages of deterioration.
It's understandable if you don't feel comfortable doing this job,but it's really no big deal to complete this repair.Why not sub it out to a mason friend?
Well, I was just getting comfortable with the idea of doing the job when the missing liner was brought up.But having had time to think about it, maybe I'm willing to install a liner (or sub that part of the job).I'll try to look at it and talk to the homeowner again on Tuesday.Rich BeckmanAnother day, another tool.
A liner doesn't need to be installed at this time.The chimney needs to be repaired so that bricks don't harm the roof or passersby.The boiler or furnace has functioned without a liner for who knows how long.
In Maine if you were to install a new boiler on that chimney then code states it must be lined for your mechanic to legally install it.A functioning unit can remain indefinately.
You are right, it doesn't have to be lined, but the fact is, the chimney has failed. Why would you not repair it properly?
From Rich Beckmans first post it seemed that money might be a concern since the lady held off a year or so until bricks actually fell.
It does make much sense to do both with one roof set up if the budget will allow.
My point was that they could be done one at a time,but you're also correct it would be better to combine the work.
slateman----and Rich,
another thing about missing flue liners------
I have found a lot of chimneys that ARE lined with clay flues----but the flues sections don't reach all the way to the top of the chimney. the flue sections stop several feet below the the top of the chimney. Often the top 4 feet of the chimney needs rebuilt, and on lower pitched roofs, or chimneys near the ridge----we re-build from the roof line up.
In fact, rich and I may have had a brief conversation about this on another occasion.
It's definite;y a " profit opportunity" for you Rich----I stumble across a few of these every year or so and it's always a nice score------plus the sub does the real work( somes I labor for him and hump the bricks up and down the ladder for him-, and bucket the mud up to the roof for him.
Best wishes, Stephen
Don't forget, if a liner is installed, the chimney should still be repaired. There still may be work for you, if you really like working on slippery roofs. LOL.
My experience (limited) is that they are more brittle than slate. (there were several different thicknesses, from what I have seen, and the thinner ones would almost certainly be more brittle than the thicker.)
I'd be cautious about using a ripper and removing them, unless you know some old roofers who have a stash they use for repairs.
It would be possible for an experienced hand like the Slateman to rem,ove and save for re-installation
But
In the photo, I see a couple with broken corners already and I bel;ieve I see one at the upper chimney corner well beedded to the criket flashing with caulk, suggesting previous repairs. I would figure on losing a third of these to breakage if I were removing them, based on previous experiences with asbestos shingles. On easy good ones you can lose 5-10% anyway So find a source for replacements first.
But then you might end up looking for replacements even if you do the scaffold over it deal with cushions.
My concern would be a disclaimer and disavowing futrure responsibility on this deal, if a lawyer could write me a good loophole, and adding a generous risk factor. The whole thing couild escalate - you fail to find replacements, than it leaks and you have to replace the whole roof, then you find how hifgh costs for disposing olde asabestos is, then you meet the bankruptcy judge, then you...
Naaw, I might just pass on this one
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Rich,
If you think replacements are in order than find some first as others have suggested.
A source to look for them might be http://www.jenkinsslate.com
They have several names of recycled asbestos shingle salvagers-although I bet there are roofers locally that would have some that match whats on this roof.That can't be the only house with those shingles in your town.
Lots of times there are extras stored in the cellar or attic of the home itself since most good roofers would leave spares for future replacement on a roof expected to last for 80 to 100 years.