On the drive home tonight, I was thinking about the Christmas bonuses for the guys this year.
What do you guys think about this? I was trying to figure out how much to give each guy. But the more I thought about it, it seems like everyone should get the same amount.
I have three guys right now that I’m very happy with. They do not all have equal skills, but they don’t all have equal wages either. They haven’t all been with me the for the same amount of time, but again… they don’t all have equal wages either.
What I’m getting at, is that all three guys do their job equally well. I’m happy with all of them. It’s just that, in my eyes, they each have different jobs. I expect more production, more responsiblity, and better skills out of my highest paid guy than I do from my newest guy. And they are compensated accordingly.
Should a Christmas bonus reflect their wages and time with me, or should it just be a reflection of my gratitude for a job well done… because they all do their jobs equally well, even though they don’t all really have the same job? Should their skills and time play a part in the amount of the bonus, or should it simply be a reflection of my gratitude? I appreciate all of them equally and they are all equally important in my ‘system’ even though some are naturally more easily replaced than others should the time come.
Have I explained my train of thought, or is that about as clear as mud? I’m really on the fence about this. Someone come knock me to one side or the other please.
Replies
I'll take a stab. I remember being the recipient of christmas bonuses and all the guys would inevitably ask each other what they got. The guy who got the least amount often felt a little hurt or betrayed somehow. Not saying they should feel that way, and that it is still a gift from above and beyond their normal salary. When I was the bonus-giver, I gave an equal amount to the core guys. Dollars are dollars, they all pay the same price at the bar or for gas, you get the idea.
When I did have employees I would give them one weeks wages as a bonus. I figure this way the higher paid(theoretically better) would get a better bonus. If the guys wanted to tell each other who got what, it was easy to explain.
I also always have a holiday party. I invite everyone I work with on a regular basis. Subs, yard guys, kitchen designers, architects, whoever. Just take over a bar for an afternoon/evening and run a tab. Food/drink on me.
Stacy's mom has got it going on.
Any that ave been with you less than a year might get pro-rated or reduced somehow. But after that, they should probably all get the same, since it's niot a performance bonus.
"When asked if you can do something, tell'em "Why certainly I can", then get busy and find a way to do it." T. Roosevelt
One day's/week's pay is fair and explainable.
Longtime lurker, first time poster.
Seems like this board and this question is directed at the bosses for the most part, but I thought I'd give ya an employee's view. My boss gives us all a set amount for every month we've been with the company that year. Say $100 a month which works out to 4 months = $400, 12 months = $1200, etc.
Hope that helps. Last year they gave us some sweet embroidered jackets too.
side track here, just wanted to say I like the quote in your profile
To continue: Thanks. All too true.Rock Chalk, Jayhawk, KU. (Lived in Wichita for 11 years, wish I was back there. Now I watch Paul Pierce and Raef LaFrentz in Celtics uniforms.)
I'm still in Lawrence, went to the game on Saturday even, not looking so hot this year, but we're young.
I had a class with Paul Pierce when I was in undergrad, he can sure play, but he ain't the brightest bulb in the fixture if you know what I mean.
My gut says everyone should get the same, for the same reasons TGNY mentioned, it will come up in conversation and no sense having someone get bent out of shape because they got less
On the other hand, it's "free" money so everyone should be thankful for what ever they get no matter the amount or what their co-workers may have recieved.
In a larger company it would be easier, Lead carps get $$$, assistants get $$ and laborers get $
but with only 3 guys, if it were me, I'd make it equal.
On the other hand I feel I deserve at least twice the next highest guys bonus ;)
All good perspectives. Here's another employee's perspective that might cast some new light. The first year I was with a company in the Northeast, I got a bonus that was significantly larger than I was expecting. (Maybe I was expecting too little, or maybe they were super generous.) IIRC, I hadn't even been with them a year. I took the bonus in two ways - (1) they appreciated the job I did and valued my presence on their team, and (2) they wanted to keep me happy, reducing the likelihood that I would look elsewhere...This was not a Christmas bonus, but an annual bonus. Then again, maybe I had been there a full year... Yeah, I think I had. Christmas bonuses there were equal for all employees.
We get one or two weeks pay depending on how the year went. We also get a very cool gift. It's usualy a jacket or coveralls of some sort. And you can tell that some thought went into it. We also get our annual raises. Standard is a dollar an hour. Last year I got two bucks!
Whatever you do find a way to convey to the guys that you are actualy showing how much you apreciate them and it's not some token deal.
I don't know what your guys think of you. I can't see how it would be anything but good.(until of course you start slamming the power drinks.) But we always have a few cynical guys that no matter what the boss does it's never good enough.
http://tinyurl.com/755qq <------ Check out this auction.
For the same ol' same ol' I'll second the weeks pay as being decent and fair.
Having said that, I can't remember the amount of any of my past bonuses--it's just another check. Nice, but just another check.
What I'll always remember was a quarterly bonus of 100 board feet of nice looking oak. The boss knew I was building a few stocky mission tables for personal use and simply surprised me with the goods. How thoughtful and it's something I'll remember everytime bonuses come out, probably for the rest of my life.
