Replies

1. 
   MikeSmith | Sep 27, 2005 10:33pm | #1

   can you repost your pic so we'll know what you are describing ?

   i can't view your pic

   Mike Smith Rhode Island : Design / Build / Repair / Restore
1. 
   Sailfish | Sep 27, 2005 10:42pm | #2

   Did that work?-----------------------------------------------------------------------------

    

   WWPD

1. 
   MikeSmith | Sep 27, 2005 10:50pm | #3

   no.. still no pics hereMike Smith Rhode Island : Design / Build / Repair / Restore

1. 
   Sailfish | Sep 27, 2005 10:56pm | #4

   #@$#* ! ($@)

   Last time

   Hope you got something for me Mike ;-)

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   WWPD

1. 
   MikeSmith | Sep 28, 2005 12:22am | #5

   well...

    this is the top of your column..

   View Image

   i guess it's a square column or you're a glutton for punishment trying to shape crown mold to a round column..

   some of the things that make a  column nice are trying to get as close to the classic ideal as possible

   for starters.. you measure the ht. from where the base sits to the beam it supports..

    and divide this  by 9 or 10  .. this dimension becomes your diameter of the column

   the base is 1/2 this diameter  and the capital is 1/2 this diameter.... all of the parts are called out and calculated  by diameters

   two great books for getting the basics of this are  The American Vignola  ( William R. Ware )   Dover Publications

   and a double book :

    Practise of Architecture  &  The Builder's Guide  which are 2 pattern books by Asher Benjamin..... De Capo Press

    

   both volumes are in paperback

   i usually start with the Tuscan order when i'm trying to make my columns a little special.. 

   here's a link showing a tuscan column.

   http://ah.phpwebhosting.com/a/DCTNRY/p/pallad/source/2.html

   here's another link describing all of the above..

   http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Classical_orders#Measurement

   the capital makes you think of "crown mold" and crown is often used to fake  the look and feel ..

    but there are actually more simple things you can do to acheive what you want..

   also , keep in mind the base sets the tone for the capital.. make sure you have a nice plinth base and torus  and the eye will see the capital in a whole different light

   when i get home i'll post some pics to molding we shaped out of Azek

   Mike Smith Rhode Island : Design / Build / Repair / Restore

   Edited 9/27/2005 5:25 pm ET by MikeSmith

   Edited 9/27/2005 5:35 pm ET by MikeSmith

2. 
   MikeSmith | Sep 28, 2005 12:41am | #6

   here's our base....

                              CINCTURE

                  TORUS

   PLINTH

   View Image

   and our capital

   View Image

   Mike Smith Rhode Island : Design / Build / Repair / Restore

   Edited 9/27/2005 5:44 pm ET by MikeSmith

3. 
   Sailfish | Sep 28, 2005 04:17am | #7

   That is the EXACT capital I want.

   Yes they are square.

   Actually, believe it or not, the traditional "Key West" column doesn't have a base. It remains square.

   Did you say you made that capital with Azek? Did you route the material yourself or buy it that way?

    

   Excellent, excellent stuff Mike thanks I had no idea we had a resident column expert. I recall my days in college studying doric, ionic and corithian columns, never having thought I would get to actually talk about them in "real life" lol

    

   oh here is what I am starting with:

   View Image

    

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   WWPD

4. 
   MikeSmith | Sep 28, 2005 06:35am | #8

   sail... those pedestals cry out "craftsman" columns to me..

    did you see the article by gary katz in FHB ?

   here's some of our craftsman columns

   View Image

   Mike Smith Rhode Island : Design / Build / Repair / Restore

   Edited 9/27/2005 11:36 pm ET by MikeSmith

5. 
   MikeSmith | Sep 28, 2005 06:45am | #9

   yes.. all of the columns  and their parts were made on our router table

   most of them were built up over a PT base

   View Image

   you can see the profile we used in the capital above

    

   Mike Smith Rhode Island : Design / Build / Repair / Restore

   Edited 9/27/2005 11:46 pm ET by MikeSmith

   
6. 
   Ragnar17 | Jul 18, 2007 02:48am | #18

   Mike,

   Have you ever tried making Azek newel posts or piers WITHOUT core framing?  I've got a situation where I'm going to need to attach newels to an existing concrete slab and am having a hard time figuring out a way to mechanically fasten them and simultaneously make them very weather resistant.

   Any pointers?

