FHB Logo Facebook LinkedIn Email Pinterest Twitter X Instagram Tiktok YouTube Plus Icon Close Icon Navigation Search Icon Navigation Search Icon Arrow Down Icon Video Guide Icon Article Guide Icon Modal Close Icon Guide Search Icon Skip to content
Subscribe
Log In
  • How-To
  • Design
  • Tools & Materials
  • Restoration
  • Videos
  • Blogs
  • Forum
  • Magazine
  • Members
  • FHB House
  • Podcast
Log In

Discussion Forum

Discussion Forum

C’mon KitchenAid

PaulBinCT | Posted in General Discussion on July 6, 2005 03:58am

Yesterday (yes I worked on the 4th) I was installing a high end KitchenAid dw in this condo I’m remodeling.  I seem to recall the owner telling me they paid about 800 bucks for it. 

Well, I made the cardinal sin of being cocky, I figured I’ve installed enough dws to just dive in.  All went well enough with the electric, then I get to the drain hose and see that it has those cheesy wire clamps which I hate, so I toss em, grumble about the 10 cents it saves the manufacturer and move on to the water inlet.  When I get to the inlet connection, I realize that the solenoid, being mounted vertically, must have an elbow installed to connect to the water line.  Not just for my installation, but any installation.  That being the case… surelyyyyyyyyyy they must include one right?  Now, personally I think it should be preinstalled at the factory since every single installation will require one but I imagine that would cost another nickle so I guess they put one in the parts bag.  Let’s see… free pouch of detergent…check… a DVD (yes DVD) on the joys of your new KitchenAid dw…check. Elbow? Hello… elbow… where areeeee you??? I look on page 1 of the manual and there it is “Also required: 3/8″ 90 degree elbow”

Now, sure I should have read this at the onset but really.  If you make a product that sells for top dollar, and you know that every single person installing one will need an elbow, install it at the factory or for God’s sake at least include one in the parts bag.  Save the free detergent pouch, save the DVD (who watches a DVD about their dishwasher?) Pathetic… really pathetic.

Reply
  • X
  • facebook
  • linkedin
  • pinterest
  • email
  • add to favorites Log in or Sign up to save your favorite articles

Replies

  1. jrnbj | Jul 06, 2005 04:03am | #1

    yep!!!!!

  2. JonE | Jul 06, 2005 03:51pm | #2

    Wait 'til they start using it and every single plastic part in it breaks, and the cheesy plastic hose clogs repeatedly.

    It's why we pitched an $800 KA DW in favor of a cheaper (and MUCH better) Bosch.

     

    1. User avater
      PaulBinCT | Jul 06, 2005 05:17pm | #3

      Great...

      Something to look forward to ;)

    2. JohnT8 | Jul 06, 2005 07:38pm | #6

      It's why we pitched an $800 KA DW in favor of a cheaper (and MUCH better) Bosch.

      Neighbor's expensive Bosch dw caught on fire about a month ago.  Quick response from HO and fire dept meant more smoke damage than fire.  Might have taken an hour to install, but they had it "uninstalled" in about 2 mins.

       jt8

      Never put off until tomorrow what you can do the day after tomorrow. -- Mark Twain

  3. Yogi | Jul 06, 2005 07:19pm | #4

    I bought a $160 dw a year ago for a rental-  Your description of the $800 model matches my cheapie- 

  4. cadiddlehopper | Jul 06, 2005 07:32pm | #5

    PaulB:

    Your posting is a classic!

    RoRo

  5. Shacko | Jul 06, 2005 11:23pm | #7

    Have you run  into pictograms yet?

    1. User avater
      PaulBinCT | Jul 07, 2005 03:44am | #9

      LOL... I read the thread about Toyota having to use pictograms to teach people to assemble cars.  Really truly frightening (and very sad).  But, on a related note, I think there should be a law that any engineer that signs off on an instruction manual first gives it to someone utterly without knowledge and watch to see if they can work through it.  Some are just horrendous, even if you know the field.