If I were devising a Christmas bonus for the guys I work with it would be something like this:
-- Lie Nelson # 4-1/2 for carp 1
-- Lie nelson adjustable mouth block plane & small fixed plane for carp 2
-- basic 10" major brand miter saw for laborer 1
-- oxy bags for laborers 2, 3 & 4
-- Senco 15 g finish nailer for carp 3
-- a basic dewalt laser for carp 4
-- 8'-12' Stabila framing level for carp 5
-- 2' x 4' greenlee storage box for carp 6
The crazy thing is that every one of these bonuses is only worth a fraction of a weeks pay, but they would be all grins. These are items that they want, but can't seem to find a way to justify the purchase since they are considered "luxury" items, at least to each individual.
Happy holidays,
Don
When I was in the framing business I'de have 3 tiers set up , a percentage for foremen, a percentage for the carpenters, and a percentage for the helpers. I don't think it's fair for a helper getting what you'de give your foremen .
I've nevr had more than one employee/helper at any one time ... so I can't be much use there ... last time ... gave the kid an extra $250 cash then took him and my wife out to eat and drink at a great local steak place ... had our little "company xmas party"
back when I was an enployee ... I remember the "xmas bonus" fiasco's ...
that company had helpers ... carps ... lead carps ... and a project manager ...
plus 3 owners.
first year ... I was suprised to see the "xmas bonus" in my check ... as I'd only been with them a coupla weeks. Didn't pay much attention .. as I was still too new.
The following year ... I got the same amount. I think it was $300 ...
we all talked ... seemed $300 was the going rate .. for everyone.
as an employee ... I thot that very unfair.
Not to me ... but to the leads and project manager.
for the money "brought it" ... if $300 was good enough for me ... the leads shoulda got at least $500 and more like $1000 ... and the PM shoulda got a hair above that.
their jobs "deserved" more ... plus .. woulda made for something to strive for.
That's also why I was "just a carpenter" ... I was topped out at the carp scale of $15.50. Leads started at $15.50 and went to $18 ... though at that time ... only one guy was making $18. All the other leads were making $16.
for $.50 more pre hour ... I stuck with half the work and none of the BS.
No incentive .. dollar wise ... to move up. Told them consistently that I'd jump to lead and start at $17 ... but like the xmas bonus ... they never saw my logic.
Jeff
Buck Construction
Artistry In Carpentry
Pittsburgh Pa
I'd like a cool tool and money.
I think either way sounds fair, deisel - either a day's pay, or the same for everyone, since they each contributed to the sucess of the team.
The egalitarian in me would like to say equal bonuses send the message that everyone contributes equally, but that simply isn't always true. To figure out who's most critical to the operation just imagine which one can call in sick and you not have an annurism trying to compensate for them not being there.
I sure appreciate the serious thought you give this kind of stuff though. Must be a real good leader. Those are some lucky guys working with you.
Brian,
As you know, I am an employee and not THE boss. However, we are a family business so in many decisions, my boss relies on my judgement to a point.
We've had cases in the past where a bonus was related to how many years you have been here. Right now vacation and sick pay are done that way. The bonus part (above medical, and any other benefits or perks) didn't seem to work too well. At the beginning of the year, or whenever an employee started, we'd have a company meeting and the boss would outline what he expected of the employees and he would also outline his criteria for what a bonus would be based on.
Basically any skills that you develop off site with some overlap onsite, will be rewarded by a bonus. For instance, instead of a framer cutting a pile of 2x10 into scrap to get the roof framed, if a framer spent some of his own time "boning" up on roof framing and came out to the site and used those skills thus benefitting the company, that guy would get a bonus. He needed to keep up that attitude.
That's just one example, it might be that a trim guy shows that he wants to accept more responsibility and that he can do it. Then he is a bonus candidate.
Here its all about attitude. If a guy comes in and puts his 8 hours in and does a good job, he'll get a raise, but if he comes in and is always trying to improve and really improving, he'll get a bonus. We want to keep him and invest in him.
As far as your case, have you communicated with the guys collectively or individually? Our policy here is that under NO circumstance do the guys talk about what they make or recieve. No one is identical and no two people are the same, so compensations can never be totally equal.
An option I see for you might be giving them the same amount of $, but maybe buying them a tool that fits their skills.
I'll tell you this though, you sound like a cool boss and if something ever happens here, I'll come work for you. I think your guys are lucky that you are putting this amount of thought into this.
Make your Christmas bonuses equal and the pay raises, whenever you give them, individual. Christmas is a good time to treat all as equal and it sounds like all of your guys give you their best efforts. If someone's "dancin as fast as he can", reguardless of results, what more can you ask.
I also think it's great that you're so conscious of making sure that your guys know they are appreciated.
I think the best suggestion so far is to somehow relate the bonus to wages. A "fair" person will understand that his superior should get a larger bonus than he.
Over the last couple of years, with a couple of different bosses, I've received gift cards to grocery stores (not as the ONLY bonus). Those are nice because food bills can get a little high over the holidays, particularly if you have company.
But the nicest gesture is a little bit of money and something thoughtful that lets the employee know that you were thinking of him. As an employee, one of the most important things to enjoying a job (and ALWAYS doing the best/fastest job possible) is feeling appreciated. And it sounds lame, but something "personalized" makes you feel special. And if I were to guess, that's what you're shooting for. Special = retention.
Just like with your girlfriend or your wife, it's not always the amount you spend, but how the gift makes the recipient feel.
As a side note:
What the heck is up with co-workers discussing wages and bonuses?
I don't ask my parents what they make, I don't ask my friends what they make, and I certainly don't ask my co-workers what they make.
