Just curious as to how feasible it might be to power a framing nailer off compressed CO2. Not – NOT – in the context of production framing.
Kind of wondering how many nails a fire extinguisher-sized tank might shoot.
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Like this?
http://www.jacpacco2.com/
Similar in concept, sure. I read a number of threads in the archives in which guys describe using tanks of various sizes. It seems that 20 lb tanks refilled at welding shops is a convenient way to power to a FINISH nailer. We do a lot of jobs that I'd say qualify as 'super' light - like small enough that I had time deciding whether to break out the compressor. Personally, I think that a Paslode impulse would be a good solution. But then, I'm not buying one. The boss isn't buying one. So - nope.I guess it would come in handy for punch list work, too.
Edited 3/3/2009 9:04 pm ET by Biff_Loman
Personally, I think that a Paslode impulse would be a good solution. But then, I'm not buying one. The boss isn't buying one.
I found a Paslode impulse framer when Home Depot's rental department put one of theirs up for sale. I bought it, the battery, charger, safety glasses, and its case for $150. It hasn't missed a beat.... Then, Lowes closed out their 6 cylinder boxes of framer fuel cells for $10 a box, which made it even more a bargain to use. After that find, one Friday morning, I was at a garage sale...There sat four unopened boxes, and one box more than 3/4 full of 3"x .120 round heads nails. I paid $70 for all of them.... Sure helped me keep my material costs low....
It weighs about 8lbs and can get a bit bulky in tight places. For sure, the arm on which you have your trigger finger will get stronger and bigger lifting it.... ;>)
I used mine on a two story 16'x32' gambrel roof shed. It kept me from buying a compressor... Just start looking around for those closeouts as good building weather is coming soon.
Bill
first off the jacpac and sim are liquid CO2 which is a huge difference from gas volume.
Using compressed CO2 in a fire-ext bottle won't get you any further than using compressed air in that same bottle.
You can run anything air powered off of liquid CO2 bottles... for how long is determined by the consumption rate. Framing nailers use a lot more volume than a trim nailer. So yes, if the pressue is set right you can drive a framing nailer from a liquid CO2 jacpac & sim bottle but don't expect to get much out of the bottle.
You can run anything air powered off of liquid CO2 bottles... for how long is determined by the consumption rate. Framing nailers use a lot more volume than a trim nailer. So yes, if the pressue is set right you can drive a framing nailer from a liquid CO2 jacpac & sim bottle but don't expect to get much out of the bottle.
We had liquid CO2 for the MIG welding guns where I used to work. The bottle had a huge volume, but very low pressure, on the order of 15psi. Compressed CO2 will have a smaller volume, but a pressure up to 2000psi.
Edited 3/4/2009 12:02 pm ET by McMark
You are COMPLETELY WRONG!!The concept behind CO2 and air tools is that you store a great amount of energy by using LIQUID CO2 which gases off into CO2 gas that the tool uses comparably to compressed air.
My MIG welder and gas mixture right now currently show tank pressure of 1800psi. The regulator is a low pressure regulator that is set around 10-20psi.My Powertank (http://www.powertank.com) CO2 setup is empty at the moment, however the tank pressure is usually around 2000psi at full fill and the regulator is adjustable from 5psi to 250psi.I have used the Powertank for all air tools, framing and finish nailers, and airing up tires on my Land Cruiser.The only detriment that I have found using CO2 for compressed air tools is that at high flow rates the CO2 gas is very cold and if you are not using a good, synthetic based tool lubricant then you can have problems.Furthermore, I have had lots of experience with fire SCBA equipment and can emphatically claim that there is a HUGE difference between 2200psi of compressed air vs. 2000psi of liquid CO2.
well you could've been a little bit more diplomatic about it.
Yeah - sorry for that. Sitting inside watching a blizzard and not getting any work done today has made me a little angry this morning.Just wanted to clear up the misinformation about this topic. Sorry to be so blatantly rude.
no sweat
snow? Dimaond Valley NV? WTH is that? Google Maps shows just a bunch of irrigation pivots. Lost enough money in Wendover to warrant free rooms for a few nights in a row.
eta: some interesting reading re: CO2 @ http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carbon_dioxide
Edited 3/4/2009 2:23 pm ET by john7g
Furthermore, I have had lots of experience with fire SCBA equipment and can emphatically claim that there is a HUGE difference between 2200psi of compressed air vs. 2000psi of liquid CO2.
