Supposed I wanted a simple truss with one plane 18” below the other plane with a verticle area for clerestory windows.
4/12 on both planes, about 24′ from top plate to top plate with 16” tails…or would the higher plane have to be a different pitch? Obviously, I didn’t sketch it yet, just cooking an idea.
Can such a critter be made? and what would the technical term be ?
This would be a garage, unheated.
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Replies
Sphere,
yes they can be made.
I will see if I have a pic of some .
These are trusses that are set 8' OC., 2 x 6 purloins 2'OC.
Coomercial roof, but I have had them done for smaller OC spacing.
Boss will for sure know how it all works.
Ok, we're close now. I wanted to see the verticle part plumb down from the ridge and meet the lower plane, not the over hang from one plane over the other.
Thanks for the pics, that is a general idea of what I envisioned.
Hard for me to picture it working without one of few things having to happen.
Either an off center ridge line , different eave heights, the overhanging roof planes or what you said you wished to avoid , different pitches.
I can't visualize it working without one of those happening , but then I sometimes am slow to put the picture in focus.
Verticle legs , but with the same overhanging pitches concept.
I could deal with differnt pitches, I just want to keep it fairly flat. 4,5,6,/ 12. I hate 8/12 and the house is 10/12, story and a half, so the garage attached should in my mind be different.
i agree! i guess we were typing at the same time.
""All great minds"" ;-)
That would be a good building for growing pot .
Tim
How about stick framing so a X pitch parallel chord truss will sit on top. Clerestory windows without obstruction.
View Image
Edited 3/1/2007 2:40 pm ET by RalphWicklund
I might have to. We DO have snow on the ten yr. cycle, that would preclude me making a chicken house design..all I want is an easily erected roof system ( I.e. ME) and a sturdy platform for the future.
Once again, I made a simple design idea, fraught with compexities.
all I want is an easily erected roof system ( I.e. ME)
I'm thinking the simplest would be how Joe does it ...
2 beams ... and then drag up some common rafters.
in-fill frame a wall ...
Jeff Buck Construction
Artistry In Carpentry
Pittsburgh Pa
I give ya 300 a day for a week and food ( beer is on you, I hadda quit)..lets build.
sure ...
offer me now ... when my "slow down" is officially over!
typical.
Jeff Buck Construction
Artistry In Carpentry
Pittsburgh Pa
Same here, you did not wanna be here a week ago.
Grant turned me on to a dude that is kinda close, ( Gordon) but, man, he is laaaaaaiiiidd baccccck. I need a thumper and a humper. I can't slow down enuff to deal with that mentality. I like the rush of flowing along at a goodly pace, and that " well, lemme, think, well, I , might, well, do..."
F that, I like to rock on, right or wrong, I can fix it if I was wrong.
If I had Clouds vision, your attitude, Grants Copper, and DP and Joe Framing, BH's trusses, and some eye candy like Splinty...Mike Smith and Piffen running the books ( I'd be fired) , BB doing the 'crete, I'd still be fired.
I like the way that works, i must be in my realm.
Oh. Rez can pick the first batch of tunes, then I take over.
Gunner is not allowed in either the bathroom ( for obvious reasons) or the kitchen ( for obvious reasons).
I need Johnt8 for reach, and ballast.
Wait..I gotta new thread Idea..see me in the tavern.
it really is simple to do! your idea is great and easy to accomplish. but the more it continues on here the more complicated it sounds. i say just go for it!
if you want the same pitch with the windows at the ridge then you will need trusses
with different heel hieghts. which will depend on the size window etc..
Kinda what I thought, I could vary the wall height no?
Be easier to do a raised heel at the one end of the truss, than raise the wall height. Otherwise I think (need boss for this part) you end up with a top chord bearing at one end of the truss and bottom chord bearing at the other end.
Or unequal pitches.
Roger that. I be getting final dims. tomorrow or thursday, and start drawing.
It's a pretty common design for livestock buildings. The celestory area is a baffled vent.I know where there are a dozen such buildings within a couple miles of me, but I can't think right now whether the pitch is different, or the wall hieghts, but I'm gonna guess wall hieght is the way these simple buildings work.tried looking for a pic, but even google is no help.A medium to large guy named Alan, not an ambiguous female....NOT that there is anything wrong with that.