The first paycheck job I ever had was working for my Dad. And the first thing he told me was to never discuss your wage.
I'm pretty young and I think that people older than me can still be really tacky about financial issues, ie. when someone asks you how much you paid for/sold your house.
Am I the only one?
Bluemoose, it's not tacky to ask the selling price or buying price of a home because all that information is already public record. They can get that information by visiting the register of deeds, or they can ask you. When they ask, you always have the option of not discussing it.
Now, about xmas bonuses: it's bad policy. Don't do them. Pay your guys right each and every day and you won't need to add "bonus" money. Bonus money will ALWAYS leave one segment or the other angry. I remember getting a $2500 bonus one year and was disappointed because I had gotten that same amount the year before. Workers never thinks that this year's bonus should be the same or smaller than last year.
blue
brian,Part of me agrees with blue.I have only gotten maybe two or three Christmass bonuses in my life. 'course, most of my life i've been self employed.But I sit and think about this subject --- if this is a christmas bonus, it is a holiday gift to show appreciation. If that premise is correct, they should all get the same gift, because you appreciate all of them.Most of the copmments seem to link this in their thinking to a performance bonus which is entirely different.
I have paid tips and bonuses for performance as I see it happen to keep them motivatedd year round. The Christmas bonus I hear others talking about sometimes is 'expected' and not always graciously accepted as a gift. A dual bonus system can work to spread theis good will out. A performance bonus absolutely should be pro-rated according to value to the company as a motivator, but an appreciation bonus is based on your appreciation for their willingness and presence.I think you have a grand future for yourself, as a businessman and a builder, not just because of your skills, but you are obviously a leader, so you will make the right choice for yourself, your men, and your company. You know them best and your own goals , but you are wise to ask and listen to what you hear first here. So I won't presume to say what you should do.
I suspect your men will jump through flaming hoops for you somedays
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
I think it's a good point that home sale prices are public record. In fact, where I lived previously, the buyer, seller and the price were published in the newspaper.If I'm good friends with the neighbor I don't mind. But people I'd only spoken to occasionally would ask. And I know they have a keen interest because it reflects on their home's value. I just think that instead of asking me, if they were really interested, they could do a bit of research.Instead, if I opt to not reply, I look like the big jerk!
As for discussing wages at work, it's part of being "in business" as an employee.
I'm a big fan of each employee treating their career as a business. Part of that is having an idea of what others in their market are making. What skills, knowledge, abilities and attitudes are employers paying extra for? What good is professional development if an employee doesn't know what to work on? Once an employee knows what is valued, and improves himself he then needs to market that to his current employer so he gets a fair shake. It's about providing a service in a professional manner.
Nit picking over who makes more money or using that information for other purposes is immature and counter productive, but that's something different. That's not professional behavior.
There hasn't been a job I've ever had where it wasn't common knowledge who made what. It shows what's valuable in an employee and shows younger carps a direction to grow in to make the better wages.
Having said that, I've never worked anywhere except pay for performance jobs. We've never cared who was there the longest or who wanted to spend the next 10 years with the crew. It was about who is going to make the largest contribution to the completion of our projects this year. If I'm making more money than someone else it's because I'm supplying a more valuable service to our employer. For the type of carpentry I like that's the way the world works.
What I really hate to see are good carps that don't take care of their career and end up making a fraction of what they are worth. One of the absolute best all around carpenters I've ever had the pleasure to work with made exactly the same amount as the most reliable laborer at my previous job. He had no idea what the construction market was or how he stacked up against the others because he tried to be as reliable and as much a long-term employee as possible. He was being taken advantage of, pure and simple.
As for employer threats about disclosing wages, who are they kidding? The thought that close personal friends, that often spend more time together than with their families, would not discuss the financial side of the job is silly.
Networking is part of doing business. Once when asked by the boss what I would do if fired, I replied, "Well, it took 5 minutes of calling the best contractors to land this job and I'm confident that in 5 minutes I'd have a good chance of making more money with someone else. If Larry or Darrel were to get fired, Company X would probably hire them at $xx/hr. for two big projects coming up." That wasn't what he wanted to hear, but I wasn't hired to sugar coat situations or blow smoke up his buttt. As a contractor he had no idea what his competition was working on, let alone what they paid their carps.
The great thing about treating a career as a business is that employees are empowered to be their best, to produce their best, to have the most job security, to simply get things done in win-win relationships with everyone involved.
If you couldn't tell, I'm a proponent for strong employees. :-)
Cheers,
Don
I'm with you. I don't discuss my pay, don't ask others theirs. What do I care what they make.
Brian, as far as bonus's go I have worked at places where I got them, I don't think I got the same as others and I (like Buck) didn't feel that I deserved the same as others.
I always had the attitude that it was a bonus, anything above O is a bonus and therefore its extra, I never complained about extra.
I guess I'd wonder about anybody that thought that they were entitled to or felt slighted because of a discrepancy in the bonus.
Do your employees discuss there pay? That might help you decide, wouldn't mean much to me though.
Doug
I really appreciate all the thoughtful replies guys. There's some good thoughts flying around. I don't really have time to respond to each right now as I'm running late. :(
The consensus seems to be split almost 50/50 though..... no wonder why I was confusing myself!
Got my Christmas bonus early last week- a layoff.
to all,
this is an interesting question that seems to come up here every year.
As a former employee--- I like Idaho Don's suggestion of high end tools etc.
