My co-worker and I had a little discussion. We both have company trucks, and the owner of the company likes to see them clean. The owner is of the opinion that cleaning/organizing the trucks is part and parcel of the privilege of getting wheels. In other words – do it on our time.
We don’t see it that way. Consequence is: trucks rarely get clean, the owner mentions that they look bad, we all do a little dance and carry on with dirty trucks. Thankfully it only comes up every so often.
I spend 30 minutes a week keeping the truck from becoming unbearable. That’s 25 hours a year, donated by yours truly. My boss suggests “a couple hours each Saturday.” Pardon? That’s 100 hours a year.
I fully understand that company vehicles are bigtime expenses for the company, and I feel like it represents bigtime compensation for me! 😀 It sure makes me happier with my humble hourly wage. . . But I’m not about to make a hobby out of cleaning the truck.
Am I off base?
Edited 3/18/2009 7:20 pm ET by Biff_Loman
Replies
yup....
i got the same problem...
we have two company trucks and one company car
i wish the guys wold keep the trucks as nice as my wife keeps the car
but then , i drive one of the trucks.... so i guess cleanliness begins at home
come Spring ... I'm gonna clean it up and then tell Roy .... " see... if I can do it , you can do it"
Well - exactly. It's tough.
Let me say this. I manage many millions of dollars worth of someone's personal properties. I/they don't expect detail clean all the time. It's totally unrealistic.
Lets move forward just a bit... I'm suppling you with a major perc. Yes my name is on the side or the door. You are driving my truck and presenting yourself as a valued member of my company. If you're so short sighted (include your co-worker in this) as to EXPECT a company owned truck that you drive at will to be cleaned on my time you're sadly mistaken. I'd kick your #### to the curb so fast, you would not have time to look for the roll. I for one would not care what you brought to the table.
Let me add I'm #### U ME ing that you take said truck home.
Odd family edit? You're kidding.
Whatever
Don't hold back. Tell me how you really feel about it. ;-)
I'm well known for not pulling back. This way, no one has any chance of really thinking about what I said or meant. Saves me a lot of BS for those to stupid to figure it out on their own. If you don't like it there's the door.
The benefit is I pay the bill and never nickle and dime. Great work for great pay. What more could you really ask for?
I hope you don't bring home huge bonuses or drive a Enzo...nowadays this will get you into trouble, you big rich business man. In all seriousness if your boss ask you to clean the truck every week, clean the TRUCK! Cause the Chinese laborer making .70 per hour does so without asking. stinky
Any time I had a company vehical I cleaned it regularly and on my time. I expected my guys to do the same if they drove the truck back and forth to work. If you left it at the shop I would find time for you to clean it. I was always a clean truck person both personally and of what I expected of my help.
I stated it clearly from the start and if you didn't do so I would simply offer you a dollar an hour more and you could then provide your own truck and I will pay for gas. It will need to be kept clean of course if it will carry my company sign.
Off base? I guess since you gushed over what a big time perk it is but are unwilling to do anything but the minimum for it I would say yes. But I see this all the time at my new job. We get a hot lunch daily for $1 a day. Good some days, ok some days, great occasionally. Amazing to me how many people complain about it. I guess after reading this I think you would be one of the complainers. DanT
Uh oh. Here comes the regret from even bringing this up.I'm completely willing to admit that I'm off base on this.Edit: *That's why I asked.*
Edited 3/18/2009 7:52 pm ET by Biff_Loman
Ohh boy!!!! Way to go! Get everybodies already tight undies in an even tighter bundle!!!
What do you mean by cleaning the vehicle? Going and washing and waxing it? Organize all the tools and such?
Either case, COMPANY TIME!!!! Its a cost of doing business. At the end of each day, take the time to put the tools away where they belong. Employees get paid ( are still on the clock) to put tools away on a job site, why should it be any different to put tools away in the truck. I know that often at the end of a day things will just get tossed in the back. So at the end of each week spend some time oragnizing.
As far as washing the truck. It got dirty doing company business, why shouldnt it be cleaned on company time?
That being said, I just got done spending 1 1/2 hours organizing my truck off the clock. I couldnt tell you the last time that I washed it, but it doesnt look to dirty.Live by the sword, die by the sword....choose your sword wisely.
Let's all just get more excited about this.
What about vehicle maintance? Whats the agreement/ understanding with that? Are you supposed to take it in for the scheduled maintance on your own time? Who pays for it?Live by the sword, die by the sword....choose your sword wisely.
As far as washing the truck. It got dirty doing company business, why shouldnt it be cleaned on company time?
you are right if... you drive your car to work... get in a company truck and go to work... return the truck to company yard... and go home in your own car...
BUT if the company has been cool enough to let you have pretty much free use of the truck even when you are not working out of it... then Take care of it like it was your own... and wash it if you are so asked... that or PAY the compay for every non work related mile you put on the truck... that would be fair right?
P
I'm completely crying 'uncle' at this point, btw.
I dunno.
I think it has to do with your pride in your workmanship.
Washing your truck should be a weekend stress-relieving activity. Oh, and can you please hose off the driveway while you are at it?
IF... the boss had said from the very first day... If you drive the trucks home... you keep them clean... then it would never be an issue... just a rule that IS... but since you have a cool boss who just asks every once and a while that you wash HIS truck that YOU drive... you ignor him... which is cool... maybe next time he will make you keep a log in the truck of every mile you drive and every stop you make and just back charge you for every personal stop you make or for the time you sit in a drive thru food window... dude it ain't that hard to play nice
(put'n tools back in place shouldn't even have to be told... that is a given... you took em out of their place you put em back)
you can wash the outside of most trucks in about 15min... with a wash mop i can knock the dirt off my F350 and hose it off in about 10 min... they seem to drive better when clean...
just my 2cents....
p
When I worked Midnights for AirCanada, I found a "Ground Power unit" (electrical generator for airplanes) that was on a diesel flat bed. This truck was a POS. I cleaned it and had it repaired by the ground crew to have it driveable.