      1. JohnT8 | Jul 07, 2005 04:35pm | #11

        Wow, does Toyota still use people to assemble cars?  figured all the rice burners were assembled by Chinese robots.

         

        jt8

        In an underdeveloped country don't drink the water. In a developed country don't breathe the air --Jonathan Raban

        Edited 7/7/2005 11:51 am ET by JohnT8

      2. User avater
        CapnMac | Jul 07, 2005 07:34pm | #12

        signs off on an instruction manual first gives it to someone utterly without knowledge

        Well, too many already do.  They take an engineer, who has spent a life learning to communicate with other engineers, and take the engineer's written note and give them to a tech writer.  A tech writer is somebody with a Lit or English degree who is very happy to not be serving fries. 

        Tech writers often do not know Els from Elbows.  They would hire the installation out.  The hired hands would have Els in the van; it'd be part of the price.

        So, the true test of the installation destructions would be to give them to, say, a framer, and see if that person can follow them.Occupational hazard of my occupation not being around (sorry Bubba)

      3. Shacko | Jul 07, 2005 10:19pm | #15

        I think they [The engineers?] that come up with pictograms should be required to use someone else's pictograms and see if they can work with them.  That should be punishment enought. Luck.

        1. BryanSayer | Jul 08, 2005 12:20am | #17

          Do you really think that REAL engineers would ever even look at the pictograms?

          1. Shacko | Jul 08, 2005 10:03pm | #27

            Just a fantasy of mine, I don't know what I'm thinking of.

  6. Don | Jul 06, 2005 11:28pm | #8

    Paul: My expensive Bosch also required an El. I agree - they shoulda thrown one in at the price you pay.

    Don

    The GlassMasterworks - If it scratches, I etch it!
  7. User avater
    jimmyk | Jul 07, 2005 03:59am | #10

    Our Whirlpool also required a 3/8" El...not included.

    Probably a stupid liability thing.

    1. Shacko | Jul 07, 2005 10:32pm | #16

      I would believe that it is a cost reason that the ell is not included with the washer.  When you figure they sell thousands  of washers deleting that ell can add up to mucho bucks.  It used to be that you got a sheet that said what was included, now you get a sheet that says what you have to provide!  Have a good one.

  8. User avater
    jhausch | Jul 07, 2005 07:58pm | #13

    I've installed two DW in the recent past and had the same experience. 

    For the one for my Dad, he bought it from HD.  The new one was dropped off and the old one taken away.  Sure enough, I needed that elbow.  When I went to the HD to get the rest of the parts for the install, they did not have that part in their poorly organized fittings section.  Anyhow, I went around back and we actuall saw his old DW sitting on a pile.  I climbed up and claimed the part needed and all went smoothly thereafter.

    For the one for Mom - well, I knew what parts to keep before putting the old DW to the curb :-).

    Dontcha just love all the room they give you to swing your wrench on that compression fitting under there . . .

  9. Rayvan986 | Jul 07, 2005 08:17pm | #14

    I'm not sure, but as I recall, the last Kenmore I installed came with the elbow (I think).

  10. Derr82 | Jul 08, 2005 04:56am | #18

    Not to sound like a know it all, but I've installed at least 2 dozen dishwashers, different price ranges and makes, and have yet to run into one that includes the el.  What I make sure to get a hold of before the install is a kit that can be bought at the big box that comes with a flex hose and the 3/8 el.

    1. User avater
      PaulBinCT | Jul 08, 2005 03:18pm | #19

      Well, you can bet I have a few in my fittings box now. I haven't installed as many as you but the first time I ran into this.  Besides, even if everyone does it, it still ain't right ;)

      PaulB

  11. User avater
    aimless | Jul 08, 2005 04:44pm | #20

    Kinda like the makers of computer printers. A computer printer is not a machine that can do anything else by itself - it must be hooked up to a computer to fulfill its function in life. Yet the cable which connects said printer to computer is not included. It doesn't matter that the cable is always the same, it must be purchased separately. 