To me----- this would make the biggest impression long term---- it's a gift( Like the LN plane) that would still be impressing me DECADES after cash was spent----and there would be a little story , fondly handed down to kids and grandkids with that plane----maybe even a memeory about the specific project you were working on when you recieved the gift.---- to me it seems like a GIFT.
Other than that---in general I am opposed to a XMAS bonus. WHY ?????--because usually it seems either to be extortion on the employees part---or a brobe on the employers part( or guilt money for not paying proper wages.
there seems to be a fairly common feeling that employers are somehow obligated to give an xmas bonus---and that if an employee doesn't get one---he has been cheated.
for employers who feel a deep sense of gratitude towards their employees and wish to express it---- again, I like Idaho Dons suggestion
BUT-------- otherwise---- employers--do your employees feel a deep sense of gratitude towards YOU and the Job you have created for them? do your employees feel gratefull enough to give YOU a nice gift???? LOL
also----- anyone thinking about baseing a " bonus" on a percieved skill level---- this may be inherently and grossly unfair.---- On shingle crews, perhaps the lowest paid guy is a groundman---basically a laborer. that groundman may contribute MORE to the overall productivity of a crew than any other employee--- he is cleaning up debris at the same time he is humping shingles up a ladder while simultaneously pre cutting lengths of felt on the ground, while packing and unpacking trucks etc.---- A GOOD groundman can easily save a average crew of 4-5 men 1-2 hours a day---that's say 2 hours times 5 mens' wages---- no other single employee can make that impact---other than the boss---day after day after day.------- Installers can come and go---but that GOOD ground man is like gold.----maybe a bonus could give some recognition to that.
All of that said-----what do I do?---well I avoid having employees as much as possible in the first place----------and I NEVER have them by XMAS time. I frequently have a lower level helper around Memorial day or the 4th of july. Usually it's a guy just starting out and I have already helped him accumulate nailbags, a hatchet,tape measure, chalkline, flat bar, 2 utility knives etc. I might give him one days pay----and sometimes after a job that has gone particularly well I might slip him an extra $50.
Best wishes, Stephen
Got my Christmas bonus early last week- a layoff.
That's sucks. I'm always just a little uneasy this time of year because my company tends to do layoff right before Xmas if they're going to do them. That way they don't have to pay a bonus or vacation time for the next year. jt8
"The cynic is one who knows the price of everything and the value of nothing." --Oscar Wilde
That's a great idea too, John. But I did the embroidered Carhartt Arctic short jackets last year. They're so nice that nobody but me will wear them to work! Seriously, those are very nice jackets.
I like the idea of bonuses based on the profitability of the company. If the employees have worked to amke the company profitable, they get a bigger bonus. If they haven't, they get a smaller one.I think this makes the long-term employees more aware of how important it is to turn a profit. Otherwise, what do they care if you make money or not?
It is an unfortunate fact that we can secure peace only by preparing for war. [John F. Kennedy]
My boss gave me a $hitty bonus last year. I understand it's optional, and I apreciate it anyway. But he gave me the reason that it was becase we had some problems collecting money we were owed. Even though I was busting my hump because we had plenty of work. THAT made me think about my job security, and why I was getting screwed because my boss is good at his craft, but on shaky ground when it comes to administration. Anyway, point was that if he never said anything I would have just been happy to get anything and that was that.Anyway, I think that Letting your employees know how appreciated they are is a year round day to day event. As far as bonuses go, it's all in the delivery. I like the idea other people have had/done about christmas parties. It dosn't have to be incredibly expensive, and it makes people feel like you care.
Edited 12/7/2005 10:32 am ET by xosder11
"My boss gave me a $hitty bonus last year....becase we had some problems collecting money we were owed."
But that's part of owning a business. Sometimes the things that happen are out of your control. Doesn't always matter how hard you try.
That's part of the reason I think bonuses should be tied to profitability - So employees don't just think that the boss is raking it in and making tons of money off them. Things just aren't that simple.
Tact is the ability to describe others as they see themselves. [Abraham Lincoln]
I agree, don't get me wrong. I work at a small company and I see first hand the pressures my boss faces. It's hard for him to hide from me. I also know that he is well intentioned and generally, a good guy.I guess my only simple point was don't give someone a bonus and then immediately apologize for it. It's not good for moraleThe moral of the story is that it was obvious to me at the time that my boss was having a lot of anxiety over the whole bonus issue. And I don't think he is alone.
Edited 12/7/2005 11:33 am ET by xosder11
"I like the idea of bonuses based on the profitability of the company."curious about that coming from you. past comments lead me to think you work in a company where no matter how hard you try, the boss circiumvents your efforts and does his best to lose money.
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
Couple of things to keep in mind -The company I work for now is kind of backwards in many ways. But that doesn't mean I can't think of better situations. The last company I worked for paid profit sharing every year. I believe that made most employees think more about what made the company tick. Like people screwing around and not working, wasting materials, etc..You certainly have heard a lot of the negative things about the company I currently work for. But I think that's just human nature. When I get frustrated, I tend to vent about what I see as being wrong, not what I see as right.
Power currupts.
Absolute power corrupts absolutely.
But it ROCKS absolutely too.
I knew theere were positives too, or you wouldn't be there. I have known of a lot of lumberyards hat had profitsharing of one kind or another. Seems like your business has some similarities to that.
