Replies

1. 
   draftingguy | Aug 06, 2008 06:46pm | #1

   No.  16d sinkers are 0.148"x3.25", while 16d commons are 0.162"x3.5".

1. 
   blownonfuel | Aug 06, 2008 07:13pm | #2

   Thanks Dg. Are both acceptable per code? I now code states end nailing studs to sole plates with two 16d's but which one, sinker or common?

1. 
   draftingguy | Aug 06, 2008 09:27pm | #3

   It depends upon the code you're using.

   The 2003 IRC is a little vague (a footnote to table R602.3(1) says that all nails are smooth-common, box, or deformed shanks except where noted).

   The 2006 IBC is a lot clearer - it specifies that all 16d nails are commons, even including the shank diameter and length.  It also offers alternative nailing for typical gun nail sizes (like .131"x3").  For end nailing studs, you can either use 2-16d commons or 3-.131"x3".

   I guess you'll have to ask your inspector.

1. 
   blownonfuel | Aug 06, 2008 09:33pm | #4

   Thanks Dg.

2. 
   GregT | Aug 07, 2008 04:35am | #13

   I'm not a wood guy so seeing a requirement for THREE gun nails in the end of a stud was a surprise to me.  In my limited experience the more nails I shoot the more splitting occurs and the weaker the connection is.  At the risk of sounding like a dumb @ss, Is there a "trick" to nailing without splitting the #### out of wood.  My wood comes from a real yard with proper storage etc. not big box junk. 

   And is it just me or are the gun nails so much easier to pull than hand nailed coated 16d sinkers.

   Just trying to learn.

   GregT

1. 
   ANDYSZ2 | Aug 07, 2008 05:38am | #14

   I prefer ring shank .131 for the nailgun and Lowes only carries these in galvanized.

   They way hard to pull out even harder than sinkers.

   ANDYSZ2WHY DO I HAVE TO EXPLAIN TO FRIENDS AND FAMILY THAT BEING A SOLE PROPRIETOR IS A REAL JOB?

   REMODELER/PUNCHOUT SPECIALIST

    

2. 
   fingersandtoes | Aug 07, 2008 07:58am | #17

   It's not just you, gun nails are much easier to pull than hand nails. I never have a problem with gun nails splitting wood. They punch through in situations where hand nailing would split every time. Then again most of our framing lumber is soft spruce now. Fir was much brittler. Much stronger too.

2. 
   Jim_Allen | Aug 06, 2008 09:47pm | #5

   Sinkers are fine. In fact, two gun nails are fine. If not, they'll make you add some toenails which is easy enough if you fail inspection. Bob's next test date: 12/10/07

2. 
   Matt | Aug 06, 2008 10:53pm | #6

   Not trying to be rued but... you are over thinking this thing...

1. 
   Jim_Allen | Aug 06, 2008 11:08pm | #7

   Matt, I think he's got a valid question...especially if he doesn't know or hasn't worked out there in the real world with other crews. I've wondered myself why some codes specify 16d nails when everyone knows we shoot 3" .131's. Bob's next test date: 12/10/07

2. 
   blownonfuel | Aug 07, 2008 12:36am | #8

   I might be Matt but I want to be sure. No harm no foul.

1. 
   Matt | Aug 07, 2008 01:22am | #9

   True enough.

3. 
   draftingguy | Aug 07, 2008 01:39am | #10

   I would definitely agree with Jim.  While we're absolutely splitting hairs in this discussion, it's still a valid one.

   Even if we're all well aware of how things are normally done, it's still a good idea to know how the code technically requires that they be done.

   Have I ever seen someone framing with 16d commons instead of vinyl coated sinkers or "16d" gun nails?  No.  Have I ever seen an inspector ask someone to prove which type of nail they used in their now-concealed plate to stud end nail connection?  No.  Is it still worthwhile to know the requirement, if only to be able to debate the issue with the inspector?  Yep. 

1. 
   fingersandtoes | Aug 07, 2008 03:04am | #11

   For some reason our code specifies 3 1/4" long framing nails, which makes built-up beams much harder to assemble and has cost me a number of torn shirts and scars. I use 3" and so far no one but you guys knows. 