"A medium to large guy named Alan, not an ambiguous female....NOT that there is anything wrong with that."
I just caught that ....
very funny.
Jeff Buck Construction
Artistry In Carpentry
Pittsburgh Pa
Is this something like you had in mind?
View Image
It's not big deal to build. all ya gotta do is figure out the dimensions + pitches you want.
He that lies down with dogs, shall rise up with fleas. [Benjamin Franklin]
See that king post / center stud? If it ran up an additional 18" and the right plane met it at its top, not that top chord shooting out over the left. More like a lazy "Z".
For some reason I have a bear of a time attaching from my desktop 'puter, I'll sketch it w/ paint on the laptop or something.
Close tho'.
View ImageSamT
Anyone who doesn't take truth seriously in small matters cannot be trusted in large ones either. [Einstein] Tks, BossHogg.
Sam da MAN! "A" is the ticket!
I don't exactly know what ya mean.Honestly - This is sometimes the hardest part of my job - Trying to figure out what someone wants. What I posted was just a rough example. The pitches, heel heights, and vertical location could all be changed. The extended top chord could certainly have a vertical directly under it. (Although it wouldn't extend all the way through like in Sam's example)I don't mind playing with some more examples if you want to sketch something up.
I was just really hungry, and I wanted to have an In-N-Out burger [Paris Hilton]
"A" in Sam's example.
http://forums.taunton.com/tp-breaktime/messages?msg=86398.17
Edited 3/1/2007 7:33 am ET by Sphere
The one I posted was basically the same as what Sam drew. The only difference was a vertical at the end of the extended top chord.Unless you want to play with pitches, heel heights, or distances. In which case I'd have to have some idea what you were after.
DW always laughs during sex - no matter what she's reading.
Sam's is about as exact as I intend, I guess what I was asking is can that be made? I have never seen a truss like that, and now that I think about it, if it was doubled up could I go wider than 2' OC. say 32"?
I'll skip sheathe and go with metal roof. Ideally.
There's nothing really different between what Sam drew and what I drew except the vertical at the end of the top chord.They can certainly be put on wider centers, as long as they're designed for whatever centers that go on. Trusses 4' O.C. with 2X4 purlins laid flat works well and is cost effective.
They say that when a man holds a woman's hand before marriage, it is love. After marriage, it's self-defense.
There's nothing really different between what Sam drew and what I drew
At the risk of offending the master, I disagree with that statement. They look very different to me."Put your creed in your deed." Emerson
"When asked if you can do something, tell'em "Why certainly I can", then get busy and find a way to do it." T. Roosevelt
Well, one is a scaled drawing, and the other is a small stick figure. So I guess they are different.(-:There are millions of possible combinations of heel heights, pitches, and distances to the vertical. I was just showing that the basic kind of truss he wants is possible. I don't mind drawing up another kind of truss if he wants to come up with some specifics. But to just keep drawing and drawing pictures until I finally guess what someone wants is kinda silly.
Unfortunately, you sometimes need a Columbine to focus people's attention [Sen. Charles Schumer]
That is not a stick figure! (|:>(
It's a crayola on a napkin figure.
Yet, somehow, for all it's apparent crudity, it clearly shows that;
The left hand slope is A:12
The right hand slope is B:12
The vertical clerestory is C" clear between the top of the left and bottom of the right chords
The left face of the clerestory vert is D' E" from the outer face of the left bearing wall
The total span is F' G" out-to-out of the bearing walls.
The left bearing wall is 2xH. The right is 2xI.
The elevations of the bearing walls are identical.
The clerestory vert can be lengthened or the right top slope can be adjusted to fit.
The right ceiling will be DWed
The right face of the vertical member at the clerestory will be DWed
The sides of each left truss will be DWed wrapping around the bottom chord.
All DW will be doubled 5/8 type X fire rated at J lbs ft2
The roof dead loading is K lbs
Live load is L lbs
Snow load is M lbs
SamT
Anyone who doesn't take truth seriously in small matters cannot be trusted in large ones either. [Einstein] Tks, BossHogg.
