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Hey Steve
About that comparison with the F/g & the cell filled areas, are all other things equal? The truth now, no fudging!!
Inqusitively
Patrick
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Replies
*
Hey Steve
About that comparison with the F/g & the cell filled areas, are all other things equal? The truth now, no fudging!!
Inqusitively
Patrick
*
Hey Fred
I too am a hot coffee lover, but I got talked into trying one of those positively 'yuppiesh' Iced Mochacino creations from Second Cup and it was really quite tasty.
Don't knock it till you've tried it.. . but not for breakfast.
Patrick
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Guys,
I REALLY didn't mean to talk coffee here. My question STILL stands. In new construction, in rooms where interior surfaces of external walls COULD (because the finish would be hidden behind cabinetry or tile, etc.) be monolithically (ceiling joist to floor level) faced with half-inch rigid insulation, does it NOT make sense to do so? Or, is this a violation of fire code in typical locales.
Brian
*Hi Patrick,No they aren't. The FG room is on the north side of the house and the Cellulose room is on the south side, but that shouldn't matter at night. Other than that, they are equal.Steve
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B
Don't get testy on us now. . . you got a pretty good answer to your querie 2-3 posts back and it was time to move on, and it's always time to move towards coffee.
Freshly ground preferred
Patrick
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Patrick,
I don't want to seem testy, but if you think FredL's response to my querie was "a pretty good answer" then you and I are, truly, on different planets. I honestly feel that Fred failed to accurately read my original post, made some broad assumptions and then decided to go off on a spin. Buttttttttttt, by all means, do enjoy your coffee.
Brian
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Brian
There are times when I too think that Fred is going for a . . . skate(spin), but IMHO this isn't one of those times, and you certainly aren't the first person that has wondered what planet I came from. . . hell I wonder that myself almost daily, just listening to a news report can set me to pondering whether it's me or them that are the aliens. But getting back to your question (I just re-read your post & Fred's answer) do you really think that bumping out the inside of your cuboards 1/2" for maybe R2.5 then adding 1/2" d/wall to meet with fire code requirements is going to be worth the trouble when you will then have to customize a return, or trim piece to butt up against the gables of your cpbds. to hide the bump out? I may be waay out of it here, but I can't think of a single instance when fighting to achieve R2.5 would ever be cost effective.
I suspect only an answer in agreement with your hypothesis will satisfy you, and it would appear that you're still looking for a seconder.
I admire your tenacity. . . whoops, did someone say coffee time?
Patrick
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Brian - extruded or expanded polystyrene require a covering - 3/8 or 1/2" drywall usually. You might get away with solid wood covering - as in a backsplash and the cupboards.
But why? There will be little gained and more expense/problems in sealing the edges and solving blocking problems for hanging stuff.
But I agree that rigid foams belong on the inside, not the outside, in heating climates.
*Eureka, I've finally found (actually, I guess I created it) a thread on this board that contains some genuine arrogance....from Parrick "I suspect only an answer in agreement with your hypothesis will satisfy you, and it would appear that you're still looking for a seconder."Patrick, Patrick, Patrick, Please reread my post(s) as many times as it takes for you to understand that I NEVER stated a hypothesis but rather, I simply ASKED if fire code necessitated an application of a fire-rated material on all interior wall surfaces. I NEVER even implied that all the extra work involved with a full inch thickness of interior wall material was something that was in my plans.For about two weeks now, I've enjoyed numerous threads on this board. They have seemed friendly, interesting, creative. In most all cases I have found a sincere willingness to really read and understand what another person has to ask or say, and I have enjoyed the spins that often result when a responder gets off the track a bit. But it is only upon discovering your arrogance in this thread that I find my enjoyment jeopardized. Brian
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Brian
Please re read your own posts; you aked more than if Fire Code requirements were involved, and three others besides me addressed your Hypothesis.
Sorry to disappoint you, but my dictionary defines hypothesis as, among other things " a provisional explanation of observed facts; supposition, guess".
Forgive my unintentional arrogance, but I still think that Fred's first answer was good and subsequent answers by him and others would seem to
corroberate this.
Chastened, but not chaste
Patrick
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Patrick,
I guess we can agree to disagree about the meaning of "hypothesis", about whether fire code was the obvious point of my post, about whether or not Fred's answer was a good one (no offense, Fred, please) and for that matter whether others agreed that his answer was appropriate to my question.
Fortunately Patrick, we can agree on your arrogance.
