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Collateral Damage

Brudoggie | Posted in General Discussion on October 2, 2002 03:24am

Tornado(S) touched down in my area last night. We don’t see that very often. The path of destruction is incredible. What’s also incredible is that no one was hurt. Stopped at my insurance agents office this morning. Told them to call if another customer had an emergency situation. Well, about 10:30 the cell ph rings. Guy on the other end says he’s got some roof damage, etc. I drop what I’m doing and rush right out, as we’re expecting more rain tonight. The road in , this is in the country, is barely passible, trees, powerlines lying everywhere. Have to walk the last 1/4 mi. in, line too low to drive around. What I saw upon arrival was stunning! The roof had patches of shingles missing, nothing too bad. Then there was the attached garage. Center post bettween doors pushed in about 18″, 2 of 3 doors gone, side wall( about 28′) and rear wall ( 18′) gone! Amazingly the hip roof was still hanging in the air, although sagging. Found studs from those walls almost 1/4 mi. away in the woods. Lucky the thing was pretty well constructed. Patched up the roof with heavy paper, and framed some temporary walls in the garage, to hold up the roof. Finished that at 4:30, then checked messages to find another of their customers calling with an oak limb lodged in there roof. Head over there, patch it up. The whole neighborhood looks like a war zone! Trees uprooted, laying on houses, cars, you name it. If anyone here needs work, come on over. There’s a heck of alot more than I can handle. Makes me wonder about those who live in tornado or hurricane prolific areas. Don’t think I could handle it. It’s hard to see someones dreams, just blown away. Sorry for the pointless post, just had to get some of this out of my head. If any of you live in areas prone to these disasters, I really feel for you, and you’ve got alot of guts. I wouldn’t want to weather storms like that very often. Even if it is good for business. By the way, an addition we did last year was right in the Red Zone, and came out without a scratch, although the HO’s can’t find their trampoline! I think it’s headed east, better duck Piff! Well. thats all, I need a beer!

 Brudoggie

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  1. Mooney | Oct 02, 2002 04:55am | #1

    Brud , I know its a bad thing to happen to a town . But you are in position to put a daughter or a son through college working it.

    Its not a senseless post . This is your option to make some really good money.

    One  short story, and I will leave it with you.  

    Our first torando here ,  found me the next morning at my dads lumber yard. My brother was a residential building  contractor and so was I. My father was retired as a building contractor with many years of experience. We had coffe at 6.30 in the morning as usuall in the store. Mostly all three of us planned and talked about what we would choose to do. My brother was the first to talk, saying he would go get the biggest jobs he could handle. My father said he would bid as many roofs as he could get, if it were him . Then he would dry them in and work them out. I didnt answer because I wasnt sure what to do, but 30 minutes later after we split up I decided. I was a young contractor playing off my dads business . [to be honest ] After all, he had retired from building but his customers were still calling . I chose to play off his customers again . I went to see all that he had built for in the past. Especially the ones we had made friends with , and trusted us , plus the ones that I had built for working for him.  I attacked the phones , knocking on their doors, plus this lead to working with the agents,  and adjusters. They would ask if I could handle another one .  I accepted all anyone would give me. I wrote 51 quotes in three days !  I wrote everything Allstate had , just riding with the adjusters. All were excepted. I know what you are thinking ." Now what dummy?"

    I ran an add in a bigger town 25 miles away for roofers and carps. I was on dial a trade, peoples exchange , and one more I dont remember the name, for labor to strip roofs and clean up. Of course they had to have a pick up. Opportunity knocked as a few had chain saws and pick up trucks. Checks were written on the spot for preps. Plus my name and the home owners were on the face of the check.  That gave me all I needed for a poke, and security. I got more work as time went along for about the next month, plus my normal work  load went on as usual. But I didnt do any of the work. My competition did. My brother landed three big jobs as he wanted, pluss his work load went on as usual. But he worked the jobs with his crew. All I will tell you was he was envious of me . I was amazed .