After examining slope A" through bearing "G", I'd say you can take "H" and stick it in your "I".(-:
If you are reluctant to ask the way, you will be lost [Malayan Proverb]
LOL.
Ron, I just wanted to be assured that if I envisioned a truss in that design that it really could be made, and not get my hopes up in vain.
Wall hieght, pitch, etc, is flexible. My main focus is keeping the time of building reasonable, and costs within reason.
I ask these type of questions here, rather than 84 Lum. or Lowes, to get a feel of what I am getting into. We have a truss plant in Lex. and I am sure they are at least as good as the next plant, but I really hate it when I am so focused on one aspect of the design, that I overlook a simple framing solution due to the fact that I don't frame for a living anymore, and that part of my self has gotten a bit rusty.
My plan as of now is to set the 6x6 posts and LVLS as a carport, then add the curtain walls as $ and time allow.. This is a process, not an event. By getting the soon to be garage attached to the house, I then have a work platform to continue the work on the side of the house, w/o setting up a major amount of scaffold. I also gain covered work space that is UTMOST important. While it would be cake and pie to get just get a Fink truss, I think this added glass would benefit the look exponentially.
I hope that helps clear the air.
BTW, Sam nailed it, no overshoot on that top chord@ the ridge. Unless, there is a reason I am missing?
No big deal - I'm just not exactly clear on the specifics of what you want. If you want an inexpensive, halfway homemade clestory deal I have a thought for ya. Many places (Around here at least) stock inexpensive 24' - 4/12 trusses. You could buy some of them, and add some field framing to extend the top chord on one side to form the clestory. If you do try to order trusses, I'd skip the lumberyards and go straight to the truss plant if that's an option. Cut the middleman out of the equation and you're more likely to get what you want. Definitely make sure you get a drawing of what they intend to build before you agree to buy it.And I'll still work on more drawings for ya if you'll give me a more specific idea what you want.
The body pays for a slip of the foot, and gold pays for a slip of the tongue [Malaysian Proverb]
Damm! See? That is why I asked here first. Frame the windows on top of the standard truss! Duh! Then I can make the windows as wide as I want and I don't care if the fink top chord is in view, this is only for the look from the road, and added light, and maybe ventilation.
I realize a standard garage needs firerated sheetrocking, but a carport, does not. If it stops the raining I will get more measurements, right now it it is a gully washer downpour and 30+ MPH wind.
Hey..so I could set a mono truss on top of a standard truss piggy back every other one..?
I wouldn't say you need a mono truss to set up there - I'd just do it with stick framing. That way you could play around with it and make it look like you want it to once you have the trusses set.If you want a bigger opening, you could double up trusses around 4' wide openings and stick frame between 'em. That would give you more room for a window, and there wouldnt be a truss inside blocking the light.One other minor suggestion - If it were me, I'd run the roof past the windows so you have at least a LITTLE overhang up there. But maybe that's just personal preference...
When a man opens the door of his car for his wife, you can be sure of one thing: either the car is new, or the wife is.
Both excellent suggestions. I will be stting w/o a crane or forklift, so if I can flip em up and tie em in, all be good.
Thanks.
I screwed up. Here's the drawing.Joe Carola
Thanks for that...but really, I'd wonder the benefits of sticking it and beam, vs. trusses.?
As a garage, I'd like a botton chord as a storage, be it racks hanging, or somewhat loading with trim on the top of the bottom chord..ya know, stick it up there, and forget it, type space.
If I could beam the king post and add a lally, would that not transfer the ridge beam as you show? I'd prefer no door knockers, and have a clear span inside...
Maybe I ain't right, I just want a garage with windows on the ridge, and keep it as simple as can be.
Boss...why the overhang? I ain't after shade..I want sun.
I was thinking the overhang would help shade direct sunlight in the summer, when the sun angle is higher. You'd still get light inside, but maybe not so much heat.
The other day when I was walking through the woods, I saw a rabbit standing in front of a candle making shadows of people on a tree.
Boss, MY bad, there is a huge tree, I got shade..and as the next post says, it is a simple job for a good company like you are with. I just didn't know for sure.