Brian
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well well, I will put my 2 cents in to the fray. It is indeed disheartening to see that ppl don't have the courtesy to answer a straight-forward question in a straight-forwrd way. That's one reason I work alone I guess. I'd double- check to see that stud cavities are truly insulated on the exterior wall in question, also Fred's idea to check attic seems good and I'd also check amount of insulation that exists in the attic above the kitchen in general(whole house for that matter).In the meantime I'd leave my mug out the night before as I do for my wife's first cup of coffee. If all the checks reveal no insulation problems, you could use one- bys to act as spacers to hold cabinets out from the wall or try placing 1" styrofoam inside you cabinet to see if it makes a noticeable difference in the cabinet temperatures before going to all the work of doing anything else. Good luck.
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Paul,
I will suggest to you what I have suggested to others, ie, "go back and re-read my original post" and then PLEASE tell me WHERE I said I had any interest whatsoever in repairing the situation in my present home. I'll be waiting for the reply. In the meantime, my thoughts are that if any of you folk are contractors I feel that many of you need to go back to school to learn how to read, and perhaps, how to listen as well. And I would say of myself, that I better get things in writing.
Brian
*Brian - the one question I found in your original post I answered in reply 2.1.2.2.I'll expand. There has to be a thermal barrier over the foam exposed on the inside. 1/2" drywall is listed in the codes I looked in as acceptable. Other coverings may perform to the criteria stated - limit temp rise to 250 degrees f 15 minutes. There are exceptions and alternatives - multi family versus 1 or 2 family; attic or basement; sprinklers; one storey or two; etc.So if you want to send plans and product specs and the exact location or at least which editions of which codes should apply; I'll answer in writing - and send a bill for services of course. I love to work for time and materials. But my opinion is that it is a poor idea or concept - and I think a few people agree with me. I would never have exposed expanded or extruded poly styrene in my house in any significant area - such as a whole wall of a habital room. Even with sprinklers. And since the above research and advice is for free I think I have the right to state this opinion.If anyone is interested - or bothered reading this far - I used 93 BOCA, the draft of the new IBC, and the 976 Life Safety Code as a basis for this interpretation.
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Brian
You're sooo right, waddabunchadorks! Some of the better minds on this forum (myself excluded of course) took the time to read your post, and actually thought you were talking about your own kitchen, and wondering how to fix it. Dummies! Not only that, but some actually went to the trouble to explain how such a phenomenon as you described might be occuring, and wanted you to provide more details so they could offer even more advice. Man, what a bunch of losers! The fact that in your own synopsis of your initial post (2.1.2) you specifcally wondered about replacing 1/2" d/wall with 1/2" board insul. behind kitchen cabinets is so obviously Not referring to the same kitchen cabs. that house your very own coffee mug, that it boggles the mind that these twits could ever make such a leap. Now the real kicker comes at the end, when after drawing to the attention of all concerned, for at least the second time (forgive me I've lost count here) that you aren't talking about fixing your own kitchen, and suggesting politely that they might study your posts and/or take a reading course, a couple of them actually presume to give you even more advice. Whaddabunchabootlickers!
What more can I say. I've never had such an experience as you've been forced to suffer here, and the thought that I might have contributed to your pain distresses me greatly. If I were you (oh do pardon my arrogant penchant for giving advice to the needy) I'd go away and never come back. What else could you do. Your cries are falling upon deaf ears. . . you're going to hurt yourself banging your brilliant head against this immovable wall of stupidity.
There are many lessons to be learned here. . . with time some of us may absorb them, but for others, I fear, darkness will prevail.
Fondest regards
Patrick-(just another illiterate contractor)
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Four degrees outside this morning....that's cold in my book. Reached into the cupboard for my coffee cup....yikes, that was cold to the touch. Having read some of the threads in this forum, I got to thinking and I thought I'd get your thoughts on the subject.
Gosh, ALL that unfinished wall surface hidden cabinetry....could not have the unfinished wall-board that was employed as interior sheathing been substituted by a material with a greater R-value? Afterall, the wall-board does not serve as a paperable or paintable surface in this area. I guess the same thing might apply in a bathroom where an exterior wall might have tile as its interior finish. Does fire code typically mandate the use of a fire-rated material as the finish in these locations? Anyone??
*Hi B,It was twenty below here one night last week, ten below last night. I suspect that the insulation and sealing of the wall system as a whole behind the cabinets is less than air-tight. I blew densepacked cellulose in the walls behind my kitchen cabinets, and they are never cold to the touch at all. This in a house that is very very porous to the exterior in other areas--see my other thread "low budget air seal testing". I've got plenty of other cold spots, but the walls with densepack cells are not a problem.Why worry about that last half-inch? If you've insulated and air sealed the rest of the wall cavity well, the extra R-value gained by substituting a half inch of something with better R-value than drywall won't gain you much.I'm not a cellulose fanatic or anything, I've just been taking advantage of the state of constant construction of my house to try different things and observe what works and what doesn't.The rooms I've insulated with FG are much colder than the ones I've done with densepacked celluloseSteve