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
Jeezus.... leave it to some of you clowns to turn a Christmas bonus into a bad thing! LOL... I shoulda known better.
Maybe I should just call it a Christmas present instead of a "bonus". I never realized that "bonus" was such a taboo word.
Anyway... I appreciate all of the thoughts and suggestions. I think what I'm going to do is give each guy an equal cash amount in addition to a nice tool reflective of their skill level. While the Lee Valley plane sounds like a fantastic idea..... you gotta remember that we're framers! LOL. They might not even know what to do with it. To us, a planer has a cord and is used blaze PT joists down so your decking lays flat and that's about it. {G}
I'm going to keep the cash in the mix for a couple of reasons. One of my guys has his second baby on the way. Another one is trying to save for a new truck. And my newest guy/helper is young and just starting out. He lives with his brother-in-law (the guy with the baby one the way incidently) and sister and I know he's looking to get his own place soon and give them their privacy back.
No matter what, it's always nice to hear the different perspectives out there. Even the ones I really don't understand.
I'm not sure why, after reading through, I feel the need to defend myself, but I do. I'm not giving a Christmas bonus out of guilt for sorry wages. Nor am I giving a bonus because my guys expect it or I feel pressured. I'm doing it because it's Christmas and I like to give a gift to people I like and appreciate a gift. Imagine that.
I can be a prick to work for. I'm demanding and I want things done right. The guys I have are the cream that rose to the top of about 15-20 guys I've tried over the past 2 1/2 years. It's not very often that I have to put on the "boss" hat at work any more. And when I do I make a mental note cuz it usually means that someone is on the way out the door.
What I've basically found is that it's all about attitude with me. If I don't like your attitude, you're gone. That doesn't mean my guys need to kiss my azz.... it just means that if you don't want to be really good at what you do, you won't fit in with me. So I try 'em out and most are gone within a week. I'm not in the business of molding personalities... that was their mother's job. I'm in business to build houses and build a crew that works like a perfectly engineered machine and I lead by example. I still lump plywood 3 sheets at a time when the need arises. I'm the first one out of the truck in the morning and I'm the last guy left picking up scrap at the end of the day. That's why my guys both like and respect me. But you have to be able to work like it's your company and not mine, to work for me. You gotta want to own a piece of it. You gotta drink the frickin' Kool-Aid man!!!! LOL.
Seriously, I've got a good thing going on with my crew right now. Alex has been with me since day one. Elton has a little over a year with me. And the newest addition, Junior, just started but he's fitting in quite well. No one really bickers and there isn't really a pecking order. Everyone knows their job and does it well. We laugh a lot at work lately and we produce a good amount of work. When I find myself laughing at work, I know that things are running properly. We're a small little company... a family of sorts. A lot of stuff is decided by commitee and I like that. I like that I can look at Alex first thing in the morning and know that his little girl was up all night again. I like that I can look at Elton and know right off if he got laid last night. And I look forward to getting to know Junior better. It sounds funny, but it's true. And it makes work a whole lot more enjoyable for all of us if we actually like each other and are all working towards the same goal. I know from past experience that it only takes one A-hole in the crew to make the whole ship sink fast. I don't care he if he's Norm f'in Abrams.... if his attitude sucks, he out of the loop fast.
(Deep breath) So I guess what I'm saying is that I like my crew and what they do for me. Therefore... I'd like to show my appreciation to them with a token of my gratitude. Cash and a tool, it is.
:)
Diesel - sounds like you've hit it big with your crew. You're luckey, blessed, and "rich" in the ways that matter...Merry Christmas ...Buic
Let's see here..............you posted at 6:03, my guess; you more or less walked in the door, maybe let Mulligan out for a whiz and got right on to Breaktime to see what more words of wisdom we all had to offer!
Brian, you blow my mind with some of the shlt you write. Damn, you've got it going on. Those guys are lucky to have you for a boss, that's bonus enough for me!
You're doing the right thing. Green wheat baby!! Everyone loves to grow that stuff!
Ho ho ho! Gonna put a Santa suit on Brian this year![email protected]
It's Never Too Late To Become What You Might Have Been
Let's see here..............you posted at 6:03, my guess; you more or less walked in the door, maybe let Mulligan out for a whiz and got right on to Breaktime to see what more words of wisdom we all had to offer!
{G}... that's pretty much it Eric. Not a lot of mystery left to me, huh? Without question, I'm a creature of habit. If my wife is home when I come home from work she knows the drill. Pet the dog, kick off the boots, and head to the office to "decompress" for a 1/2 hour or so. That usually involves a little bit of paperwork and a healthy dose of BT. 30 minutes or so later, I'm ready to roll again. Tonight it was over to the dentist's office to get the grill shined up.
As far as the other stuff....thanks for the compliment, but I probably write better than I behave. Anything I've got going on is because of the people around me.... I'm just along for the ride baby.
Good post. Err GREAT POST. I wish I was twenty I'd move to your town and start over. It's good to be loved. Especially at work.
http://www.hay98.com/
I wish you were twenty and headed up this way too. In fact I'm betting we could put together a dream team of home builders from this forum. Bet we'd blow those "Monster House" and "Extreme Home Makeover" monkeys right out of the water too.
Wouldn't that be something?
Funny you remember the hammers.... that was over two years ago. Time flies.....
It would be a good time.