>> Thanks for that...but really, I'd wonder the benefits of sticking it and beam, vs. trusses.? <<Sphere,The benefit of stick framing it like I do is that it's open to the room below and you can see the windows from the floor and let the light in. If seeing the windows is what you want.The benefit of using trusses is that you have a flat ceiling and storage space like you said. You have a nice look from outside. The only thing is that you can't see the windows from inside and since that's not a concern trusses would work out fine for you.Joe Carola
Trust me, If I had you and Brian here for two days, we'd thump this out..I'd cut the joints, and you'd be happy..LOL.
Thanks Joe.
No way could that be done with trusses. There's no depth to work with. You could make some design changes so parts of it could be done with trusses. But you'd be losing some of the interior depth.
Getting married for sex is like buying a 747 for the free peanuts. [Jeff Foxworthy]
HUH? There is no depth?
His sketch showed rafters, like maybe 2X12s. You can't make a truss that is only 11 1/4" deep. That's why I said no depth. Maybe I should have said "No depth in the framing menbers".
Where there's a carcass, there will be vultures [Malayan Proverb]
After our (my) failed attempt at the shop-amid I feel guilty that you even had to draw what I saw in my mind. I will reimburse you for your efforts, we ain't done yet,I just need to get some more cash your way. Sorry.
And before this gets outta hand, I don't want a blueprint of a truss, I just wanted to know if it was possible to have a truss made, rather than stick frame it. I know I can beef up large timbers and go 4' OC and frame it, but the time/money factor is considerable no matter how I attack it.
Sam, you've been here, you know what I have on my plate...I NEED a shop space, and this my best grab at it, with what I have to work with.
Thank you for sketching what I see.
Just curious ? what is the width of the ahhem garage.
Thinking of the clears span ?if it was beam and stick framed.
As talked about does the clear story have to be center in the building or if not as shown in a couple of pictures then it could maintain the same roof planes but if your desire was for it to be centered then yu have different ext wall hight or diff pitch.
And if you answer those 2 questions Boss could shoot you the numbers and you could get on the payment plan, less water of course.
Size= about 24x24 under roof...even that is variable at this time.
I am not locked in to anything, I am phishing for for flaws.
Kinda like design by proxy.
clear span beam 24'/cost/weight/ is ruling that out now centered or offset on clear story and interior ceiling hight and G door hight? Hey I know your gonna be getting a deal on a big motor home so got to go with ? 9'/10' door ceiling ? to the back yard.
If you are majorly Phrophetic, I think I'd want a new life.
Had to go look it up Sorry, no dictionaries indexed in the selected category contain the word Phrophetic.
So it's pobably like other stuff you just don't want to know.
But with all the holes in I can put a lot in it, but not much sticks in it(my head)
And hear I thought you were saying that I wore a bunch of condoms ,Ha
prophetic
pro·phet·ic [ prə féttik ]
adjective
Definition:
1. correctly predicting: predicting or foreshadowing something that does eventually happen
2. of prophet: relating to a prophet
[15th century. Via French or late Latin < Greek prophçtikos < prophçtes (see prophet)]
View ImageView Imagepro·phet·i·cal adjective
View ImageView Imagepro·phet·i·cal·ly adverb
So let's have a look at your demeanor, you prefer to to examime and find fault with simple verbiage, to the point of questioning the intent, due the lack of self security..then you make an assumption about brew and post it, not to me, but to another.
You express a cowardly whimpness, you can't even, address your snide bifurcations to ME.
Go AWAY.
Un benownst to me the meaning so Is a go a looking in the clik manual and then I find out . Now don' t get all grumpy on me.
Kinda early in Utah to be pilasterd iddn it?
In the old days it'd be a little early to still be standing but we don't do that no more.
Now if I had a friend to help me design a garage I would have been told to don't for get to meassure how high the work trailer is. Just in case it needed to go in. Well that's not a problem now cause it doesn't. Fit.
FWIW.....2 cents worth
your plan with the trusses 24" oc. works, frame a false work in front of the verticle truss member for the windows you want. No headers if you just extend the top chord just long enough to cover the false work wall, no beams. Quick, easy, one man.
Beams, posts, headers and rafters and beer are gonna cost way more than the trusses before you are done.