    1. User avater
      CapnMac | Jul 08, 2005 06:49pm | #23

      It doesn't matter that the cable is always the same, it must be purchased separately. 

      Well, yes and no.  Back when a cable was supplied, it was either the wrong kind, or the wrong length, or both.  So, it's kind of an improvement (unless you need a 6m parallel cable for the legacy plotter, or the like).

      Besides, printer cables are one of the best things to convert to wireless.Occupational hazard of my occupation not being around (sorry Bubba)

      1. User avater
        aimless | Jul 08, 2005 07:31pm | #24

        I haven't bought a printer in over 5 years, so the wireless conversion has sort of passed me by....

        1. User avater
          EricPaulson | Jul 08, 2005 07:55pm | #25

          Just worked near two KA slide in ranges; the type with the flanges that rest on the counter and requires a piece of counter top filler in the back.

          Well, these also had "warming drawers". I don't think either ho knew it 'cause by the time I got there they were allready stuffed with ............stuff!!

          However, the drawer is boxed in, you CANNOT acess the rear leveling legs by removing the drawer and reaching to the back!! Genious I tell ya! And removing and replacing the drawer, ha!! I'm not even going there!

          Oh, almost forgot why I came here.............the range is designed for a MINIMUM countertop height of 36". You might be able to work with 35 5/8" on a good day and a perfectly flat and level floor............soooooooo, if by some chance you find your self in the situation of having added a second floor, or went a bit to heavy on the underlayment, or as in the case of the two I worked on, the cabinet installer did not open up the adjustable legs on the base cabs, AND you have an 1 1/4" stone top, you may very well be sunk. It won't work in a situation where the countertop is 35 3/8" on the left and the floor rises on the right.

          Remove the legs; still too high. Hacksaw, I modified the range right in front of the ho who stood there like a deer in headlights. I gave it to them straight and they said go ahead.

          I did not do the cab install and it was not my project. I have become the fire putter outer. The range sat there for over two weeks while others persisted in a state of denial or wishfullness thinking the countertop would magically elevate itself or the range might shrink in height! I had it in in less than a hour! Done!

          Biggest piece of poorly engineered crap I've seen in a while. Oh, but you could intall it on a countertop up to 37 3/4" high.............gee, that's usefull!

          Eric

           I Love A Hand That Meets My Own,

          With A Hold That Causes Some Sensation.

          [email protected]

        2. User avater
          CapnMac | Jul 08, 2005 07:58pm | #26

          I haven't bought a printer in over 5 years

          See, so you're the one keeping the periphreal makers from record profits <g>.

          And, if you did, you would not need a new cable, the one you have would be fine.

          Wireless printers are so very cool, though.  You get to put the printer someplace convenient (and near its supplies), rather than the first empty spot the 1m cable will reach from the back of your machine.Occupational hazard of my occupation not being around (sorry Bubba)

  12. steve | Jul 08, 2005 06:27pm | #21

    my feelings exactly, 1/2 inch npt on the inlet valve or what ever and we all use 3/8 compression supply lines?

     okay so a 3/8 compression inlet line would require a brass inlet valve instead of that cheesy little plastic thingy with a pipe thread

    so out of curiosity, how do you all hook up a dw hotwater line?

     i use a 3/8 SS flexhose with the pipe threaded elbow and 3/8 compression by 1/2 copper(sweat) ball valve at the other end

    caulking is not a piece of trim

  13. User avater
    maddog3 | Jul 08, 2005 06:32pm | #22

    Kitchenaid........

    wasn't one of their slogans.....

    " Kitchenaid --- for the way its made "

    "

Log in or create an account to post a comment.

