Hey guys…
The boys down here in sunny Florida are confusing me with some terminology…
We are framing out an 18″ deep, 18″ high continuous box around the ceiling perimeter. Basically what I would call a soffit or drop soffit.
They are calling this perimeter boxed ceiling a coffered ceiling.
Is this a commonly accepted term for this type of structural detail? Kind of like considering the entire ceiling as a single, large decorative recessed panel?
Let me know.
Thanks guys.
From building boxes and fitting face frames to installing doors and drawers, these techniques could be used for lots of cabinet projects.
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Replies
I think you are more on track, when someone says coffered to me I would think of multiples, junctions and good pay.
Think about the bidding problems with mixing those up.
I think you are more on track, when someone says coffered to me I would think of multiples, junctions and good pay.
Not according to the tract home builders here.
Whenever they have coffered ceiling on the feature sheet, you get what petmonkey described.
Areound here, the ceiling you describe is called a trey ceiling. A coffered ceiling is one with more of a a grid work.
Now that you're there, How is Florida treating you anyway?
"Now that you're there, How is Florida treating you anyway?"Well Robert, Florida is, umm.... interesting.licensing is a pain, and the framing is quick n dirty with more metal connectors than most steel buildings!But the weather is great and there's no mud!! Ya hear me? No mud.... ever. It's just wet sand. Now THAT is a beautiful thing.Thanks for asking :)
Everyone around here uses the terms interchangeably. A tray to one guy is a coffer to the next guy. As soon as the subject comes up, I ask them to sketch what they want. That's the only way I know to eliminate any misunderstandings.
Goals are deceptive. The unaimed arrow never misses.
In doing restorations, the two terms are very different. A trey ceiling is a single unit, akin to a cathedral ceiling except that the broad center portion is flat rather than peaked. The transition can be coved or flat, and it may or may not have an open soffit around it.
A coffered ceiling, as already described, is the grid pattern, with the degree of detail varying.
Developers today use terms for marketing more than building. Since buyers have no idea what they're buying, they use the word that they think will bring them most money on the sale. Of course, they may not know the right term, since these get all muddied nowadays. It's rare to build a coffered ceiling anymore, since they are much more expensive than any other. But it sounds great in the real estate listing and the sales pitch.
SHG
Everyone around here uses the terms interchangeably. A tray to one guy is a coffer to the next guy
LoL!
Heard from another room on a job site: "Howc'm it's a trey ceilin' iffin it's only got two parts . . . ?"
Heard also of a coffin-ated ceiling.
The way I learned it, a coffered uses a surrounding soffit with the main surface hung from ceiling joists resting on the top plate. A tray ceiling was any flat ceiling using joists part way up rafters (a la collar ties as ceiling joists). As that looked like an upside-down tray, thus the name. That would be true for either a sloped juction or for a soffit "squaring up" the joint. (I like the latter, as it's the only place to run mechanicals left, usually.)Occupational hazard of my occupation not being around (sorry Bubba)
Sand? You'll learn to hate that as much as mud.
Let me guess, Block shell. Inside partitions with single top and bottom plate. Trusses. Simple soffit/overhang treatment. Hangers and Hurricane clips everywhere.
Trey, coffer, the words are commonly synonymous. That may not be correct, but its common. The last ceiling I had to work on, which is like you described, was termed by the architect a "troffered" ceiling. Fancy words for a drop soffit.
Domesticated Ape,
The fact that the drop soffet goes all the way around the cieling makes the ceiling a coffered cieling.
SamT
"I hope we do not have to have a definition for each possible design of a ceiling height variation."
Hi Les...
It's no wonder that god destroyed the tower of babel. The carpenters couldn't agree on a common working language!
Before I posted my question, I too looked up the definition of coffered ceilings in several architectural sources. The commonality seemed to be "recessed, decorative, and panel."
Anyone would have a hard time convincing me that a 20 x 20 room enclosed by an 18" box around the perimeter consitutes recessed decorative panels. Like the second post said... imagine bidding a job for a simple framed rectangle and finding out they wanted a true coffered ceiling. oops.
A trimmer is a jack, but it will never be king.
I agree with you.
There's a big difference between a tray ceiling and a coffered ceiling. The terms shouldn't be interchangable.
Now if someone wants a tray ceiling for a coffered price....
Just gotta be careful its not the other way around.
Les
Now I know why they call it a coffered ceiling. A place to put money...cause its so expensive to build
BE well
andy
The secret of Zen in two words is, "Not always so"!
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I believe “coffer” originally described the ornamentation within any horizontal downward-facing recessed panel; it was a word used, especially in British monographs, to describe Baroque decorative excess. The recessed panels were a product of the leftover space between structural members before light frame and skin construction became popular, and had been around long before the word became widely used.
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I think the word has (de)evolved to mean any rectangular or polygonal close-top and close-sided recess in a downward facing, horizontal plane, decorated or not. They occur in ceilings, soffits, cornices, etc. I don’t think its definition depends on numbers or grouping—for example, I think in an exposed beam ceiling, each recess is a “coffer”.
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A tray ceiling is a recess-sided coffer as I understand it—where the vertical plane of a coffer usually is, there is a cavetto instead. When used effectively, the cavetto acts to decouple the horizontal planes of soffit and ceiling so the upper-most plane looks like it’s floating. A popular modern gesture is to light the recess with continuous low-candle lamps to enhance the decoupled illusion. The term “tray” ceiling refers to the “floor” of the cavetto in section; it looks like a tray projecting from the recessed vertical plane at the back of the cavetto.
In my experience, coffered is many smaller sections and treyed is a single centyer lift.
I looked up in my archi dictionary and found it described coffered as " A ceiling covered with many deeply recessed panels, often elaborately ornamented"
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"In my experience, coffered is many smaller sections and treyed is a single centyer lift."
We do 3 basic kinds here. They're listed from most popular to least:
1. Come in flat 2' from the wall, then go 1' over/1' up at 45°.
2. Come in flat 2 from wall, then go straight up a foot.
3. Come in flat 2' from wall, go straight up a foot, go another 2' and go straight up another foot.
The dimensions vary a bit, but those are the basics. I've never done one with more than 2 steps.
The only rule of thumb we use is the lower the roof pitch, the higher they want the coffer to be. (-:
Wrinkled was not one of the things I wanted to be when I grew up.
A pig's not a swan and a coffered ceiling is not a trey. Remember those Floridian's also call swamp land, ocean front property.