He l l who couldn't remember that kind of present. That's real class.
http://www.hay98.com/
"No matter what, it's always nice to hear the different perspectives out there. Even the ones I really don't understand."
See .. that's why yer up for freaking saint-hood! better man than I ...
that said ... I agree with Gunner ... that was a great freaking post!
yer a great guy ... no matter what U decide ... it'll be right for your guys.
They are lucky to have you as a boss.
Have a happy ...
Jeff Buck Construction
Artistry In Carpentry
Pittsburgh Pa
Hi dieselpig,
Jeff forwarded your post to me - do you have a job opening, any opening? I'm not very handy (that's why I married Jeff) but I have learned a few tricks of the trade. Oh, who am I kidding, I can't even make coffee and I hate mornings. But, I'm loyal!
I did not go through the whole post but money for Christmas - yee haw. I'm happy to be getting a cash bonus this year and my dentist will be even happier that I can now send him and his wife on their dream vacation. CASH IS KING!
Have a Merry Christmas and Happy New Year :)
Cathy Buck
I kind of feel like scrooge here now.
I give our guys a couple hundred dollars each for a christmas bonus. But they also get five or six paid holidays, a weeks paid vacation during the year, and three paid sick days.
If they weren't already getting the paid time off then absolutely a weeks pay for a bonus would be reasonable, but on top of that it seems a little expensive to me.
Are you guys that give a weeks pay bonus also giving vacation time??
One of my number one guys just bought a new truck. He has a contractors cap on order. Man I'd love to go pay for it right now, but holy crap that's a lot of money to put out.
That's alot of money to put out. But he's willing to put it out for you. No?
I'm one of the guys that gets a weeks pay as a bonus. Two weeks if we had a good year. I also get two weeks vacation and all that jazz.
http://www.hay98.com/
you must be a saint marrying Jeff, gotta ask, where you drunk or lose a bet?
"where you drunk or lose a bet?"
U gotta show up a Fest to get the real answer ...
up-side is ... U know it's going to be a good story!
Jeff Buck Construction
Artistry In Carpentry
Pittsburgh Pa
story goes something...
we were drinking, she got drunk, did loose a bet, and you had to pay her to marry you...
am I close?
me? I'm not sure how I struck the lottery, if I were my wife (that's still a little odd to say) I'd have shot me a long time ago.
side note, what's really scary, is she asks me why I put trigger locks on my pistols, like she want's to get at them for some reason??
Edited 12/12/2005 9:12 pm ET by CAGIV
well it al started on Martin Luthur King Day ...
naturally ... me and my buddy Frank were out celebrating ...
he drives me home at about 3 am ... Cath's sleeping like a normal person ....
mighta been some drinking involved ...
and ...
Hey .... Get yer a$$ to a fest to hear the rest!
btw ... so far ... every word of that is true ...
Jeff
Buck Construction
Artistry In Carpentry
Pittsburgh Pa
Hey Jeff, not much chance I'll make it to NY for the feast so at least tell me this, WTF were you celebrating on MLK day!
Just curious
Doug
something tells it could have been any day ending in "y" and that would have been enough for jeff to celebrate...
just any old excuse ;)
Hey ... it's a freaking holiday ... it counts!
plus ... what Cag said ...
but only holidays ... they're all fair game.
can't do that "any day with a Y" stuff ...
'cause then ... it's not special!
we were a festive bunch back then .....
still cracks me up though ... we were seriously out celebrating MLK Day ...
Cath knew what she was in for ....
Jeff Buck Construction
Artistry In Carpentry
Pittsburgh Pa
Hi Cathy, thanks for posting to me. Shoot, I feel honored. We don't get to see much of you around here.
Cash will always be king, huh? Everybody loves it and seems to know just what to do with it.... right or wrong.
Thanks for keeping Jeff in line for another year. I'd hire you, but I'm sure that's a full time job in and of itself.
My very best wishes to you and both of your kids, Corey and Jeff, for the holidays. :)
"both of your kids, Corey and Jeff"
we went xmas shopping for ... uh ... Corey ... this weekend. I was pissed ... ToysRus was out of the remote control car I ... uh ... Corey ... really wanted.
get he get's one when they restock after xmas ... as I hate to see a disappointed little kid?
Jeff Buck Construction
Artistry In Carpentry
Pittsburgh Pa
"You gotta drink the frickin' Kool-Aid man!!!! LOL."If I were younger, I'd be ready to drink the diesel with you!;)
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
I am late on this one. I keep it simple. I give the top guy $500 and the rest less based on time with me and value to the company. DanT
Wait a minute. Isn't it just you and your brother there?
http://www.hay98.com/
No, I hired 2 more this summer and added another truck. One has done well, I just let the other go. Didn't want to pay the bonus I guess lol. DanT
Merry Christmas, you're fired(insert Donald Trump impersonation).
Scrooge.
;-)---------------------
Swimming through the ashes of another life, no real reason to accept the way things have changed. Wrapped in guilt, sealed up tight.