    Ive worked two more and had about the same results , doing it the same way.  Plus , I ordered roofing by the truck load straight from the plant. Yes they will sell to you .

    Tim Mooney

    1. Brudoggie | Oct 02, 2002 11:19pm | #7

      Tim,

       I'm taking as much as I can handle, but my schedule is already full for the next 8 months or so. Most of these folks can't wait that long. When the dust settles, I'll probably do a few roof repairs, but don't have time for the real catastrophies. Although the guy with the garage was really interested in having me do all his repairs. Made a good impression I guess. Because of my fast service, I'm on the top of the prefered contractors list with my insurance agent. But I can't take too much work from them now , or it will cut into the time I'm supposed to be building his new home. Not interested in farming out work, I'm a control freak. I have to be there myself, to obtain the results ,I feel are neccessary. Good idea though. A guy could keep an awful lot of crews busy here. My buddy is in the Tree Service business.Saw him this AM, said he had 400 calls so far. He's not sure what to do. Trying to prioritize, but he'll never be able to service all of that. Could hire more help, but the danger factors are too high. I guess some times it's good to know your limitations. Take what you know can be handled properly, price it carefully, and let the rest go. My wise old boss used to say, " we can't build them all, so lets do the ones we can as best we can". That's kind of my feeling too. Seen too many guys, some of them pretty good, tank, because they were spread too thin!

       Brudoggie

  2. User avater
    BossHog | Oct 02, 2002 03:06pm | #2

    Sorry to hear of the problems in your neck of the woods. No reason to feel bad about posting it here and venting a bit.

    What bugs me about stuff like this is that wind design is almost totally ignored in the midwest. Those walls shouldn't have blown out - They should have had some sort of tie down system to hold the walls in place, and a roof hold down system too.

    I've only seen one house in my lifetime that had a decent hold down system, and it's mine. Guess it's my personal pet peeve.

    Our dog is finally housebroken. But he keeps forgetting to put the seat down.

    1. Brudoggie | Oct 02, 2002 10:59pm | #5

      Boss,

       You're right about wind considerations. In this particular case, the top plates remained attached to the rafters, and the first row of block blew off still  attached to the bottom of the wall. I always  like putting on lots of various Simpson ties. Most folks around here consider it "over building". Might change their tune now. It doesn't cost alot to really improve a structure, with the proper mechanical fasteners. So far there are no injuries, due to the storm. But with the quantity of unqualified people doing cleanup, chainsaws and all, that will probably change. Everyone with a truck and a saw is now in the Tree Service business.Scary!! Buttoned up two more roofs today, limb penetrations. Have to get back to my scheduled work though. One garage I saw was picked up and flippped over into the neighbors yard, all in one piece. Bet they wish they'd used more anchor bolts.

       Brudoggie

    2. bill79065 | Oct 02, 2002 11:09pm | #6

      I don't mean to be tacky,and I don't know where you are located but you can bring your tie down system with wood framing down here to Texas and let it take a direct hit from one of our famous tornados and see what is left. I would take this kind of a storm over the hurricanes or earth quakes any day.

      1. User avater
        BossHog | Oct 03, 2002 12:32am | #8

        Every time I talk about wind design, I always get someone who has to make comments about a direct hit from a tornado. I don't find such comments helpful or necessary.

        No one is proposing any kind of structures that can withstand a direct hit from a tornado. But if you go back and read the post at the beginning of this thread, you'll see that the house in question had major structural damage WITHOUT a direct hit. That's the kind of stuff that I'm trying to avoid.

        Try to imagine being at work while your family is home when a tordano hits. Maybe it goes by about a mile or so away from your house, and the winds that hit your house are maybe "only" 120 MPH or so. Wouldn't it be better to have the house tied down in that case? It could very well make the difference between having your house stand mostly intact, or blowing off to Kansas with your (dead) family inside.

        A Freudian slip is when you say one thing but mean your mother.