Sign up Log in

Become a member and get full access to FineHomebuilding.com

Video Shorts

Categories

  • Business
  • Code Questions
  • Construction Techniques
  • Energy, Heating & Insulation
  • General Discussion
  • Help/Work Wanted
  • Photo Gallery
  • Reader Classified
  • Tools for Home Building

Discussion Forum

Recent Posts and Replies

  • |
  • |
  • |
  • |
  • |
  • |
View More Create Post

Up Next

Video Shorts

Featured Story

Custom Built-ins With Job-Site Tools

From building boxes and fitting face frames to installing doors and drawers, these techniques could be used for lots of cabinet projects.

Featured Video

A Modern California Home Wrapped in Rockwool Insulation for Energy Efficiency and Fire Resistance

The designer and builder of the 2018 Fine Homebuilding House detail why they chose mineral-wool batts and high-density boards for all of their insulation needs.

Related Stories

  • Podcast Episode 691: Replacing Vinyl Siding, Sloping Concrete, and Flat vs. Pitched Roofs
  • FHB Podcast Segment: Roofing on Commercial vs. Residential Buildings
  • Preservation and Renewal for a Classic
  • A Postwar Comeback

Highlights

Fine Homebuilding All Access
Fine Homebuilding Podcast
Tool Tech
Plus, get an extra 20% off with code GIFT20

"I have learned so much thanks to the searchable articles on the FHB website. I can confidently say that I expect to be a life-long subscriber." - M.K.

Get home building tips, offers, and expert advice in your inbox

Signing you up...

This site is protected by reCAPTCHA and the Google Privacy Policy and Terms of Service apply.
See all newsletters
See all newsletters

Fine Homebuilding Magazine

  • Issue 332 - July 2025
    • Custom Built-ins With Job-Site Tools
    • Fight House Fires Through Design
    • Making the Move to Multifamily
  • Issue 331 - June 2025
    • A More Resilient Roof
    • Tool Test: You Need a Drywall Sander
    • Ducted vs. Ductless Heat Pumps
  • Issue 330 - April/May 2025
    • Deck Details for Durability
    • FAQs on HPWHs
    • 10 Tips for a Long-Lasting Paint Job
  • Issue 329 - Feb/Mar 2025
    • Smart Foundation for a Small Addition
    • A Kominka Comes West
    • Making Small Kitchens Work
  • Issue 328 - Dec/Jan 2025
    • How a Pro Replaces Columns
    • Passive House 3.0
    • Tool Test: Compact Line Lasers

Fine Home Building

Newsletter Sign-up

  • Fine Homebuilding

    Home building tips, offers, and expert advice in your inbox.

  • Green Building Advisor

    Building science and energy efficiency advice, plus special offers, in your inbox.

  • Old House Journal

    Repair, renovation, and restoration tips, plus special offers, in your inbox.

Signing you up...

This site is protected by reCAPTCHA and the Google Privacy Policy and Terms of Service apply.
See all newsletters

Follow

  • Fine Homebuilding

    Dig into cutting-edge approaches and decades of proven solutions with total access to our experts and tradespeople.

    Start Free Trial Now
    • Facebook
    • Instagram
    • X
    • LinkedIn
  • GBA Prime

    Get instant access to the latest developments in green building, research, and reports from the field.

    Start Free Trial Now
    • Facebook
    • YouTube
  • Old House Journal

    Learn how to restore, repair, update, and decorate your home.

    Subscribe Now
    • Facebook
    • Instagram
    • X
  • Fine Homebuilding

    Dig into cutting-edge approaches and decades of proven solutions with total access to our experts and tradespeople.

    Start Free Trial Now
    • Facebook
    • Instagram
    • X
    • LinkedIn
  • GBA Prime

    Get instant access to the latest developments in green building, research, and reports from the field.

    Start Free Trial Now
    • Facebook
    • YouTube
  • Old House Journal

    Learn how to restore, repair, update, and decorate your home.

