Replies

1. 
   Sphere | Feb 26, 2006 08:19pm | #1

   Buy a newer saw for one thing, some do go past 45. If not add a shim on one side of the base to tilt it more. Anything much over 55 degrees tho and you wont cut through a 2by with out finishing with a hand saw.

   Spheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks

    

2. 
   dieselpig | Feb 26, 2006 08:56pm | #2

   All these formulas are too complicated for me.

   Get off the pity pot.  With that defeatist attitude you will quickly prove yourself to be correct.  Stop trying to memorize formulas and try to begin to learn how roofs go together.  Learn the "whys" and stop trying to memorize the "hows".

   Try starting with the basics if you don't already have a good working knowledge.  Maybe a book out of the Fine Homebuilding library or the JLC library?  Then move on up to something like Will Holladay's "A Roof Cutter's Secrets".  Pick up a copy of the "Roof Framer's Bible" and thumb through the tables and read the intoductory information at the beginning of the book.  Marshall Gross also has a book on advanced roof cutting, but it's title is escaping me at the moment.

   And the best advice I can give you is to ask direct questions to the specific roof framing problem that you don't understand.  "It's too hard" isn't going to get you very far around here or on the jobsite.

   A can't speak of the videos you mentioned, because I haven't seen them, but they may very well help you out.  Can't hurt to try them.

   A good deal of the newer model circular saws available will bevel to 50 degrees and a few even go up to 55 degrees.  Beyond that, you can invest in a saw with a swing table but it's really not a tool that most people will use or need.   If you frame roofs all the time, they can certainly speed things up and make life a bit easier, but I can't say they're a necessary tool.  I now own a saw with a 75 degree swing table, but before that I've cut steep bevels with everything from a chainsaw to a handsaw to a recip saw, to a shimmed circular saw.

   Here is a link to a current thread cover the beveling of sleeper valley.

   http://forums.taunton.com/n/mb/message.asp?webtag=tp-breaktime&msg=70151.3

   View Image
3. 
   Tomrocks21212 | Feb 26, 2006 09:55pm | #3

   When I used to frame roofs and had that problem, I'd cut the complementary angle (90 degrees minus your desired angle) on the rafter.
   Say you need to cut a 60 degree bevel. Make the mark on what will be the long side of the cut. That mark will be the SHORT side of your first cut, at a saw setting of 30 degrees. Then make your second cut (saw set at 90), the saw resting on the freshly cut end grain. You will achieve your required angle.
   It's harder to describe than it is to do it, but it works well. The only problem is that you will often have to us a recip saw to finish the cut, since your standard saws don't have sufficient blade depth for the really steep angle cuts.

1. 
   howhighlites | Feb 26, 2006 11:59pm | #4

   Pretty amazing, I was going to suggest the same technique until I read your post.

   Gets me to thinking...over the years have guys been taught these tricks and skills?

   Or in this case, if you've done it long enough does it become automatic problem solving.

   I don't remember being taught that trick, I remember thinking of it on my owe.

   Howie

1. 
   segundo | Feb 27, 2006 01:15am | #5

   you should get the royalties then! i would back cut it myself, in other words i would cut the board to length, and mark from the long point the desired angle, 47 or 53 degrees, and then without changing the bevel of the foot at all just cut with the saw straight down being careful to start the blade on the line and after blade takes line awaycarefully going straight down with saw. notice i say straight down, this technique should be performed on the ground bent over like a real framer, not cut flat on sawhorses like a farmer.

1. 
   howhighlites | Feb 27, 2006 06:15am | #6

   I have done that!

   Keeps you from having to reset the bevel.

   But it's for guys who can control the saw right, I don't show that to the new guys. They have a hard enough time following a straight line on a flat board.

   Howie

4. 
   robert | Feb 27, 2006 06:29am | #7

   Craig,

       First of all, it's time to go saw shopping.

       Second, remember that guy in school who failed Algebra because he could get the RIGHT ANSWER EVERY TIME but could never show the teacher how he got it? I'm him.

       There are a ton of guys here who can rattle off all sorts of formulas with which to figure out all sorts of stuff. I on the other hand can frame all of the same stuff but don't ask me to explain it to you. You might be the same way.

       If that's the case, you're a Fisher Price kinnda guy. I used to work for an old German guy who  would lay things out on Plywood or with stringlines and blocks the first few times until he was sure of his math and the theory behind it. He called it the Fisher Price Method.

    Anyway, focus on the basics. Instead of worrying about complicated formulas, work on remembering the basics like how many degrees in a right angle or how many degrees in a right triangle. Remember that A2 + B2 = C2. And remember that the long side of a right triangle is the hippopotamus.

     Those basics will do far more for you because if you understand the basics you can always find the answer.  I'm a visual kind of guy and no matter how sure I am of something, I always lay it out on a piece of plywood or with a block and stringline first.  

    Don't ask me what a big scary African "Water horse" and the long side of triangle have in common. I haven't a clue.

1. 
   Piffin | Feb 28, 2006 08:51pm | #11

   LOL, I'm bit the same way. I can cut a roof and hand it up to the guys to nail in place, but I never respond to thesse specifics much because I can't explain it in words. I think that big african water horse sat on my head when I was born so the explanations get squishy 

    

   Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!

5. 
   blue_eyed_devil | Feb 28, 2006 06:46am | #8

   If you need 53 degrees, tip the saw 8 degrees more than the 45 that your saw offers.

   Oh, wait, you probably can't do that because your extended table is in the way.

   You better get a handsaw.

   blue

    

1. 
   Craigabooey | Feb 28, 2006 08:25pm | #9

   Ha Ha

1. 
   JoeBartok | Feb 28, 2006 08:42pm | #10

   Here is how to Develop the Blade Bevel on the Stick. My definition of the terms "miter" and "bevel" for the angles on the faces of the work doesn't conform to their usage by most carpenters, but you can disregard the names and just follow the geometry. (Well, I had give the angles on the adjacent faces some kind of a handle).

   Or you can use this Blade Bevel Calculator. The formulas are given further down the page. I'm not familiar with CM calculators but maybe someone else can translate the formulas so they can be used for on-site calcs.

   Nuts! I just re-read your post and realized these calculators won't help you much since they're for compound angles. What kind of a Valley board being ripped? Is this a sleeper? Or are two cuts being made to produce a trough line?

   Joe Bartok

   Edited 2/28/2006 12:46 pm ET by JoeBartok

   Edited 2/28/2006 12:48 pm ET by JoeBartok

2. 
   Piffin | Feb 28, 2006 08:55pm | #12

   To increase the bevel setting of the saw, I use a shim strip taped to the shoe of the saw. You have to experiment to get the right size and placement, and you need two saws so you can keep the one set up or it is a waste of time, might as well use a handsaw then.For the angle of cut to a hip or valley when both sides are the same, hold the framing square at ( supposing the roof pitch is 6/12) 6/17 instead of 6/12 

    

   Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!