Get yer azz out here in a month..and show me (G).
Geeze , I already showed you the pics of how it is done you need me to hold your hand ? lol
Needs help drinkin all the Brew.
Hey..where i live most "H's " are shilent, ya fhart.
Sphere,
Both these clearstories were done as I described. The trusses here are 8' oc but the same method applies. These are the insides of what I posted early in this thread.
The false framing with 2'oc. trusses is really nothing more than strapping, with sheeting over it, applied to the vertical leg of the truss.
If the lower pitch is like 4/12 sheet it all the way up to the vertical leg first and then working on the roof is easy, either do a raised heel for the other side or make it say a 7/12 and you will end up with close to 3' of glass.
One thing to consider is how much clearance you want below the window sill and the lower roof deck for flashing , weather tightness.
Say you want 6" .
Then a 2 x 6 nailed flat to the verticals gives you your sill and one at the top gives you room for head flashing for the roof. just fill in every other truss vertical and you now have 2'+/- by about 42" for a window. Do every fourth truss with the verticals and it becomes nearly 6' Edit : Sorry posted the same pic twice. Gives the idea though
Edited 3/1/2007 5:40 pm ET by dovetail97128
Thank you..x a zillion. That is IT.
Now my plan is a pent roof both front and back, on the lower kick...see? I love it when a plan, just morphs into the final.
The pic you labeled as "Save0021.JPG" isn't structurally sound - The vertical at the center would have a tremendous amount of bending force in it.
Individuality: Great in everything except police lineups
boss,
Thanks , you would know .
I was wondering about that(not trying to steal your job I ain't that bright) .
I Knew that what I drew wasn't what the trusses actually looked like , but wanted a simple picture for sphere to see.
Now that you have a pic that he says is what he wants the shape to be what would one that actually will stand up look like ?
Edit:
bending forces that can't be offset by webbing?
Edited 3/1/2007 8:36 pm ET by dovetail97128
I never did exactly figure out what shape he was lookin' for...(-:
Q: What's the difference between a blonde and an ironing board?
A: It's often difficult to open the legs of an ironing board.
He posted this in reply to my post with the drawing.
86398.76 Which is the one that you said won't work because of the bending forces involved
Edited 3/1/2007 8:55 pm ET by dovetail97128
Boss, any better?
Yup - That one would work.
The proverb warns that "you should not bite the hand that feeds you." But perhaps you should , if it prevents you from feeding yourself. [Thomas Szasz]
Boss,All the houses I've framed with Clerestory Windows I've framed with structural beams and walls on top of them. The windows sit on top of the beam. The whole room is cathedral below.The question I have is there a way to make a truss like I stick frame it like this drawing? The structural beam you will see is what holds everything up. Could they make a truss that would give the same effect?Joe Carola
Joe, I can't open that file. Help a brother out here?
Boss, could you drop the top cord on the left 7/12 18" at the center post? I think that is what he is after. dan
Sphere,
Do you want the window to be exactly in the center of the span?
Jon Blakemore
RappahannockINC.com Fredericksburg, VA
I would like to have a slew of windows all the way across the ridge. I would also like them to be wider than they are tall, fixed glass most likely. Possibly a few that are operable such as an awning window for some added venting.
For clarity sake, the glass side is south. So in my mind I refer to that plane as south facing, and the other the north. I don't care for the look of the north plane overshooting the south, but if there is a valid reason for that detail that I am missing, I can deal with it. 90% of my serious weather arrives from the W or WNW, and the house is on that side to shelter the garage from the onslaught.
This will be a garage that can be driven thru, doors opposing, that is the main access to my back forty, and on the other side of the house is my other access, both are fairly tight to the property line, my house lot is trapezoidal, the back lot is rather rectangular with a corner chopped out. I was gonna sell that back lot, but no matter what I do, I would have to allow an easement to it on my house lots western edge, and I wont do that.
FWIW..
I have double framed walls on the face of 2'oc. trusses for clerestory windows. Just add 6" or so to the length of the top chord and frame a wall under it to whatever window size you want.
Truss is visible behind the window but you can frame the double wall to
say center a truss on a 4' window.
Watch out for the "header" height on the clerestory (btdt).