    Subscribe Now
    • Facebook
    • Instagram
    • X

Membership & Magazine

  • Online Archive
  • Start Free Trial
  • Magazine Subscription
  • Magazine Renewal
  • Gift a Subscription
  • Customer Support
  • Privacy Preferences
  • About
  • Contact
  • Advertise
  • Careers
  • Terms of Use
  • Site Map
  • Do not sell or share my information
  • Privacy Policy
  • Accessibility
  • California Privacy Rights

© 2025 Active Interest Media. All rights reserved.

Fine Homebuilding receives a commission for items purchased through links on this site, including Amazon Associates and other affiliate advertising programs.

  • Home Group
  • Antique Trader
  • Arts & Crafts Homes
  • Bank Note Reporter
  • Cabin Life
  • Cuisine at Home
  • Fine Gardening
  • Fine Woodworking
  • Green Building Advisor
  • Garden Gate
  • Horticulture
  • Keep Craft Alive
  • Log Home Living
  • Military Trader/Vehicles
  • Numismatic News
  • Numismaster
  • Old Cars Weekly
  • Old House Journal
  • Period Homes
  • Popular Woodworking
  • Script
  • ShopNotes
  • Sports Collectors Digest
  • Threads
  • Timber Home Living
  • Traditional Building
  • Woodsmith
  • World Coin News
  • Writer's Digest
Active Interest Media logo
X
X
This is a dialog window which overlays the main content of the page. The modal window is a 'site map' of the most critical areas of the site. Pressing the Escape (ESC) button will close the modal and bring you back to where you were on the page.

Main Menu

  • How-To
  • Design
  • Tools & Materials
  • Video
  • Blogs
  • Forum
  • Project Guides
  • Reader Projects
  • Magazine
  • Members
  • FHB House

Podcasts

  • FHB Podcast
  • ProTalk

Webinars

  • Upcoming and On-Demand

Podcasts

  • FHB Podcast
  • ProTalk

Webinars

  • Upcoming and On-Demand

Popular Topics

  • Kitchens
  • Business
  • Bedrooms
  • Roofs
  • Architecture and Design
  • Green Building
  • Decks
  • Framing
  • Safety
  • Remodeling
  • Bathrooms
  • Windows
  • Tilework
  • Ceilings
  • HVAC

Magazine

  • Current Issue
  • Past Issues
  • Magazine Index
  • Subscribe
  • Online Archive
  • Author Guidelines

All Access

  • Member Home
  • Start Free Trial
  • Gift Membership

Online Learning

  • Courses
  • Project Guides
  • Reader Projects
  • Podcast

More

  • FHB Ambassadors
  • FHB House
  • Customer Support

Account

  • Log In
  • Join

Newsletter

Get home building tips, offers, and expert advice in your inbox

Signing you up...

This site is protected by reCAPTCHA and the Google Privacy Policy and Terms of Service apply.
See all newsletters
See all newsletters

Follow

  • X
  • YouTube
  • instagram
  • facebook
  • pinterest
  • Tiktok

Join All Access

Become a member and get instant access to thousands of videos, how-tos, tool reviews, and design features.

Start Your Free Trial

Subscribe

FHB Magazine

Start your subscription today and save up to 70%

Subscribe

Enjoy unlimited access to Fine Homebuilding. Join Now

Already a member? Log in

We hope you’ve enjoyed your free articles. To keep reading, become a member today.

Get complete site access to expert advice, how-to videos, Code Check, and more, plus the print magazine.

Start your FREE trial

Already a member? Log in

Privacy Policy Update

We use cookies, pixels, script and other tracking technologies to analyze and improve our service, to improve and personalize content, and for advertising to you. We also share information about your use of our site with third-party social media, advertising and analytics partners. You can view our Privacy Policy here and our Terms of Use here.

Cookies

Analytics

These cookies help us track site metrics to improve our sites and provide a better user experience.

Advertising/Social Media

These cookies are used to serve advertisements aligned with your interests.

Essential

These cookies are required to provide basic functions like page navigation and access to secure areas of the website.

Delete My Data

Delete all cookies and associated data