I then cleaned the cab and had added some stuff (radio/etc) to make it fun to drive all night. Became very proud of that truck.
When I left midnights It became "THE" truck to have on the shift.
I hope that I created a small sense of pride in a very big company.
Take that last sentence to heart.
Edited 3/18/2009 9:31 pm ET by jet
I think it comes down to pride, pride in your workmanship, pride in your company and the face you put out to the public. Many of the businesses around here wash the trucks everyday. It doesn't take more than 10-15 minutes a couple of times a week to keep things clean and organized. Being given a company truck is quite a vote of confidence. Most employers don't expect you to go to the extreme, just show respect, a commitment to maintaining a professional appearance and taking care of the equipment that you have been entrusted with. If an employee told me I don't pay him for cleaning the truck on his own time, he'd be looking for another job, just because of the attitude. If that's all the job means to them, see ya later.
Beat it to fit / Paint it to match
I worked for a place with a similar problem. It was back at the HVAC supply house. They liked to have new equipment meeting after work. Everyone was "expected" to show up for no pay.
When I complained, the other guys looked at me like I was crazy?!
I guess you get used to being pushed around. When I drove truck, I kept my truck clean sometimes on their time and sometimes on mine. It was a pride thing for me, plus I hated driving a truck with debris floating around the cab.
Family.....They're always there when they need you.
So if you spend an hour a week keeping the truck clean, that is about an extra 11 minutes of paid lunch every day.
Just another way of equalizing the situation.
Boss is happy and you look good.
You're welcome.
:)
That truck benefit is worth about $10k. The boss could make you drive your own (or find someone that will)... or make you show up early to the shop and get his (or find someone that will).
Well, the whole issue is about time, not compensation. Today, I got an extra 90 minutes of work dumped on me at quitting time. That's not too unusual. I never complain. I just do it. I'm always late for social things, always upsetting the wife because I don't think twice about going the extra mile. I don't leave things half done, I don't leave sites messy or unsecured, and I still aim for a day's output in combination with our general housecleaning. I take five minute breaks and ten minute lunches on a regular basis to try and stay on the ball and *always* work 30-45 minutes past quitting time because *we are BUSY.*Noon is quitting time on Saturday, but I'm usually leaving at 3:00 because I hate setting up and packing out for a mere four hours of production.I DO NOT care about getting paid for washing the truck. That's pathetic. I DO CARE about having the TIME TO EVER DO IT.
I guess we all make choices in life. Some will live with there decisions and some will complain about them. Last week one of my crew had the balls to get sick and take the night off on the same night the other guys had off. So, I work 2 shifts that day and 12 hours the next day. I am salary. No OT. Just part of the deal. DanT
And yet did I complain? Or ask a question? That was my intent - to come on here and inquire as to WHETHER I was wrong in this point.Looks like I was. Way wrong, by the sound of it. It seems that the consensus is that just by inquiring, I'm automatically an ungrateful slacker and a whiner. Or that I feel entitled. And that I'm not proud of my company, or that the truck never gets cleaned, which isn't actually the case.Yeah, my tone was a little off in my original post, so maybe I sounded spoiled.
Do you get paid OT for work over 40 hours?
Jon Blakemore RappahannockINC.com Fredericksburg, VA
I get paid for every hour, but not an overtime rate for overtime hours.i.e., not salariedEdited 3/19/2009 10:15 pm ET by Biff_Loman
Edited 3/19/2009 10:15 pm ET by Biff_Loman
And I come all tooled up, which wasn't part of the deal when I was hired. Understanding was that I'd show up with a tool-belt and a hammer. Instead, I've loaded up my F-150 with everything I can fit on it, including everything from my Makita li-ion combo to my own ladders, etc. Am I wearing out all my tools without compensation for it? Yes. Do I care? No. For me, it's part of the job.I can't believe I've made myself sound like such an azzhole. It's not as if the trucks NEVER EVER get cleaned - just not as often as they should. And maybe I am a slob and have bad habits, but I don't wash my own car all that often either.Edit: And I'll add one more thing: I do NOT use the truck for personal use. It goes to the site, to my driveway, and stays there. That's the deal. It is NOT another vehicle for us, unless I specifically ask permission for each use.
Edited 3/19/2009 10:39 pm ET by Biff_Loman
LOL...I think you've been beaten with a stick enough. I think you've humbled yourself and admitted that you were wrong enough. You can put your shirt back on...no more lashes needed.
But...I think you need to resolve those simmering feelings you have. They will lead you down the wrong path. You'll soon start hating your job instead of joyfully reveling in it. You have to figure out what will make you happy, then follow that trail.
First, I'd stop working extra without pay. Then, don't stay till 3 on saturdays. It sounds like you are burning yourself out.
You ungratefull slacker! How dare you complain about having to clean your employers billboard parked in your driveway!
Based on what you just said, I'm going against what everyone else here is saying. Company time to maintain company equipment.
Here is my wildly outlandish suggestion not based in any sort of reality: Make the truck wash part of the weekly work schedual. Tell the boss that you've heard his desire that the company billboards should look spiffy, and that you're committed to doing that. From now on, every Tuesday or Friday (or both) at lunch time, you will take the vehical over to the nearest wash for a cleaning. If you're already only eating for 5 minutes, you can do that in the cab while in line.
