Replies

1. 
   Davo_ | May 02, 2001 05:05am | #1

   *
   Hi Terry.

   It's not right. Take a look at an extra box that was not installed. When you say blue, I imagine you mean the blue colored plastic boxes that have either a nail or screw attached to them which is driven into a stud for installation purposes. Normally, on the side of these boxes are little "hash" marks engraved into the box. These marks are depth adjustment marks; which allow the installer to use as a depth gage when installing these boxes. The hash marks lets the installer know how far forward to hold the box off the stud when fastening the box to the stud.

   In other words, boxes are to be installed flush with the drywall or with whatever finish material is to be used. Since you were going to have 3/4 inch thick granite overtop the drywall, your boxes should have been installed so as to be flush with the granite.

   Longer screws by themselves will not "cut the mustard." If the boxes were to remain only 1/4 inch shy, this would not have posed too much of a problem, but 1/4 inch plus 3/4 inch ( 1 inch difference overall) is too much. The receptacle will not be fully housed within a box with this big of a difference. If the boxes cannot be changed over, then metal inserts will have to be used. These inserts mount inside the existing box but give the box added depth. Longer screws come with these inserts; which is the easiest way to go if the drywall is already in place.

   Question.....Did your installer know in ADVANCE about the granite backsplashes before he installed your electrical boxes? If this was a late change-order type thing, then don't blame your electrician. Also, did the electrician know what drywall thickness you were having installed? I ask this because I'm just guesssing that maybe he set the boxes a "hair" shy of the 1/2 inch drywall marks so as to not cause any problems for the drywallers, and instead the drywallers used 5/8 drywall, which might have contributed to the current 1/4 inch setback.

   Davo.

1. 
   terry_smith | May 02, 2001 06:05am | #2

   *The electrician was told about the granite when he started-- I guess he forgot. The drywall that was hung was 1/2". The dry wall is in place. Are the metal inserts "code"?

1. 
   lonecat | May 02, 2001 06:35am | #3

   *Since this is such a common error, the cheap blue box folks make a blue plastic insert. They sell a lot of them at HD/Lowes.

1. 
   Mongo_ | May 02, 2001 06:44am | #4

   *I've seen the plastic ones, which sit right on the face of the existing box...they come in various depths in 1/4" increments. They do seem to be more rigid than the metal ones which are designed to slide inside the existing box and are adjustable in depth.Terry, the box extenders do meet code, but some locales do take exception. Are they good out on Foxboro Point? Your building officer can tell you that.

1. 
   Jeff_Clarke_ | May 02, 2001 07:17am | #5

   *For the future - why mess with this at all? The blue box people make a screwdriver-adjustable in-out box - you set the box and dial it "in" or "out" with a driver-drill to get it flush with the finish. THAT'S the one to use for this application.Jeff

2. 
   SamD_ | May 02, 2001 02:31pm | #6

   *Yeah, what Jeff said....Whenever I'm messing around with kitchens or baths, I make a point of installing those adjustable boxes- right from the git-go. Saves a lot of pain when changes come up or it's uncertain what the final accouterments will be.... Well worth the added cost. Sam

3. 
   terry_smith | May 02, 2001 04:19pm | #7

   *Thanks for your help. I'm glad I have an alternative to making these guys tear out the drywall and reset the boxes.

4. 
   Francis_Voignier | May 02, 2001 04:41pm | #8

   *What about box extensions?fv

5. 
   IBEW_Barry | May 03, 2001 06:36am | #9

   *Terry, You asked what the code calls for.In walls made of non-combustible materials boxes shall not be set back of the finished surface more than a quarter of an inch,in combustible walls boxes shall be flush with the finished surface.[NEC 370-20].Is this easy to do? Not always. Did your guy do a crappy job? Yep. About boxes(I've used thousands),may I remind everyone that this site is about FINE homebuilding?Throw those plastic pieces of s--t in the dumpster and use the metal ones.In this case a 4" square box nailed to the face of the stud with an inch and a quarter plaster ring would have been the professional way to go.Would they let you use plastic outlet boxes to wire a new video store? Nowhere in America.Should you be safer renting a video than sleeping in your own home?No, no way. Safe the 50 cents a box somewhere else when you're building.

6. 
   Davo_ | May 03, 2001 07:06am | #10

   *Ditto Barry. I too like metal boxes. However, they are getting harder to find at your local hardware and lumber type stores. Plastic is definately being "pushed" by these type of stores. Ditto with Jeff on the adjustable boxes too. They do make life simpler when it comes to depth adjustments. I certainly like em! Hey Barry, do they make an adjustable type box in metal? The only ones I have come across were the plastic kind. At my 2 local electric supply stores (one being Graybar Electric, other just a home - grown variety), neither of them are yet carrying the adjustable boxes. I had to buy them a Lowes (a dirty word.)Terry, Ditto on what Mongo said. In my area, box extenders are acceptacle. Are they acceptable where you live?......I don't know. First impression would be "Yes," but, you better check with someone "official."Davo.

7. 
   Jeff_Clarke_ | May 03, 2001 01:43pm | #11

   *No, they don't make some of the same types of boxes in galvanized, in fact Steel City and some of the others have discontinued some of the ones I like best (old work side clamp type for thick plaster, in particular).I should say that I agree with Barry, I generally dislike plastic boxes and prefer the 'real thing' especially for cable clamps. But plastic boxes have come a long way, offer volume that in some cases isn't available in some galvanized boxes and some applications (like the adjustable) that work pretty well. I've come to accept that we will see both in use for a long time.Jeff

8. 
   Grace_Crane | May 09, 2001 06:57pm | #12

   *Terry, you say the electrician was "told" about the granite?! If it is not in writing, it didn't happen. In this case, he didn't hear you. If he did, there were too many other things for him to remember. It needs to be in writing to have half a chance of being put in right.

2. 
   terry_smith | May 09, 2001 06:57pm | #13

   *
   I'm not sure but I think that the electrician I hired set the "blue" electrical boxes wrong and not up to code because when the drywallers came in after him, the boxes are sunk back about 1/4 inch from the drywall. I am going to have granite go over parts of these outlets as a back splash which will make them sunk back in the wall another 3/4 inch. The electrician said he will just use longer screws for the finish work. This does not seem right to me. Does anyone know what the code calls for???