I'm thinking that if you used LCO2 in your SCBA, you'd end up dead. I checked, and the pressure of the LCO2 system is about 720pounds.
How long has it been since your CO2 tank was filled? At initial fill on a 20lb cylinder and dependant upon environmental conditions, 1800-2000psi is about what my regulator shows as tank pressure. Above that, there is probably a safety that would pop off.Pretty sure the fill station compressor at the firehouse isn't pumping straight CO2 into the SCBA tanks. We have tried using old tanks that don't meet current standards for airing up tires and running air tools - there is just not enough stored energy to make it worth while. Plus, not many people have access to a 2200-4500 psi compressor, unless they own a dive shop or illegally use VFD equipment...
How long has it been since your CO2 tank was filled? At initial fill on a 20lb cylinder and dependant upon environmental conditions, 1800-2000psi is about what my regulator shows as tank pressure. Above that, there is probably a safety that would pop off.
Is your system liquid or not? 1800 to 200 psi is standard for compressed gasses, such as CO2, N2, O2, etc. CO2 does not have to be liquid, most CO2 tanks are compressed gas, and not liquid CO2.
Yes it is liquid. The regulator reads tank pressure(gas) and line pressure. It is placed on the scale when filled so that a net of around 20lbs of liquid CO2 is filled. When you are getting low on liquid the tank pressure falls and at the very end you will be running on gas only. This may work for nailers but not air tools like impacts.A lot of small welding supply shops won't fill your tank on the spot but will wait until they have a couple to fill because of the line losses and escaped gas associated with filling the tanks.Go to http://www.powertank.com look at the offroad packages. The 10lb black tank and regulator is the setup I have. I also bought an aluminum 20lb cylinder from Norco that I refill or trade-in. When I bought the system they were only into the offroad and 4x4 market, the construction products are new to me.The FAQ section at Powertank's site explains all this in a much more succinct fashion.
Edited 3/4/2009 4:47 pm by Haystax
I have done a lot with CO2 and Nitrous. Both are very similar and have a similar vapor pressure. A tank has liquid in it until it is virtually empty and the pressure will not change that much until the last drop of liquid is gone. Until that point it is actually a pretty accurate thermometer. The pressure will be directly proportional to the temperature of the liquid in the tank. When it gets frosty the pressure will drop but come right back up when it warms up.http://www.s-ohe.com/carbon%20dioxide.htmlIf you are seeing 2000 psi in a CO2 tank ... RUN! You are trying to compress a liquidThe test pressure of your typical CO2 tank is only 1800 PSI. The popoff is lower than that. It should cruise in the 500-600 range, depending on the temperature.
Maybe just get an air tank? I have one but only have ever used it with a trim gun... Framers use a lot of air.
I've done small jobs running a framing nailer off of a SCUBA tank.
An adapter to hook an air tool regulator to the BC whip cost about $15, and one tank is good for a few hundred nails.
Works well.
Amateurs talk strategy, Generals talk logistics.
Few hundred, eh? It's worth a thought.
Biff
I've tried to use my JacPac to run my Bostich N88RH and I would get about 25 shots out of a larger paint ball bottle. I would say it's not worth it without a much bigger bottle.
How about that big chunk of sculpted steel on your hip, you know, the one with the long handle. I've heard that it is possible to use it to actually drive a nail into wood. Not that I would know from personal experience. :-)
Well, I was thinking of a large bottle, like something the size of a scuba tank. ;-) I usually do hand-nail.
A 20 pound BevCo CO2 bottle will last you for a very long time if you are just running a finish nailer. I used mine for all the trim in a kitchen, dining room and living room. Shot hundred of brads and the tank was still very heavy. I couldn't really tell the difference.
Neat. Yeah, it'd nice for that, too. Now the question is how much more air a framing nailer uses.