1. 
   Jim_Allen | Aug 07, 2008 04:21am | #12

   LOL...thats funny. I'd do the same thing. If I got caught, I'd just go back and renail. Bob's next test date: 12/10/07

1. 
   fingersandtoes | Aug 07, 2008 08:02am | #18

   Since I'm unburdening myself: I often lower my circular saw by the cord. Not my new one, but yeah I do it with the old one all the time.

   I feel better now.

2. 
   Jim_Allen | Aug 07, 2008 03:28pm | #19

   Okay....I'll unburden too. I ALWAYS use my cord to lower the saw off a roof. Sometimes I hook the nail gun and stapler on it. Often, it doesn't reach the bottom and I have to drop it the rest of the way. I had to do that last week. It only had to drop three or four feet LOL. Bob's next test date: 12/10/07

3. 
   JeffinPA | Aug 08, 2008 03:39am | #21

   Re. Lowering the saw.

   I did that today with my brand new Mil.

   Are you not supposed to?  I think I read somethere that the cord is actually a dual purpose instrument.

   re. Nails, we still use clip heads a lot around here.  I am pretty sure that clip heads are  not permitted by code but dont want to look for fear of not sleeping at nite.

   I think my next purchase is a full head framer.  I cringe at the thought of retiring my impulse.  I have not touched my compressor since the last roof job 6 weeks ago.

4. 
   Jim_Allen | Aug 08, 2008 05:39am | #22

   I pull my cord out of wall sockets too by yanking on them from several feet away! Bob's next test date: 12/10/07

5. 
   JeffinPA | Aug 08, 2008 01:29pm | #25

   Again, a perfectly acceptable way of removing your cords from outlets.

   I hope I am helping with your cleeansing of the soul.

6. 
   fingersandtoes | Aug 08, 2008 07:01am | #23

   A few years ago  there were stern letters sent to FHB when it published pictures of a carpenter lowering his saw by the cord. The implication was that it somehow equated to poor workmanship and corners cut. I remember thinking: Sure I sometimes lower my saw and forget to oil my nailer, but I bet my houses are just as nice as theirs. Loosen up and live a bit.

7. 
   JeffinPA | Aug 08, 2008 01:41pm | #26

   Yep.  We all do things that they tell you not to do.  If we played by every rule, we would have a hard time making a living.

   I have a few simple rules that I am an absolute Bit*h about.

   If you pull a piece of wood, take the time to bend the nails over, pull em out if you are re-using or chuck it in the dumpster.

   Keep the place clean and reasonably organized.

    

   Those two basics and having the right tools for thejob keep us pretty safe and that is the most important thing.

    

8. 
   Jim_Allen | Aug 08, 2008 08:21pm | #27

   "If you pull a piece of wood, take the time to bend the nails over, pull em out if you are re-using or chuck it in the dumpster."That was my fast and hard rule too. But....don't bend any over in the middle of the board. Don't throw anything longer than 12" into the scrap pile. Don't leave the lumber scattered around...lean it against the sidewalls so I don't have to bend so far to pick it up. Bending bad....leaning lumber good. Bob's next test date: 12/10/07

2. 
   draftingguy | Aug 07, 2008 06:24pm | #20

   Of the "secrets" to reveal in a discussion group, I don't think that one will come back to bite you too hard.

1. 
   fingersandtoes | Aug 08, 2008 07:03am | #24

   Really? I thought it was a pretty risque admission for a Canadian.

3. 
   MiCrazy | Aug 07, 2008 05:38am | #15

   Although not codes,  evaluation reports make for some good reading.

   There's some good information regarding making connections with nails in NER 272.

   http://www.icc-es.org/reports/pdf_files/NES/Ner272.pdf

4. 
   popawheelie | Aug 07, 2008 06:58am | #16

   When I was wood framing in So Cal for a company doing hospital remodels the inspector said the sinkers we were using didn't pass code.

   I can't remember what happened. But he (the inspector ) didn't last long.

   I sure like sinkers. Couldn't imagine pounding commons all day.