I work part time myself. Thanks to previous experience, what I bring to the job is like bringing a Bosch Bulldog to drill a single 3/16" hole in block. Just to make things easier, I use my own personal computer gear for setting up shows I run, but I only run shows on the company equipment. If for some reason, the company gear didn't show or didn't work and I had to run the show on my own equipment - I have a standing agreement that I will rent them my personal computer for each day I have to use it on site ($400 per day standard rate). You give alot to the company, including tools that you have that will help you do your job better. Just make sure you've got clear lines and boundries for everything.
Tu stultus esRebuilding my home in Cypress, CAAlso a CRX fanatic!
Look, just send me to my drawer. This whole talking-to-you thing is like double punishment.
I think this topic has been well addressed already and you certainly have taken some pretty good hits just for asking the question, but I would like to point something out.
In your first post you wrote:
I fully understand that company vehicles are bigtime expenses for the company, and I feel like it represents bigtime compensation for me!
And then in your most recent post you wrote:
I do NOT use the truck for personal use. It goes to the site, to my driveway, and stays there. That's the deal. It is NOT another vehicle for us...
I think you've got to understand that a lot of the responses were based on 2 different assumptions: either 1) It's a benefit that comes with responsibilities or 2) It's a responsibility with no benefit. You may have gotten different responses if you had made it more clear in your first post the circumstances under which you drive a company vehicle home.
1. Cut down on the extra work.
2. Keep the wife happy. No more missing family events.
A long time ago, a guy I worked with put in 10 hour days, came in in Sat, did a lot of extra work. Come review time, he got a good review, but no raise. When he asked about it, all the extra time he was putting in.
The boss said, " I thought thats what it took for you to get your job done".
I was gonna avoid this conversation but.............
Let me start with the Truck. It, and you represent the company that pays you.
Once a week, driving thru the self serve car wash and drthrowing out the garbage and dropping $2 in quarters never killed anyone.............and will probably keep the boss happy.
I'd be more concerned about the tools. You are using all of your own tools? Ladders and everything?
So you're wearing out your own stuff to make a paycheck?
Having been both an employee and an employer...............let me spare you the lesson I learned the hard way.
Those tools that you are wearing out? The ones your employer doesn't have to buy because you provide them? You do know that money is going in his pocket, right?
It's reasonable to expect a carpenter to come with his own tools, to some extent. Hand tools and small power tools maybe................compressors, ladders beyond maybe a 6' step ladder, big tools, EXPENSIVE tools?
Those are a BUSINESS expense and the boos needs to cover those.
I've been down that road too.
If you are "not salaried" then that means you get OT pay after 40/80 depending on if you get paid weekly/biweekly.
If you get paid hourly, and you do not receive OT, then you are being paid improperly, and are legally due back wages.
I don't understand the issue, then.
You dedicate all kinds of extra time to the job and provide all kinds of extra tools... both situations appear to be done for free on your part much of the time as indicated later in this thread.
Just get a wash broom hose attachment, and it will take very little time to wash the truck.
Or, find a local pressure wash car wash facility, spend $5 and about 7 minutes and be done with it.
I have dedicated myself to a job/employer as you have. Stay late, work extra, bring in tools, bring in a truck... In the end, the layoff still came, no matter what I have done above and beyond the call of duty.
The definition of insanity is repating the same actions and expecting different results.
I will give and take, but once my "give" is dwarfed by their "take", that's it. I will no longer be insane.
You should stop upsetting the wifey.
I did not real all the post . here mine, I work work concrete mud, dirt. I get nasty. Here what boss say. keep your truck clean or you get the worn out POS truck without a/c. so it not detail but kept clean minutes a day. dump the garabe, sweep the floor mat, run it through the car wash while filling up with gas. minutes per week. But it has AC
Any "tool" (includes trucks) lent to you I would expect to be looked after. I for sure would not expect it to be "dumped" on till it could not be used.
I keep my van clean and tidy. I find stuff with ease, customers relax because it shows I care about my stuff and so they feel I will respect their things.
My neat work van has got me work because of how my van is kept. If you keep it that way when your working with it then you won't be using any part of your own time to clean it!
Dollar fifty with a fill up. You Canadians have car washes don't you?
America's Hat.
Or tell your boss to make enough for the yard ape to wash them. Left a kid a job.
I am not a tradesman but my father was, he had a company truck that he brought home. And it was my job to wash that truck each weekend, my dad said it was a trade off for the privialge to drive it home. I do remember hoping in dads truck to go pick up the pizza or run to the store to get something that woun't fit in mom's car.
Now I know you guys complaining about washing the truck always park the truck in the driveway and have never driven it one inch for personal use!!
Across the street from our house the cable company has a powerwash guy come in and wash the trucks once a week, they don't go home with the employees. That's and option.
"You Canadians have car washes don't you?"
Um, actually we don't. We usually just rub against the side of a moose on the way home to keep the mud down.
You are a part owner in the company in a way if you make your company look like dirt you look like dirt. Failure to maintain your vehicle,
which is a major perk shows how much you just don't care.
This translates to the customer and keeps your wages measley. There is a virtuous circle.. Why should your boss care about your wages any more than you care about him and your shared success?
I doubt washing and organizing your rig would take 100 hours a year but you would be spending at least that much or more to buy and maintain your own truck.
why not organize it and keep it that way as you load up at the end of the day instead of just throwing it back in the truck.......
in the long run it will be easier to work out of the truck not to mention the time saved finding something and what ever you have in the the truck will be better cared for....
think of it as a small return for the use of the truck...
it's the wear and tear, gas usage, mileage, maintenance, insurance and depreciation that isn't happening with yur POV....
100 hours a year if yur a real slob...
Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming<!----><!----><!---->
WOW!!! What a Ride!
Forget the primal scream, just ROAR!!!
