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got this college kid still alittle wet behind the ears,he thinks a cold roof i 3/4 osb grace ice/watershield 30lb felt with wood ceder shake as roofing insulation is corebond on the inside of 1 3/4×117/8 rafters also no venting in rafter bays! now the cold roof i have done is basically a 2×4 on edge vented top and bottom with 1×6 over 2×4 30lb felt shake yes there is ice and water shield over whole roof first.you must vent rafters.a little backup from other exp pros this house is 8000 feet 4 mill plus in a part of montana with no building inspections the yellowstone club big sky mt.whatta ya got? mike (the stick) smith
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mike,
Slow down fella, take a deep breath...separate the words a tad. I'm getting a headache trying to follow through with you here...
What's "the stick" mean?
*hah, hah, hah......youse guys yust keel me....
*A cold roof starts with a regular framed roof with sheathing. Felt this roof. Put vertical nailers over this. I use 2x3 on the flat. Sheath this and roof materials on top. Vents top and bottom. The regular roof is completely filled with insulation.
*trying to be different then the other m. smith,thanks i know what a cold roof is i got 19 yrs exp. this college boy dont.p.s.i am from so.cal. in the begining,aint no goat roper from montana.
*I asked when I went to Idaho once, what a goat roper was. Nobody ever answered me.
*Even college boys need educating but, with all due respect, until you breathe into a paper bag and let a little objectivity drift into your conversation ..... well you know what I mean. There are countless references (even by PE's) that define and illustrate a "cold roof" (much as you described).I've learned a few rules by making many mistakes: You don't p_ _ _ into the wind. You don't mess around with Jim. You don't call your brother-in-law a moron in front of your wife. You don't educate someone by standing nose to nose and yelling "I'm Mike The Stick and we've always done it this way you, you college kid." Just some thoughts. Randy
*well randy when i am the lead man and i am in charge of a signature home i have pepole like warren miller,greg lamond wandering around my job site calling there buddies in switzerland telling them to come look at the newest most exclusive ski resort on the planet an build there trophy home i am really not worried about college boy but the the job being done right. and it is not my way it is common practice in the west i have worked in 9 of the 11 western states have seen a little not all in 19 yrs thanks the stick
*I am sorry Mike. Know now that I mis-read your message. Wasn't information you were looking for, but rather someone to agree with you as to just how dumb that college boy is. Sorry, won't get it from me. I saw a good opportunity for you to educate and make an ally of that young fellow - take him under your wing, so to speak. If that is not suitable then just send him down the road - fellow as powerful and experienced as you should not have to worry about little chiggers who are apparently undermining your authority and causing you to lose sleep. Just some thoughts. Randy
*Gets damn cold up there in Montana. Guess they must sell some damn big hats toooooooooooo.
*hey, cousin... how many mike smiths in your tree... mine came from illinois and michigan.. by way of germany...how did you come by yours ?
*Stick,There may be an opportunity here, you could teach that snot nosed college boy how to build, and maybe he can teach you how to write? Sounds like a swell deal to me. Also, 8,000 sf doesn't sound like a very big ski resort. Is there more to it?Regarding the cold roof, what do the plans call for?
*'b 'There's only two types of carpenters. A bad one never learns from their mistakes.Boy Mike I just can't figure how you get around out there with that big chip on your shoulder. This forum is for educating eachother in how we do our craft, not to belittle others for what they think. 19 years is nothing since carpentry has been around since before Christ. I agree with Randy, you had an opportunity, no, obligation, to educate this lad. Instead you chastised him.When you are the lead carpenter you are as responsible for the work as you are the education of your crew and/or others. Dropping names doesn't mean a thing to most of us. The quality of the work does. Go drop the names at the bar. Maybe they'll be impressed. If you want to impress the members of this forum. Go learn how to spell and use proper grammer.BTW - (that means "By The Way") You need to hold down the shift key to make capital letters and they are always at the beginning of sentences."Hacksaw"
*jimmy o... u don't no much... mike smiths ain't allowed to capitalize nuttin...hah, hah, hah...take yur grammer lessons back to school...
