code for 2-riser outside stair to patio
I recently built some stairs to go from my new sliding glass door to the soon-to-be-built brick patio. The stairs are 8′ wide (the width of the sliding plus fixed panel of the door) and the drop from the house floor to the patio will be 13″. The stairs have two steps, each with a 6.5″ rise. The tread will be two 2×6 redwood boards with approx a 1/8″ gap between them.
The building inspector said the stairs require a 36″ landing for the first step (otherwise, it appears to be OK). I thought under the IRC, that for only two riser stairs, that a top landing isn’t needed. Of course, this is California and I have no idea how they mixed and matched the IRC and local codes to come up with the California Building Code for residential. Can anyone help me out here? I could drive over to the U.C. Architectural Library on campus and look at the code, but that will blow the better part of the day and I am a bit pressed for time at present.
Thanks
Replies
Can't say for your area but I know in New Brunswick Canada it is code for commercial applications. I did a car dealership years ago and the steps going to the showroom from outside required a landing and I almost think it was 4'. At the time we thought it was a bit excessive for two steps but it is what it is.
I wouldn't be surprised if the same thing applies in your area.
Gary
Casey,
While some things have changed here, I'm pretty sure the 36" landing is still required in CA. If you end up at the library, it's in chapter 10 of the code.
Unless you want to fight the inspector, I suggest you build a landing.
Solar & Super-Insulated Healthy Homes
I would normally say that; however, having a 36" "porch" and a small brick patio completely changes the aesthetics over having unobtrusive stairs and a patio that is two feet wider. I may have to rethink things. I was just reading the "Code Check" Egress section on Doors and Landings. For the IRC, they give the following: "Floor or landing each side of all exterior doors EXC 2 risers OK at exterior door that is not req"d exit [311.4.3X]". If the same IRC provision was included as part of the Calif building code, I don't see why my stairs would not qualify.
Is it a required exit? (ie: only egress from a bedroom?)Steve
Here, NC, you would have room for a "discussion." Not sure about CA, but homeowners here can also apply for certain codes to waived.Another option is to make a "removeable" landing that disappears after the CO, and "reappears if you sell the place. There could be a liability issue in that, though.Here's the 2002 addendasame file, different sizes Winterlude, Winterlude, my little daisy,
Winterlude by the telephone wire,
Winterlude, it's makin' me lazy,
Come on, sit by the logs in the fire.
The moonlight reflects from the window
Where the snowflakes, they cover the sand.
Come out tonight, ev'rything will be tight,
Winterlude, this dude thinks you're grand.
Notice that those sentences in your code reference are underlined...
I've seen troubles, ha! Winterlude, Winterlude, my little daisy,
Winterlude by the telephone wire,
Winterlude, it's makin' me lazy,
Come on, sit by the logs in the fire.
The moonlight reflects from the window
Where the snowflakes, they cover the sand.
Come out tonight, ev'rything will be tight,
Winterlude, this dude thinks you're grand.
My thought - as confirmed by Snort's code reference is that the landing is only required outside an egress door. Is the front door of the house not 3' wide? I have no idea as to what is required in Calif though.
There is a front door with a 42" landing (i.e. a porch) and the back door to the garage. The patio slider was just added, so I can't imagine that it would be classified as a required door.
No landing would be required in MI. I don't know about here in TX.
Bob's next test date: 12/10/07
I just drove the 40+ miles to go talk to one of the staff at the county planning office (let's see, with diesel as $3.99/gal and 17mpg that comes to...)
After many photocopied pages with sentences highlighted in yellow (and my convincing the staff member that the 2-riser stair to the patio is really an exterior stair...) the answer appears to be for a residence that a landing is required which must be the width of the door (up to 48") and 36" in the direction of travel. However, the landing can be either at the level of the interior floor or up to 7.75" below the level of the floor. But a Calif. code does not appear to allow a regular 11" step at the level of the floor (even though that seems to me to make a lot more sense than having a 7.75 step down...).
According to "Code Check", the IRC allows a 2-riser stair on a residence. California code supposedly follows the IRC for residential - except when it doesn't, as in this case...
So, I guess my patio will become two feet narrower and my top step two feet wider...
for no apperent reason.
Sounds like cal. has some funny interpretations.
They don't want the step right up at the threshold level as it can cause water intrusion problems.
Not quite sure I follow you here. The difference between a step and a landing is that the landing, as described by the code, has to be 36" in the direction of travel. The step would be about 11" in the direction of travel. Other than that, the construction details could be the same. For either the landing and the step at the level of the interior floor, it calls for it to be at the level of the floor; however, I typically would drop either down about 1/2" from the level of the interior floor (although technically from the specific wording of the code, this could be considered as not meeting the code) and leave a 1/2" or so of a gap between between it and the wall of the house. My problem with the landing being 7.75" below the inside floor at the sliding glass door is that you would have to step on the track that guides the bottom of the sliding door in order to step down. I think a step on the outside of the house would be safer in that it would allow you to step over the track before you stepped down to a landing or the ground. As I think I mentioned, the current IRC model code appears to allow the step for residential construction while the current Calif. code does not.
Maybe I misunderstood your previous post. Code aside, the fact that you put a 1/2" gap between the door threshold and the step is a really good thing. OTOH, I nearly always have a step down of at least 3.5 or 4" directly outside an exterior door. Even with the gap, if the exterior level is right up to the interior floor level the splash up from rain hitting step or landing and then the door I believe is problematic. Doors are basically weather resistant - not water proof, like a boat. Once you have had a few callbacks (or just plain repair requests) for water leaking doors and rotten exterior door components or interior floor, you tend to look at things a little differently. I don't know - maybe it doesn't rain that much where this building is going on.... The only times I put a landing or step right up to the level of interior floor is if the entry is fully under roof (but usually not even then), or there is a door that must swing out in which case it would be a landing. One possible exception to all this is when you are doing ADA accessible construction. Further I'm not sure I agree with your statement that having a step directly outside a door causes one to step on the threshold. Also, an exterior surface 1" lower than interior floor level, for example, is more of what I call a "trip" then a step. For whatever it's worth, since I manage the construction of a number of homes each year this is a decision that I consciously make on a regular basis.
None the less, obviously you have to do what your local code officials want. Even it is in a over-regulated "people's republic". :-) The fact is that on very rare occasions I have had to do what a code official wanted, and then after the building was complete, rework to what I felt sure was right...
BTW - I'm a little confused. You talk about building in Calif and your profile says you live in Oregon....
I have owned a house in Calif. that I lived in for a few years and then rented out when I moved to Oregon in 1995 and found that it was worth less than my mortgage. I decided last year to fix it up and sell it so that I would have enough money to build in Oregon, only to have again hit a collapsing housing market - there are about thirty houses like mine in a little development just north of Berkeley, CA. Nine months ago, they were selling for $500,000+, the last house that was listed two doors down from mine has a price of $349,000 and I doubt that anyone has even looked at it during the several months it has been on the market. If the step outside the house is 7.75", I would find it a bit awkward to step down to that level from behind the threshold of the sliding glass door, although I guess it could certainly be done. The other thing is that if this were an interior 2-riser stair, say into the garage, then it is allowed by California code. Since it is outside under a 3 ft overhang of the roof, it is not allowed.