"Some days it's just not worth chewing through the restraints"
Biff,
I might have you confused with someone else-- and If I do , I apologize-----
but--- don't I remember that you used to have a small handyman type business?- didn't you take THIS job, because it was steady---and gave you the opportunity to learn and improve your skills?
weren't you interested in owning your own business AGAIN someday-only bigger,better,more profitable?
so-- aren't you faced with a learning opportunity here???----
first recall that there are at least 50 guys here on breaktime that would happily trade places with you right now--steady work AND a company truck in exchange for washing it?????
second---- thinking "what's the least I can do and get by in life"--is no way to achieve your goals.
consider that your boss--owns YOUR truck, your Co-Workers truck--and presumably HIS truck as well??? AND he owns the business-sells the jobs-- puts food on all those tables????
which attitude accomplishes those things??????yours-- or HIS??
Attention to detail!
stephen
I had a weak moment when I posted this. Ornery mood. The day after, I'm good 'n' ashamed.Edit: Well, a little ashamed.
Edited 3/19/2009 10:05 pm ET by Biff_Loman
Biff,
You are not wrong!!!!!
You asked a question about whether you should be on the clock or off the clock for cleaning the company vehicle. Nothing more, nothing less. You didn't say anything about how clean you like a vehicle, how you use the vehicle, etc.
I stand by my earlier post that the company pays for cleaning the vehicle. Its just a cost of doing business. It is part of it's maintenance. While the employee is at it cleaning the company vehicle on their own dime, why not change the oil, maybe replace the brake pads, do the rest of the vehicle maintenance on their own dime.
If cleaning the vehicle is such a small unconvenience to the employee, why can't the company then pay for the time it takes to clean it??? It goes both ways.
I also don't get the notion that its some great perk to have a company vehicle? What are the great perks? Maybe I'm making some assumptions but, its a company vehicle, to be used for company use and company business. Its not for joy riding on the town on the weekends. If I, or the company, is paying for a vehicle for an employee, it better be of some benefit for the company. I'm not giving it to you because I like you, or your a nice guy, I'm letting you use it because it benefits me some how.
Once again, your fine in your thinking. I disagree with just about everyone else's view. Id like to know how my viewpoint is off base.
Live by the sword, die by the sword....choose your sword wisely.
Just my 2 cents, but I'd be willing to bet that all the nay sayers, "Don't wash the truck on your dime or time" are the worker bee's and NOT the owner bosses and always will be the worker bees. If one really thinks about it, the truck perk far outweighs using your own vehicle to and from work, it might even save a family from having to own 2 vehicles.
Pelipeth,
You would have lost that bet if you took it.
A lot of people keep talking about the perks of the truck. We dont know what the agreement is with Biff having the truck so there may or may not be perks. What are the perks?
Dont even know what type of truck. It could be a nice crew cab or a 24ft long bread truck with only one seat that has #### for heat in winter.Live by the sword, die by the sword....choose your sword wisely.
He's already said its a Ford 150
Maybe it's just me, BUT, the boss may OWN the truck, but he's given it to me, and I use the same truck everyday. That makes it mine. I take care of everything I have. Personal pride etc., and I don't go to the job dirty either, showered and shaved.........Can't believe the amount of ink this post is getting.
Yeah, I really hit a nerve here.
I think everyone should post a picture of the vehicle they use for work.
Preferably before they go thru the car wash !
Then we'll see who walking or talkin'
I live a half mile down a dirt road and it's mud season in Maine so mine's not shiny now.
View Image
Mine looks like yours... and I live on paved street but often work up miles of gravel/dirt roads. Everyday , day in and day out. Never have taken to washing vehicles. Do it once a year , need it or not.
They can't get your Goat if you don't tell them where it is hidden.
After our dirt road hardens up -- in a month and a half ( maybe ) I'll take mine thru the self spray wash. No way could I use the drive thru like cars use.
ahem,ahem---is that a fiberglass ladder I see there Walter?
LOL I gotta post a picture of mine- i have been meaning to for a year since I got the new one and got just the right lettering on it.
Stephen
Yup,
I've good a bunch of fiberglas , alum , not many wooden ones and just one from bamboo .
Walter, could we see the bamboo ladder, please?
I'll take some pictures for you in the morning.
Ahem
ain't that Dino on the far right - green shorts???
glad he took a hiatius on the speedo...
Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming<!----><!----><!---->
WOW!!! What a Ride!
Forget the primal scream, just ROAR!!!
"Some days it's just not worth chewing through the restraints"
I didn't really want to ask their names...
I can't belive he is complaining about washing a company.Vehicale and not getting paid for it. My company provides trucks for my job foreman. They are expected to keep it clean. How do you figure you're not getting paid for it cost my company approx $5,000.00 per year to provide employes.With a vehicle.
How do you figure you're not getting paid for it cost my company approx $5,000.00 per year to provide employes.With a vehicle>>>>>>>>>>
Ok, I have read enough. If you are using a company vehicle on company business, that is not provising a vehicle for his pleasure, IT IS TO DO YOUR WORK!!!!
No one should be expected to do company business ie. washing a company vehicle, without being paid for it!
You guys are a bunch if cheapskates. The vehicle is for company benifit. He would not expect to use his own behicle with out pay, why are you suggesting he was a company vehicle on his time!!!!
The vehicle is for company benifit. He would not expect to use his own behicle with out pay, why are you suggesting he was a company vehicle on his time!!!!
If I was supplying the vehichle and the employee wouldn't keep it clean, I'd fire the employee and find someone who would.
Be careful about what you wish for.
It's not being cheap, it's just exercising common sense.
Your idea that the employee should leave the job early to go wash a truck is just petty. If the employee can't find a few minutes each week to wash the truck, then I don't need him.