Ohh. It was funnier the way I was looking at it. "He gave himself $500.00 and stiffed his brother." LOL
Really I know with a small company that it's hard to come up with the bonus money sometimes. Your a good man for making the effort.
http://www.hay98.com/
Well, thanks for saying so. When I started this I decided that I wouldn't do it if I couldn't afford the tools and equipment needed (not wanted), time for me and the families of those working for me to do the kids plays etc., a few days training or trade show a year, and a bonus when things went well. Decent year this year, everyone wins. DanT
I try to give everyone the oppurtunity but have no issue with the thinking if you aren't in the game then you aren't here. He wasn't in the game. Would give you the lip service and then not produce. But yeah, the timing wasn't great. But my nerves felt better after I did it lol. DanT
>> I'm with you. I don't discuss my pay, don't ask others theirs. What do I care what they make. <<
As far as I'm concerned, it's part of being a professional. Discussing wages is nearly always going to create hard feelings among the troops. I've worked for companies in the past by which I was told that it was grounds for dismissal.
Matt
At the company that my wife works for it is grounds for dismissal and she told me of an incident where it had happened. She has 10 managers under her and probably all making different amounts.
Nothing good can come from it.
Doug
How about just tailor the bonus to the individual? Maybe one worker would be happy with a tool or gift certificate. Maybe another worker has 3 kids at home, and that bonus could be in cash. Lord knows that when I was in my early 2O's, a wife in school and a kid at home, 50 bucks at Christmas time would have relieved a lot of stress. It may have not bought me anything, but may have enabled me to get something really special for my kid. Just a thought.Coming to you from beautiful Richmond, Va.
Here's my twist...not to be a smart-alec, but more for discussion...why give bonuses?
I've been working for 36 years in all, and don't remember a bonus in any job (ok, 14 of those years I was boss or worked alone). One company gave turkeys each year, but that's about it. Maybe it's a large company, white collar thing.
If a company a bonus of X or an additional raise of X, would they be received differently? Are bonuses expected? Why? Why not just better pay?
It's good I work alone, huh?
we get 2.5 % of gross pay for the year.
When is a Christmas bonus not a bonus?
My boss according to the other guys on the crew gives one weeks pay. But he lays off from Dec. 24 through Jan 1.
The pay it seems isn't the bonus. I'm thinking what he's really giving is a week off. No extra money to spend on the kids for Christmas but more time with them.
What do you think?
When you get both the pay and the time off at home, that sounds like a bonus situation to me.Time mat come that I do the same. I can never get anything done that week anyway, Subs don't show up. Help doewsn't show up. Materials come late...there are just enough people on the job to make me work harder figuring out "What can we do today without the..." Just barely worth try ing to work that week.
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
I might be a square peg in a round hole in this discussion BUT I have never EVER received a Christmas bonus I've been in the workforce for over 40 years and never expected a Christmas bonus . Sure sometimes turkey or a company party but money........never.
Maybe things are different up here in Canada but then again times do change and maybe it's happening here too.
Receiving a bonus seems to have been turned into a God-given right. I was project manager at a world event and I had to get contractors to do certain jobs and at the end of the event one of the contractors came to me and asked me if I was happy with the work his crew and I said I was. He then asked that I give each guy a bonus (in the thousands each). I was stunned. I muttered that they were his employees and if he thought they should have a bonus then he should do it.
I never got a bonus for that job and the contract was in the millions. I continue to shake my head at the thought of people getting and/or expecting a bonus..
roger
I have only had two Christmas bonuses I think. Of course I have been self employed for a long time. What I liked most was the small Christmas party the boss took us out with the spouses or girlfriends had a nice steak dinner in a nice resturant. The bonus was maybe $100 bucks, but it wasn't so much the money as it was the show of appreciation. For a small operation with three guys you can get pretty close I say maybe do a small equal cash gift $250-500 maybe a small party if you want, that might cost another $250-500 depends were you go and how much you drink. Then like Idaho Don said get each guy a small gift if there is some senority there maybe top guy gets a little better gift.
To me just having the boss say "hey thanks for your work" is a nice show of appreciation. In a industry where some guys are changing jobs as often as they change their boxers, it is nice to have someone who has been with a company for years and then to show that guy some appreciation.
Jeff
Hey. I had an idea while shoveling coal this morning.
What about you sit the crew down and say "You guys have been great this year, I really appreciate your contributions to our success and am trying to figure out the best way to give year end bonuses (some people don't celebrate Xmas). I'm thinking I could give each of you a certain ammount, or spend some on a party for everyone, or maybe gift certificates to a restaurant or tool store, maybe some combination of these...or I'm open for suggestions. But I'd like it to mean something to each of you. Anyone have any thoughts? How about you guys think it over, sleep on it, talk it over wityh the missus, and we'll talk again tomorrow."
Maybe there's one person on the crew who would rather have the cash than go out to eat with everyone (maybe s/he just broke up with his/her partner or lost a loved one, or is planning to be out of town or something). If that were the case, maybe that crew member would get their portion of the pie in cash, instead of a meal.
For a small crew it wouldn't be that hard to figure out. And if somebody doesn't like what they recieved, they can look in the mirror instead of grumbling.
I've never worked for someone who gives bonuses, but a developer/excivator friend of mine (who has about 15 employees) gives both a party and bonus. We were just talking about this the other night and he mentioned he's not doing the party this year. He said in the past he's felt like the guys have just sat there waiting for the bonus (which he gave out after the party) and didn't really seem interested in having a good time with the guys you work with. I myself enjoy the comradere of a group of workers, and don't understand how anyone could work with a group he doesn't like or share some type of interest.