*Iliveincharlestonsouthcarolinaand wedonothaveacoldroofbuildingplanbecausethebigproblemisheat.
*ed.. good place to be from.. my nephew graduated from C of C...nice city you got there..too bad about the hot roofs , though
*sounds like thcollege boy might be'a one'a them readers! what'cha got there boy......a book??? what'sa matta....you one'a them there.....readers????this kids sounds like trouble......what with all them new fangled ideas.....next thing ya know....he'll be looking fer answers on thet there intranet! BTW...is this wet behind the ears college kid a carpenter on the crew.....or a designer/architect kinda college kid. Aren't there a set of plans laying around that have this detail.....uh.....detailed? Sounds like a pretty fancy job to be winging it. What'd the customer buy? Jeff
*jim dont have a chip.dont care about proper gammer. didnt know there was a test! look i used the shift key.the college boy dont want to learn, cant help the boys dont want to learn. yea 19 yrs ,a guy who works with me has over 25 , we still keep learning, not closed minded.name dropping was to try and let you understand about how high end it was not just a goat barn.you sir, may spend your time at the bar i do not. i go out and hike, ski enjoy the yellowstone area and as to educating others johnny boy, you gave no help as how a cold roof is properly built,thanks for the help if i need to hear s#$t i will call my x wife. i impess folks with my quality of work not grammer on a stupid computer,so if you would like to put your $ were your mouth is come on out to montana. i will show you my work and you be the judge!! my hat is a denver broncos hat. gotta go out and hike a little sick of the computer screen.be good to everybody peace 420 the stick
*the plans a joke drawn out of state.architect was the college boys degree.all we ge are the structuals and a guess at elevations then as always the owners change a lot and i will say again NO INSPECTIONS it is a free for all. the kid refuses to vent the rafters.yes i am lead carp but college boy is site super and he could not frame his way out of a paper bag,sorry the truth hurts.looks like most of you prefer to give me hard time instead of just explaining venting/cold roof,thought i would get others opinion. p.s. been reading this mag for 18 yrs way before the internet! c-yathe stick
*I worked with two guys over the years, one was pretty well known as "Bob the Best" & the other was "Bob Bitchin".....wonder what mikethestick is known as in the 9 Western states he's worked in? Joe H
*mike, mike, mike.. u still didn't tell me how u came by the mike smith...as to the vent / no vent.. the reason u didn't get an answer is cause there ain't none...knowledgeable builders are pretty well divided on the question, especially in your climate type.. about 7000 degree days , right ?... the most important thing is to have a well thought out strategy for dealing with the problem...me .. i used to vent soffits & ridge.. now i use cellulose and i don't care.. i still vent soffits and ridge.. but it doesn't make any difference as long as i'm using cellulose.. if i was using fiberglass, you're damn straight i'd vent soffits and ridge...and i'd have an unbroken 6 mil poly vapor barrier on the warm side...so.. r u my cousin or ain't u ?
*there spraying corebond.there are no vents.i delt with this back in tahoe in 92, dry rot all in roof. lets see my grandad came over from the old country in 1910-1915 last name of kovoch. i think i know how to say it not spell it,anyways could not get job.changed name to smith got work .side note, my dad was zoltan sidney. i got grandads name of michael. they were from ohio. hungarian-english with just a bit of native american thats me.and for the record there is no chip on my shoulder or anywhere else. the stick c-ya on the mtn.
* i know toastin's fer the tavern but my ten gallons off to youse fellers for the absolute finest thread this side of sacramento....