That's just me though. I'm sure if you were supplying a truck, you wouldn't mind adding a few thousand dollars per year onto your back to carry the guys when they take off an hour early every week. You probably would'nt mind if they come in an hour late because they had to stop for donuts too.
Regarding that "leave work an hour early".
Yes, it would become an hour. At first, the employee would only need 15 minute but those types of employees would quickly up the ante and be leaving an hour early. I'm sure they would have to take a half day off sometimes too to wash the windows and detail the truck.
Yes, it would become an hour. At first, the employee would only need 15 minute but those types of employees would quickly up the ante and be leaving an hour early. I'm sure they would have to take a half day off sometimes too to wash the windows and detail the truck.>>
Still a company truck. If you want it clean, make provisions for it on your dime. An employee should not be expected to pay to take care of company tools.
If I was supplying the vehichle and the employee wouldn't keep it clean, I'd fire the employee and find someone who would.>>>>>>>>>>
Jim, didn't say that. I said if expected to clean, it should be on company time as it is company property.
If the employee can't find a few minutes each week to wash the truck, then I don't need >>>>>>>>>>>
No problem, I would stop at the local car was on the way to work, after I staarted the clock!
You probably would'nt mind if they come in an hour late because they had to stop for donuts too.>>>>>>>>>>>..
Now that is just silly thar!>G<
Jim, didn't say that. I said if expected to clean, it should be on company time as it is company property
If I have to tell you the employee that I expect it to be clean, he's not my kind of employee.
Actually frammer, if I have to tell an employee that is driving his OWN vehichle to clean it, he's not my kind of employee. I really get tired of seeing the guys drive up in sloppy dirty junk. I don't detail my truck every day, but I do notice when it's starting to look sloppy. Staying organized and clean presents an image that should be "expected" of everyone.
You are within your rights to demand payment for every minute you put forth toward the companies efforts. I've been an employee before and felt the same way. Of course, I was "ready to walk" when I made demands like that. I'm on the other side of the coin now and I quickly get resentful when an employee or sub gets demanding. I worked two guys for a couple months and things were going fine...not perfect. When they presented me with gas receipts and decided that the travel was too great, it just irked me. I don't use them anymore. The "demand" was the "straw that broke the camel's back". I could easily see the same thing happening if an employee asked for time re-imbursement to clean the truck that he dirtied.
guys for a couple months and things were going fine...not perfect. When they presented me with gas receipts and decided that the travel was too great, it just irked me>>>>>>>>
PRObably something you should have addressed when hiring them.
Here is how my old boss used to handle. You were paid for time when traveling between jobs, enough there to cover my expenses.
I am just saying, if a company vehicle is dirty, it is up to the company to wash or pay an employee to do so.
Personnal vehicles is a different story. I always washed my vehicle once a week, so was never a real problem with me. I have paid fellow employees car wash bill because it was embarresing. You know how bad vehicles look in the great white north!>G<
Enough of this petty crapola over a truck.
You dirty your clothes on my job too. Would you like them starched or not? Undies ironed at no extra charge.
at our company you are not going to be busy every minute of every day, so if you want your paycheck friday afternoon, the truck needs to be clean, not detail just clean, sometime you can take ten mintues to wash it. most time hit with the pressure washer. you can do it when you have time or when you dont have time but it gets clean. its not really a big deal. just hit with the hose once a week.now you really want to get people panties in a wad. I also change my oil in my work truck, myself, on my own time. but I got the car lift so it take three minutes. and it usually a two hour wait at wally world
Are the cloths company ptoperty? If they are, you have a responsibility to clean them. If they belong to the employee, they are his responsibility.
At our local oil refinery, for years, the guys had to bring their (company owned) coveralls home to wash. After many years, and many complaints, the company finally did realize that washing oily coveralls in a home washer/dryer wore them out quickly, and many workers' families were quite fed up with it. Washers would typically last only about 3 years, because of the chemicals on the coveralls.
Now they have a service to do it.
Well I see POI works for you. I'm out of this as I've clearly stated my view.
I'm done on this post with these closing comments...
1) If you did work direct for me you wouldn't anymore. If you showed up with a POS truck you wouldn't anymore.
2) Someday you will realize or learn that my name shows at the bottom of the check. I'll match wits and play games for a while. Thereafter I get tired and move on to a better deal or contractor. I don't care either way as I have other things to do. Remember this... I didn't piss in your bed.
Rob
Sure is not nice working for you.
It is attitudes like this that cause bad fealings among employees.
Do you make your employees buy their own tools? Them make them pay for ney ones when they break?
Believe me, I wouldn't work for an employer that is too cheap to pay for business expensives.
Someday you will realize or learn that my name shows at the bottom of the check.>>>>>>>>>.
Someday you will learn, that an employer is not a lisence to make an employee pay for business expensives. Maybe it is time to raise your prices if you can't afford to pay your employees to take care of YOUR trucks.
Blue,
You hire me and give me a truck................no words spoken and you'll never be disappointed.
Comb your hair in the window.
"You hire me and give me a truck"
If I hire you, you better pray for a miracle to get a check LOL!
I can always sleep in the bus!
You'll have to move me outta there if you want a place to stay. You can go upstairs if you're quiet though
How does the office get clean? The secretary comes in on Saturday, cleans without clocking in?Don't think so. It gets cleaned during the week at slow times or by a cleaning service.I don't see much difference with a truck. I never clean my own on a weekend and I own the place. Company name on title,insurance and its depreciated on company tax form.Employees are responsible for their own cab ####(wrappers,butts etc.) but any dirt,mud filth came from working....so work pays for it.jm.02
Interesting to see a few outliers that see it that way. FWIW, I'll be clear that since MY boss disagrees with you, I've decided to agree with him. ;-) It really isn't that burdensome. I really was freaking out over work weeks that were slowly escalating in terms of my time commitment. My wife was starting to take it somewhat hard, and other people in my life started to comment that I seem to "work all the time" and never relax. Which is all fine and well if I were some sort of high-paid powerful executive or something, but I'm a LABORER for crying out loud.