        1. Mooney | Oct 03, 2002 01:36am | #9

          "better to have the house tied down in that case? It could very well make the difference between having your house stand mostly intact, or blowing off to Kansas with your (dead) family inside. "

          Thats the only point that keeps me from saying let a fire or tornado take it too the ground. Insurance pays total cost , and its easier to get in and rebuild. I guess we could live underground , but you and I would be hungrier. Heard someone say the other day that had a house fire that it took 1 hour for the fire department to arrive. They were pissed. I just laughed , because they should have counted it a blessing. They are getting a new home bigger than before , and the old home needed torn down. But they had max insurance on it , even the cost of the lot and improvements. They got a check for total price , and the whole place wouldnt have brought that. Im not disagreeing with you if thats what a person wants. But you have to stop some where when youve loaded your cart . You just cant go on paying every one that wants a hand out for what they are selling. Question  is , where do we stop?

          Tim Mooney

          1. User avater
            BossHog | Oct 03, 2002 02:08pm | #14

            Tim, I'm not sure I really agree. Sure, insurance pays the cost. But who pays for the insurance?

            Stopping a house fire too early might mean you have to fix the house instead of getting a new one. But it also might mean you save your picture albums, antiques, and other stuff you can't replace.

            As for tie-downs for tornadoes and/or hurricanes - I think it goes beyond saving your own house. If your house gets loose and heads off with Dorothy and Toto, it becomes a missle (Or a BUNCH of missles) that can damage other houses/buildings.

            We're like 2 ships that pass in the night. Two ships that can never decide what movie to see, but other than that we're just like 2 ships.

          2. Mooney | Oct 03, 2002 02:33pm | #16

            I think its a subject that could go on and on with no solid one way answers. I dont have a problem with what you are saying , but Im more talking of spending out of reach with a home as an investment. Sure , the things you speak of are not that expensive , but add it to the list with security, long lasting materials , A cut up roof from hell , An expensive lot , not including its on the side of a mountain with one 12 ft wide access, saving all the trees where there is not room to turn a pick up around . A living room that that doesnt have a ceiling untill you are way up there , and have lost two floors of square footage doing it .  Then you sell the home in five years without recooping on a lot of the extras. That would be one example. I guess Im venting .

            Tim Mooney

        2. bill79065 | Oct 03, 2002 02:39am | #11

          Well I can tell that my comments are not welcome here, just as well. I also think that these tie down systems are code around here and I have not been able to see any difference with or with out them. I have also had that close call and lost it all. Thanks for your reply and I won't bother you again.

          1. Mooney | Oct 03, 2002 03:25am | #12

            Bill , did you just hear me disagree ? Get some thicker skin my friend and get back in here. This would be fairy land if we werent allowed to disagree. I quareentee Brud wont  have a ruffeld feather on him when he reads my disagreement. Of course what I said is none of my business but ,...... LOL! Brud knows I mean well for him.  

            Tim Mooney

          2. User avater
            BossHog | Oct 03, 2002 02:14pm | #15

            Bill, I wouldn't say your comments aren't welcome here. Don't take it personally.

            Maybe I was a bit hard on you, but I disagree pretty strongly.

            Plunder globally. Manage media locally.

        3. Catskinner | Oct 03, 2002 04:28am | #13

          Roger that, Boss.

          Anybody who doubts the value of uplift connections should read the FEMA reports on the Oklahoma City tornados of a few years back.

          As I recall, according to a team of forensic engineers and structural specialists, about 85% of the damage simply would not have happened if the buildings were built to modern code. Anchor bolts, framing clips on the rafters or trusses, etc.

          It isn't the direct hit that does most of the damage. Very few of the houses that were destroyed took what could be described as "direct hits" from tornados. It's the wind-borne debris hitting the next building, and so on.

          Job #1 is keeping the wind out of the inside of the building envelope, which in the midwest typically means better quality garage doors.

          The second most important factor in reducing injury, death, and destruction is reducing the amount of things flying around crashing into other houses.