*Amen Tim, I dun raised my hat to this thread. Been cacklin' lyk a highena
*sorry stick didn't know you wanted an opinion.sounded like you had the whole cold roof thing licked to me. agree with what you said about 2x4 over felt. need to vent outer rafter but not inner.be careful of heat leaks into outer bays.you didn't explain the circumstances of your situation very well, but then again you don't care about grammer or spelling. no wonder your not married anymore. but it's not your fault. no chip on that shoulder, johnny boy, heard you loud and clear. didn't say i went to bars, paco too busy spending time with my kids. no chip on the shoulder, yea heard you the first time.hope you understand, first time typing in your language.
*Stick: I'm not trying to get personal and I know this ain't no Ann Landers thread but I've seen more than a few knowledgable supers, who were showing white at the temples, who just plain couldn't relate to those young, thick-necked bucks pawing the ground in front of them. Often those supers left the trades feeling very bitter, and took their knowledge with them. The successful and long-lived supers (and I worked for a couple as a young, wise guy, upstart) realized that they were going to have to prove themselves to every new generation of laborers, inspectors, and suits - and they seemed to enjoy it. They were patient and treated every assinine question as important and worthy a reply. They were part of the answer, not the problem. I still remember well when one old fart pulled out about 5 volumes of thick American Concrete Institute texts, to explain why he did something a certain way, proving to me that he wasn't mired in tradition when it came to concrete.There have been numerous threads lately regarding the exact subject you brought up. I suspect there are many just itching to help, but that timber on your shoulder that you don't call a chip, has a way of puttin' people off (in my opinion) and "titles and name droppin' ain't gonna hold no sway here".I apologize for tacking away from the technical thread - the hour is late and my glass is empty. If I've overstepped my bounds, well kick my butt and send me down the road. Just some semi-maudlin thoughts. Randy
*stick,Throw 'em a bone and make some capital letters. Show that you're listening, and willing to accept that they may be right.And the rest of you guys, give him some room, let's see what he can do.My opinion on the college boy thing is that college doesn't matter much for building, one way or the other. It sure doesn't hurt. But it doesn't really help. If the guy is too green, maybe you can think of some old rancher tricks to remind him of that, if he's compromising your position as big carp kahuna...ask him if he wants to go on a hoop snake hunt?Dog
*capitalists we all ain't...gotta go. shiftee cummings!brian
*b Another Homeowner. One day we will rule the world.I think what we need here is a little imput from the college boy.
*Rez,If I didn't know better, I would have thought you were trying to stir the pot. I'm all for it, where is the man who can make "the stick" stand tall.pound "the stick" cake(I think i'm going to keep my new name)
* i hope they bury me upside down so you all can kiss my soft whiney beeehind!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! no help here! online sucks ,going back to the magazine.and just so you know college boy thinks this magazine is trash so lets see how many of you stick up for him now? im going skiing now c-ya since when is there a test on proper grammer?
*Oh WAAAAAAAA!
*i no help here!What kind of help were your looking for? Help picking on the newbie? Everybody on the jobsite is sick of listening to your crap while you rag on the kid about what a moron he is, you thought you'd find a new bunch to tell it to? mike, stick it. I ain't gonna line up to kiss it. Joe H
*mike (the bike rack) smith...
*I have a question, and although i don't know anyone famous in Montana, i once had a seat in front of Andie McDowell in a movie theatre, whose husband is a contractor, before they moved away. Why would you put a cold roof on top of a SIP roof? Isn't the moisture movement problem obviated by the SIP? It's not like we have the same climate as Juneau...dry here in MT. Someone throw me a life-link...
*Groupie, Are you in MT as well? This thread had me rolling.Mike the stick, how's the snow? Workin' to hard to skiJB
*i Are you in MT as well?As well as Mike, or as well as you? I'm 30 miles south of Mizzoo. Where are you not skiing? If nobody has said "Hi" yet, welcome to Taunton.
*Groupie,As well as Mike... I'm in Michigan...Spent some time in the Dillon area a few years back...Thanks for thewelcome, I'm new to the FHB online, not the 'zine.All our snow went away :(Jonathan