Can't help the way your boss run's his business. I apply a simple principle to the way I run mine....."do unto others...". This helps keep my perspective. You are my employee,not slave. My family is important to me,I assume yours is to you. So I try to run things accordingly.Happy employees are productive employees and will tend to go the extra mile when and if a crunch comes ----without complaining.I know I'm in the minority here,but I'm a big boy and can handle it.
thumper---- I think you just touched on something important there
Happy employeesI betcha that the O.P. is a good guy--and he started this thread on a bad day----- but--- in the line of "happy employees"-- notice that in this thread a lot of employers mentioned that they expect the truck to be kept clean this way---AND a lot of employees mentioned that they would be HAPPY to do so in order to get the very real perk. of a company truck. no reflection on the O.P. at all.-- some employees would feel put upon by this deal--other employees or potential employees would JUMP at the chance for this deal--- so I don't see that it's a situation of an employer taking advantage of anyone As a side issue-- someone mentioned clothes?--- It never occured to me that I would have to spell out responsibilites regaurding clothes to employees.-- I give employees company T shirts-- sometimes they have a logo--often they don't-- but they are always in our company color. One year I gave a set of brand new Tshirts to a new hire---- the next day he shows up in one of the brand new T shirts---with THE SLEEVES CUT OFF!--( T shirt is 1 day old!!!!)-- the guy was pizzzed when I pointed out to him that if I wanted him working on my jobs in sleeveless tshirts-- I would have GIVEN him sleeveless tshirts-- that there was a REASON I was supplying Tshirts in the first place. Once- I gave a brand new ,thick,warm, hooded sweatshirt to an employee-- the really nice brand--with a logo.- later the same day I notice----he has cut thumb holes at the bottom edge of both sleeves and has pulled the cuffs down over his hands so he can use the end of the sleeves as work gloves----- destroyed a verynice jacket-- because he was too cheap to use a $1 pair of work gloves hate to be petty--- but I gotta work on the assumption that if they won't take care of t shirts, sweatshirts, trucks etc.---- they aren't gonna take care of saws,drills, air guns,ladders either---and it's time to look for someone who WILL. Best wishes,
stephen
Stephen, I agree about the tools etc and care of them. My point was just that I consider all that--putting tools away,repairing cords,cleaning the job trailer and the exterior of the truck to be part of my overhead. Because of such, my billing reflects hours spent on such maintenance, thus this is all done at work. Sometimes we quit early,head to the shop,crank the tunes,order some pizzas and start cleaning.This is all part of running a business and I sure am not doing it on a Sat. This is just the way I run my business....everyone is free to do it their way. I'm just responding with my way of thinking. One comment from a customer......"sure can tell you know how to work...them tools are USED,but great to see the cleanliness of your trucks.tells me you will take care of my property"
we had this deal today, most know, we are being hit with heavy rains today, so everybody standing around trying to make 40. Boss came throug and told this one guy that has a pig pen of a truck. "Clean your truck" I dont get paid to clean my truck, i will take it to .....( the auto detail) and the employee was mad about it.Boss told him to go home. I dont have 40. you not getting 40 this week.
boy, that takes the cake
<<<
As a side issue-- someone mentioned clothes?--- It never occured to me that I would have to spell out responsibilites regaurding clothes to employees.-- I give employees company T shirts-- sometimes they have a logo--often they don't-- but they are always in our company color. One year I gave a set of brand new Tshirts to a new hire---- the next day he shows up in one of the brand new T shirts---with THE SLEEVES CUT OFF!--( T shirt is 1 day old!!!!)-- the guy was pizzzed when I pointed out to him that if I wanted him working on my jobs in sleeveless tshirts-- I would have GIVEN him sleeveless tshirts-- that there was a REASON I was supplying Tshirts in the first place.
Once- I gave a brand new ,thick,warm, hooded sweatshirt to an employee-- the really nice brand--with a logo.- later the same day I notice----he has cut thumb holes at the bottom edge of both sleeves and has pulled the cuffs down over his hands so he can use the end of the sleeves as work gloves----- destroyed a verynice jacket-- because he was too cheap to use a $1 pair of work gloves>>>>
we would definitely have wordsMike Hussein Smith Rhode Island : Design / Build / Repair / Restore
hey we got the same people.Bought a good calculator to give an employee. She gave it to her son, she could not operate an calculator. she would spend her paycheck till no money left. could not do math. so she gave the calculator away. Company equipment
This is the funniest thing I've read all day, and I didn't even read this thread past the 1st page except for your posts!
Can't seem to get the **** back in the horse, eh!
LOL - no, this was a humdinger, all right.
You should try to dig up my old junction box thread. I think FaT Roman knows where it is.....................
You made a comment, once, about all your employees "feeding at your table," and it really stuck in my mind. That's definitely how I think about my job, and I'm happy to have it. I started this thread because I've been feeling a little worn down from a series of high pressure work weeks with long, unpredictable hours.
"You made a comment, once, about all your employees 'feeding at your table'."
Feeding at his table? Thats what employees are? Anyone who looked at me that way could keep their job.
"Am I off base"
Yes
Think about it a bit.
So, you didn't read the rest of the thread.Edit: In which I've thought about it. And seen that I was wrong.
Edited 3/19/2009 11:34 pm ET by Biff_Loman
"So, you didn't read the rest of the thread."