You will want enough height to get the ceiling into whatever head trim these will get. And, that ceiling "lops off" height frighteningly fast, too.
The next thing to watch for is available window heights; been to that circus, too, more times than I want to think about.
Mac, Methinks that a truss doan need no header..?
No cieling so to speak, it is a garage, but good point to ponder.
And last,I am making the windows, and my glass shop makes up IG panes in any size I template for.
Am I missing any other salient points?
I'm sure there is a good reason not to do this, but I'm going to disagree with the truss guy.I would not stick frame on top of your trusses when you could have the truss company do that for you. Whenever we do a lay on, the truss package always says to sheathe the entire area that will be covered by the lay on. I think you would be required to do this in your case, although you may be able to get away with 2x4 purlins. If not, you would have to use 50% more sheathing than necessary.You could also run into potential problems with the long lumber lengths needed and providing for mid-span support of your rafter. Maybe it wouldn't be a problem, but I bet the point loads you would introduce would raise an eyebrow or two of an inspector.Finally, why stick frame it when you can have the truss company do it? I'm betting that the extra cost would not equal what it would be worth for you to do it.Cap'n Mac said something about the height needed- I would plan on having 48" clear at your "wall" line. The shortest windows we can get are 26" (although that may just be for double hung windows, I'm not sure) and I would think you would want your windows 6" above the lower roof. Add 6" for the frieze board or trim detail above the window and you're at 38" already. Why not just spec an even 4' and you can then sheathe with full sheet of ply and have room for a nice size window. Of course, maybe you can get a fixed windows much shorter and this is a moot point.
Jon Blakemore RappahannockINC.com Fredericksburg, VA
"Whenever we do a lay on, the truss package always says to sheathe the entire area that will be covered by the lay on."
Technically, you're right. But he's talking about a small truss and a pretty small unsupported area. So it doesn't bother me.
"You could also run into potential problems with the long lumber lengths needed and providing for mid-span support of your rafter."
Maybe you misunderstood what I was suggesting. I never meant that he should over-frame half the truss - Just that he could extend one top chord out over the other one 6' or so in order to form the clestory.
The existence of the sea means the existence of pirates [Malayan Proverb]
You're right, I did not understand what you were suggesting.I guess I should have followed my advice in the first paragraph I wrote <g>
Jon Blakemore RappahannockINC.com Fredericksburg, VA
Am I missing any other salient points?
Nope, looks good so far. You get to skip over a couple just by dint of the method (unless you get a syphilitic BI or the like).
Oh, while noodling truss elevations, don't forget to thing about how the roof will return back to the clerestory "wall" face.
Probably ok in this case, you are not matching an facsia/soffit details any deeper than the top chord in this case, so, probably all good. Just don't want to be like the shed down the street from me with the exposed "rafter" tails butting against the clerestory glass . . . Occupational hazard of my occupation not being around (sorry Bubba)
My flashing against existing wayward logs is a reckoning, but fortunatly, I do that for a living (G).
The more I ponder, and piss off the nay sayers, I'll get me some poplar 4x6 and park em on the 14" LVLs. Maybe cut a Queen post truss, before I get so addled of the brain, that I forget how.
Full mortise and tennon, with a dovetail keeper...I need to DO something...
Oh..posh. Decisions wear me out.
Yeah, well . . .
Didja notice the weather got all riled up after Shreddie got back from NZ?
The "other" way a person could do the clerestory would be to build the wall of it across the span, set on the end walls. Then, just use whatever seems more sensible, floor trusses, TJI, stick rafters, whatever, on the "high" roof; then half trusses, or sticks or whatever for the "low" roof.
That'd be the "way" of it, if one were doing the "lincoln log" way of it, wouldn't it? (Man, the seat cuts in that "gable end" would be a bear after a while . . . :-( )Occupational hazard of my occupation not being around (sorry Bubba)
I must be so mis commucating that I am now lost. All I wanted to axe is if the truss could be made..a friggin fink with a raised plane.
Now I got some whack job posting my kinda jibber jab, I own that, it is me.
Damm, break some ground, and some fool, will wallow in it.
Or worse, steal it.
I feel stealed.
be steeled.