          Building to model code standards, including the proper use of framing connectors could save a lot of people a lot of misery.

          As my friend Don Dunkley once pointed out, "we are not building the house to withstand average conditions (i.e. the good weather we get most of the time). We are building it to withstand the nth occurance of an unpredictable cyclical event of unknown force, and nothing less than human life is at stake."

          Any time I wonder if I really need that A35 I think about that.

          DRC

  3. Catskinner | Oct 02, 2002 05:23pm | #3

    Nothin' pointless about it, Bru-D. Good post.

    Having helped clean up after a hurricane, I know what you mean. Nothing in civilian life quite prepares you for the sight.

    It's a great opportunity to do good work for people who need it, and genuinely make their lives better.

    DRC

  4. YesMaam27577 | Oct 02, 2002 10:50pm | #4

    I used to live in Ohio, and in 1985,  a really nasty tornado went through. The path was about two miles from my house. You are absolutely correct -- it makes nice neighborhoods look like war zones. Amazingly, a tornado is as likely to snap a tree off a few feet above the ground, as to uproot it. I saw healthy maple and oak trees that were about 30 inches in diameter, which were broken off at about chest height.

    And the most amazing testimony to a tornado's power was when I drove to the next town a couple of days later. Traffic was slowed, because a crane was lifting a steel I-beam from the roadside. The beam looked like it was about 16" across, and probably 20 feet long. And it was twisted in the middle, kind of a spiral. (I later learned that it had been blown, with some steel roofing still attached, from a nearby steel mill that was closed.)

    1. JohnSprung | Oct 04, 2002 02:13am | #18

      Twisters do strange things.  About ten years ago, a waterspout came in and took six squares of roof off my parents house, down to the sheathing.  And ten feet away from the torn edge of the roofing, there were leaves on the roof  that were undisturbed.  It was as if a giant end mill had come in and taken an inch deep cut off the top of that part of the house.

      -- J.S.

      1. r_ignacki | Oct 04, 2002 04:42am | #19

        went to charleston, s.c couple months after hugo hit, that musta been something, soon as I crossed state line into s.c on 95  all the tree's were leaning over, for as far as you can see, awsom.   All the lumberyards had hacks of plywood and shingles stacked up , running out of room in the parking lots, overflowing on to the roads.Peace Pot  Microdot

  5. Mooney | Oct 03, 2002 01:58am | #10

    I can see where you are comming from . Im just wondering if you really know where Im comming from , so I will push it out there for you. An operation like what I was talking about would net about 10,000 per week , for a short time period. I respect what you are  saying , but I would say to hell with the house. Of course Im a little different than most people on here . I think pfn told me something like that . Sonny however , would be by my side in the matter .So I guess we agree to disagree. I wont ask you how much you will make on that house , and maybe you wouldnt do as good as I said if you followed my advice . I think there is a big difference though. You are paying a premium for your pride of workmanship. I have to respect you .   I always take the best investment , even if its like digging in a hog pen .  We are different and thats ok.  

    Tim Mooney

    1. Brudoggie | Oct 04, 2002 01:44am | #17

      Tim,

       I agree it's an awesome opportunity. I'm just not comfortable,as you know, with running that way. Nothing wrong with it though. I don't consider myself to be a great businessman. I'm much happier doing the actual work, than bidding, scheduling, managing, etc. Thank the lord for Quick Books! The main reason I work for myself is to have the control over the product. I run a small operation. Financially, I operate very lean, so I can make a descent living, without sacrificing what I value. I won't die a wealthy man, but I have all I need, and get to spend lots of time with my family. I certainly appreciate different priorities though. Capitalism is a great thing. If you've got the drive to go after the " golden ring", more power to you. You won't have to worry about me fighting you for it. I'll settle for the "ring aroundthe tub" from the kids baths! As for retiring, don't you know? There are no old contractors around here, they're all dead. Having "the big grabber" with the hammer in your hand doesn't sound like a bad way to go. Beats alot of other options.

       Brudoggie

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