You are right. I usually comment right away, then see what others have said. It takes a big man to admit he is wrong. You Biff, are a big man!
man remind me to wait and reread my post BEFORE i post it... :) you have taken the shots well....
I don't wash my own stuff as often as i should either... but if i use someone elses stuff i all but detail it before i return it.... "clean it like you are getting ready to sell it" my dad use to say :)
peace...
p:)
now that you've taken every side of this issue yourself ...
I'll just add one thing.
once you start cleaning the truck once a week ... you'll find how quick/easy it is to keep clean. It's only time consuming when you put it off for too long.
Jeff
Buck Construction
Artistry In Carpentry
Pittsburgh Pa
Man you got hammered.
I ,working for myself never wash my truck or organize the cab.
My plan is to run it into the ground in ten years and buy me another one and do the same thing.
And your estimate of time spent cleaning just reminds me of how much money and labor I will save over that ten year period.
Thanks and quit feeling guilty. {: ^ )
ANDYSZ2
WHY DO I HAVE TO EXPLAIN TO FRIENDS AND FAMILY THAT BEING A SOLE PROPRIETOR IS A REAL JOB?
REMODELER/PUNCHOUT SPECIALIST
If I worked for a company that I was proud to represent, and they "gave" me a company vehicle to use, I would be glad to keep it decent looking as a representative of the company I work for.
Look, most of the interior you can keep decent by putting stuff back where it belongs and maintaining an organized work place. The cab is keep your garbage pile down, don't spill #### all over clean the windows and wipe the dash every week or two.
Depending on weather conditions it may or may not make sense to wash it............run it through the car wash?
It also depends on wether or not you actually are or feel that you are receiving "market rate" compensation for your position in addittion to the vehicle, or if your employer has decided that he will pay you less than the going rate and give you the truck to even things out.
We can run this thread up to 200 replies and it's not going to change things much.
If you truly feel that you should not have to keep the truck clean, then it's time for a sit down with the guy that signs your check.
One moe thing...........many companies will have their guys come in early one day a week or every two weeks and do a combined organize, restock and wash the trucks all while having a company meeting and having a little fun at the same time. or they have lesser paid employess do it while the filed staff is in a co meeting.
I have understood that Canada is not quite in the throes of the economic mess we are.
You are very fortunate.
Eric
Take pride in the fact your employer trusts you well enough to take on the additional liability of having you operating a company truck, with company insurance and maintenance, (and perhaps even fuel?).
Clean the truck!
Organizing should be done at the end of each stop for service vehicles and at the end of each day for construction vehicles.
Generally the insurance expense is greater for vehicles driven home by employees as the vehicle is under less employer control.
Clean the truck! Pay some kids to clean the truck. Go to the drive thru car wash if it fits.
Thank your boss for giving you a vehicle and insurance, I imagine that saves you at least $400.00/month.
it's Fri nite ...
so ....
did U wash the truck yet?
or are U still stuck at work ...
Jeff
Buck Construction
Artistry In Carpentry
Pittsburgh Pa
Heh. I'm going to do it this afternoon (worked this morning).I managed to get off at noon today!
If you get to use to drive home at night (and not having to use any of your own auto/fuel during the work week) then quit the wining and wash the truck.
Mike
I think you're splitting hairs here. Sure, the way you present it "25 hours a year donated by yours truly" makes it sound major but it isn't.
Almost everytime I'm in a 7/11 there's company trucks parked outside with the guys inside getting coffee, and this isn't at lunchtime. And we've all driven by office buildings and seen all the smokers outside "on break". Point being there's lots of small personal stuff done on company time. And it doesn't take much of that stuff to get to 25 hours a year.
I will grant you that "a couple hours each Saturday" sounds excessive. A half hour a week should be plenty.
And come to think of it, in a round about way you CAN get paid for keeping a clean truck. Come raise time, that's one factor of dozens that will be considered. It may not be in the form of a checkbox next to "Does he keep a clean truck?" but part of the overall image you present of yourself. And, for better or worse, that's going to leave an impression.
Interesting thread however.
Runnerguy
Sorry, I think you should clean it.
Ok. (Did that seem too easy?)Edit: the other 97 posts in this thread were just filler, btw.
Edited 3/26/2009 9:45 pm ET by Biff_Loman
As others have said, I think this thread illustrates the difference between two very different ways of thinking.
One side wants the employer to pay for everything that is used in conjunction with the business. After all, he is the "man" and should be paying for it.
The other side wants the employees to be thankful for a paycheck every week and feels that the employee should be prepared to give a little.
I've purposely used a negative tone to talk about both to (hopefully) hide my bias towards one side.
My question is- aren't most employees here free to come an go as they please? I believe most states have some form of "At-will employment". I'm not a contract lawyer, but as I understand this doctrine, employees are free to come and go as they please and they employer cannot force the employee to keep working if the employee does not wish to do so.
So with this in mind, why can't every employee make a judgment call about whether he wants continuing employment with any employer? If the employer's demands are excessive, cannot the employee leave? And if the employer's demands are excessive at face value, but those demands are compensated at a level where the employee is happy, cannot the employee stay?
Look at civilian contractors in Iraq. Do they not have to endure some pretty significant challenges (away from family, difficult climate, risk to life and limb, etc.) in the course of their work? Do they choose to stay, and some choose to return for a second contract? Seemingly, yes.
My point is, if the employer and employee can come to an agreement, every one is happy. If not, something needs to change. If the employer changes the terms of the agreement, the employee then has to determine whether to continue with that employer or go somewhere else. Simple as that.
Jon Blakemore
RappahannockINC.com Fredericksburg, VA
Very well said....
The employee/employer relationship should not be adversarial, it should be a cooperative thing
As an employer, I should not ask employees to do unpaid work, but..
as an employee I should do whatever I can to help the employer.