Personally, I'd rather get a raise that shows how much you appreciate me busting my rear and leave the bonus to a party or small gift. I have worked for some guys who did not appreciate my work/skills and no bonus, no matter how big, would offset that. In June when your guys are working hard, they won't think back to that bonus last year, they'll think about the fact that they don't feel compensated for their work. I also agree that if you prefer giving bonuses, it should be after a job well done so that your guys feel like they earned it and will continue to strive for better performance.
Jim W.
Coventry Woodworking
Just stumbled on this thread and haven't read it all..I think the best bonuses are combo-bonuses: Cash, merchandise, party.
By merchandise, I mean like someone said they got real nice jacket. Not just a $5 T-shirt, but a NICE jacket (with logo) that they could actually get a lot of good use out of (and you're getting free advertisement from your own crew). Does your crew like Carhart's? So get someone to put logos on some Carharts (or some such... not a cheapie jacket, a decent one). I would NOT make the jacket the entire bonus.
Combo bonus, for instace: week's pay, nice jacket, and a party with spouses.
jt8
"The cynic is one who knows the price of everything and the value of nothing." --Oscar Wilde
That's exactly what my boss does. Old boss gave us cash. I like the current one better. It ends up being more than just; "here's your money, see you in the morning."
That's exactly what my boss does. Old boss gave us cash. I like the current one better. It ends up being more than just; "here's your money, see you in the morning."
And with the combo gift, they can give me less total cash value and I'm happier than if I'd just gotten a check. Not saying I'm a logical person ;)
jt8
"The cynic is one who knows the price of everything and the value of nothing." --Oscar Wilde
And if we're going to spend the money on a tool(s) anyway...
Your talking to the guy that gave all the guys in his wedding party engraved Douglas framing hammers. He don't go cheap.
http://www.hay98.com/
I dunno if this will help;
DWs boss throws a Christmas party every year. Used to be a sit down dinner and free bar set up. Now they go to a show like vaudville, or the Dixie Stampede where dinner comes with that . Spouses are included but no kids unless you leave spouse at home . One year we went to an exclusive wine village restuarant with entertainment. Sine DW runs the comapny I know the cost. . 50.00 per person. They normally have a white elephant exchange where everyone gets somthing embarrashing or goofy and everyone laughs. Again free bar and I dont know what the tab is there.
During the dinner or right after he gives out production bonuses to every one . Normally he gives 1,000 apiece if they have been there a year. If they havent DW calulates 1000 divided by 12 and multiplies the months employment. Thats their check amount. This year is 800.00and so the same. That is 20 percent of the profit of the highest month, not the year.
Im not suggesting you give that much , just what they do. Oh yea, I get all the cold beer I want . <G>
He also throws a company pic nic and supplies a couple of kegs and 4 big coolers of drinks including wine coolers . He has the meal catered and they play bingo . Prizes come from vendors . If they dont send the prizes business sucks to them for the next year.
Tim
I guess DW could have typed this but she just explained it since several have said why give one at all and its disagreed with to give a production bonus at Christmas.
I asked her if she hadnt already had it in place and had a chance to start new , would she do it ?
Definately!
Why?
Employees that stay over a year know lots of things new ones dont . They know the drill. New hires ask stupid questions that take up management time basically. That upsets production time if they are in link. It can upset a full crews time. One they learn whats expected they simply perform, so a seasoned employee is worth much more than a new hire of the same caliber. Profit statements ran by departments in given time periods proove it . Really all you are working on as management is bottom line and proven people hit winners.
The next object is how do you keep employees that make money? Theres only so much you can do in a nice work invirement . They are their to take money home also. You can share it equally in portion and it sets up team work. Team work hits winners too because they become indulgent by extra reward to improove their bottom line .
Everyone needs incentives to improove.
The only way to effectively answer the question is to keep records. Her records reflect it. Long term employees working together as a big family has been the goal setting.
From me ; Losts of times people havent quit in October for if they do they lose the bonus . So they get over being mad and often forget what they got mad about . Benifits can entice an employee to stay with a job that would other wize tell us to shove it. How many times have you heard they are working for health care . Thats a benifit and so is profit sharing , plus Christmas bonus.
Tim
The last company I worked for had the best bonus program I've ever heard of. In fact, now that I'm on my own, I miss that bonus every Christmas.
They had about 15 employees. Each employee got a profit sharing bonus which is pretty standard. But, they also offered a $400.00 safety bonus that had to be used to purchase tools. I was with this company for 2 years and the last year I walked out of the Christmas party with about $1500.00.
Bought a Rigid portable table saw.
if the money has to be used to purchase tools, it is not a bonus and not related to safety. It is a tool allowance! Good and proper top do in it's own right, but totally out of place to call it any kind of a 'bonus'
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
dieselpig,
I usually just take their annual gross salary that they have earned for the year and add 3% for their Christmas bonus. (Nice gesture on your part.)
Tom
Working for nothing is not getting any cheaper.
Tom
Seems like you run a good operation.
How much snow do you guys get in Montana? Looking for any guys? I might be interested in moving back west(half joking). ;-)---------------------
Swimming through the ashes of another life, no real reason to accept the way things have changed. Wrapped in guilt, sealed up tight.
The operation looks good on paper. The reality is: if the food stamps do not arrive soon the neighbor’s cat may go hungry this x-mas. (Just kidding)
<!----><!----> <!---->
The only way to keep the guys coming to work is to offer the x-mas carrot (3%)
<!----> <!---->Lots of snow I am originally from pa. So I am use to the challenging weather conditionsWorking for nothing is not getting any cheaper.