The difficulty is in the balance.
I should not ask employees to do unpaid work,BUTthe company always have to make money, no sense paying someone just because they are there, even though it would be illegal not to pay them, its the thought that counts.
So:
Just after I started this thread, the boss had another chat with us about the trucks. . . and I talked it over with my co-worker, and we resolved to wash them. The next week, we both showed up with cleanly vehicles!
And the boss was so happy he didn't say anything or acknowledge it in any way. ;-)
Edit: I'm still washing it anyway, guys.
Edited 4/13/2009 10:56 pm ET by Biff_Loman
"or acknowledge it in any way. ;-)"
ya got to come back and work another week didn't ya!
Jeff Buck Construction
Artistry In Carpentry
Pittsburgh Pa
Heh.
I find this whole clean truck thing quite odd. The other day I asked a friend of mine how his new neighbors were and he replied: "Great, He drives a F350 and keeps it immaculate". I didn't know what to say. I can't imagine a stranger way to judge someone's character, or for that matter their skill as a tradesman, than how clean their truck is. That whole world of shiny vehicles parked outside suburban tract houses just reflects the class anxieties of their owners. I stay well out of it and treat people showing up in such trucks with suspicion.
"That whole world of shiny vehicles parked outside suburban tract houses just reflects the class anxieties of their owners."
uh ... or maybe they enjoy having their truck look nice?
what an odd conclusion to jump to.
do you mistrust people who shower daily?
Jeff Buck Construction
Artistry In Carpentry
Pittsburgh Pa
In general I do find people who would rather sit in their garden and read, or tinker in their shop, more congenial than those who consume their free time making sure their possessions are spotless.
I judge tradesman by their work and their character. How clean they are or how they dress is immaterial to me. I don't recall Larry Haun looking too dapper in any of his FHB pictures over the years.
The idea that obsessive concern with the cleanliness of one's possessions reflects anxiety over one's social status isn't mine, it's Paul Fussells. But then I might not know that if I had cleaned my truck :)
Edit for spelling.
Edited 4/21/2009 2:40 am ET by fingersandtoes
I can't say whether your out of line or not. I'd just like to mention that, if I worked for a company, I'd be really appreciative if they gave me a truck to use 24/7, and even paid the insurance, maintenance, etc.. For that matter, there's a lot of folks who would be happy to be working at all. I'm sure you're a good guy and an asset to the company.
That other poster (http://forums.taunton.com/tp-breaktime/messages?msg=117966.3) was a bit out of line, with all the rage and the ###'s. If someone told me "If I don't like it.." he wouldn't have to tell me where the door is. I'd already be walking out of it.
~ Ted W ~
Cheap Tools! - MyToolbox.net
Meet me at House & Builder!
Edited 4/14/2009 10:21 pm by Ted W.
Oh, I am happy to have a job. Let us be clear. Meh, I think this whole thing was a little bit of my old man showing through. He's an aggressive deal-maker, never willing to take what's offered unless he can improve his share. No matter how much money I make, he always says I should have negotiated for more - that kind of thing. ;-)He thought that I should definitely NOT wash the truck on my own time. Whereas I'm very agreeable, a real team player, just happy to do my part. Every once in a blue moon I have a little "What's in it for me?" moment, then it passes.
I wash my truck on my time because I like riding in a clean truck, yea *cough cough* BS ;)
no reason why I wash my truck weekly, it keep boss off my #### and on those that do not wash their trucks.
Edited 4/17/2009 9:37 pm by brownbagg
and on those that do not wash their trucks.
Might be worth it right there.
"When the spirits are low, when the day appears dark, when work becomes monotonous, when hope hardly seems worth having, just mount a bicycle and go out for a spin down the road, without thought on anything but the ride you are taking." — Sherlock Holmes, 1896
Every once in a blue moon I have a little "What's in it for me?"
Same here, and not such a bad thing. ;)~ Ted W ~
Cheap Tools! - MyToolbox.netMeet me at House & Builder!
My Dad used to tell the tale of the guy that was missing for an extra long time at lunch - and came back with a fresh haircut.
Boss, Where you been ?
Dude, Gettin' a haircut !
Boss, On Company time ?
Dude, Well, it grew on Company time !
Boss, Not all of it !
Dude, Well, I didn't get all of it cut off ! !
Greg
The amount of time we've been beating this dead horse, EVERYONE could have washed their trucks!
MikeInsert initially amusing but ultimately annoying catch phrase here.
quit pushin'...
I need an extension...
get to it right after..................................
Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming<!----><!----><!---->
WOW!!! What a Ride!
Forget the primal scream, just ROAR!!!
"Some days it's just not worth chewing through the restraints"
I need an extension...
For your scrub brush?
MikeInsert initially amusing but ultimately annoying catch phrase here.
on time...
got the truck in '95...
haven't had the time to wash it yet...
nor my '92...
or the '76 for that matter....
Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming<!----><!----><!---->
WOW!!! What a Ride!
Forget the primal scream, just ROAR!!!
"Some days it's just not worth chewing through the restraints"
That's ok, I used to paint em more often than wash.
MikeInsert initially amusing but ultimately annoying catch phrase here.
I try to drive in the rain every few months....
Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming<!----><!----><!---->
WOW!!! What a Ride!
Forget the primal scream, just ROAR!!!
"Some days it's just not worth chewing through the restraints"
LOL!!!!
You just make that up? That was a good one.~ Ted W ~
Cheap Tools! - MyToolbox.netMeet me at House & Builder!
Lord, no. My Pop used the tell that story 40 years ago.These days, lots of guys DO get it all cut off. Buddy of mine went with the totally bald look - I asked him if he was in remission !Greg