   Thanks in advance,

   Ragnar

7. 
   MikeSmith | Jul 18, 2007 03:38am | #19

   we  had a long flight of exterior concrete stairs.. with a concrete landing

   we went to HD .. bought  a  couple of the galvanized post base   ... they're about  18" high ..

   drilled & epoxied them in

   then built our columns  around that core... solidMike Smith Rhode Island : Design / Build / Repair / Restore

8. 
   Ragnar17 | Jul 18, 2007 07:40am | #20

   Hi Mike,Were those galvanized post bases at HD a Simpson product? I just looked through my catalog at the available post bases and didn't see anything close to 18" high. Do you happen to have any pictures, or do you know that product name?

9. 
   MikeSmith | Jul 18, 2007 12:43pm | #21

   They were part of the New England series of post & rail  that HD carries

   i've seen other rail & post mfr's with similar devices.. basically an 18"  -  24"  base that gets epoxied  in and the post slips over itMike Smith Rhode Island : Design / Build / Repair / Restore

10. 
    Ragnar17 | Jul 18, 2007 09:17pm | #24

    basically an 18"  -  24"  base that gets epoxied  in and the post slips over it

    I wonder if we have anything like that out on the west coast..... I can't seem to remember seeing one of those before. 

    If you could possibly dig up a picture that would be great.

    Do you think something like this simpson post base would work?  We could put in a 4x4 structural core and then slip over a hollow box made of Azek.  The 4x4 would be up off the ground a bit and therefore the end grain should stay out of water.

     

    View Image

     

     

    
11. 
    Sailfish | Jul 18, 2007 07:05pm | #23

    Mike I hope I made you proud. You have been beyond helpful:

     

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    "If you come to a fork in the road, take it"

    
12. 
    MikeSmith | Jul 18, 2007 11:57pm | #25

    wowzer ...

     those turned out really niceMike Smith Rhode Island : Design / Build / Repair / Restore

13. 
    Sailfish | Sep 28, 2005 03:42pm | #11

    First off thank you. I'm slowly gaining the confidence to tackle this, in fact I am somewhat inspired to be more ..........creative with them. The wife wants me to do a drive by on a nearby residence to check some out. I hope my skills are up to her tastes. HA

    I saw the trim article this month by GK, If there is another pertaining to this subject i'll have to go back and check myy old issues (I only have a years worth).

    Lastly, you do excellent work, a true craftsman.-----------------------------------------------------------------------------

     

    WWPD

2. 
   RW | Sep 28, 2005 08:00am | #10

   I copied this off some website years ago. Cut N paste . . . maybe it helps you determine proportions.

   Tuscan Order

   Take any height proposed for this Order, and divide it into five equal Parts; one of those Parts shall be the Height of the Pedestal; the other four Parts above must be divided into five Parts; the upper fifth part shall be the Height of the Entablature, and the other four Parts betwixt the Pedestal and Entablature, shall be the Height of the Column, including its Base and Capital; and this Height being divided into seven Parts, one of those Parts will be the Diameter of the Column, which Diameter is divided into sixty equal Parts, and is called a Module; and this will serve to set off all the Mouldings for this Order.

   Doric Order

   Take any Height upon a straight Line, as in the Tuscan Order, and divide it into five equal Parts; one of them shall be the Height of the Pedestal; the other four Parts must be divided into five Parts, one of which is the Heigth of the Entablature; the remaining four Parts must be divided into eight Parts; one of them is the Diameter of the Column, or Module, which divide into sixty equal Parts, as in the Tuscan Order, to set off all the Mouldings, as you will see on the right Hand, where you have the Plan of the Cornice.

   Ionic Order

   Take any Height, as in the foregoing Orders, and divide it into five equal Parts, one of these Parts is the Height of the Pedestal; the other four being divided into six Parts, one of them is the Height of the Entablature; the remaining five Parts must be divided into nine equal Parts; one of them is the Diameter of the Column or Module, which is divided into sixty equal Parts as before; the Mouldings are at large, with a Scale or Module to draw them.  The Column is diminished one-sixth of its Semi-diameter on each Side, from one-third Part of its Height. The Base and Capital are each in Height a Semi-diameter.

   Corinthian Order

   The whole Height is divided into five Parts, one of them must be for the Pedestal, the other four remaining Parts must be divided into six; one of them will give the Height of the Entablature, the other five, betwixt the Pedestal and Entablature, must be divided into ten Parts, one of which is the Diameter of the Column, or Module, which divide into sixty equal Parts as before; the Base is in Height a Semi-diameter of the Column; the Capital is one Module, and ten Parts, in Height: The other Dimensions are as in the Ionic Order.

   Composite Order

   Take any determined Height, as in the Corinthian Order, and divide it into five Parts, one Part shall be the Height of the Pedestal, the other four Parts must be divided again into six Parts as before; one of them is the Height of the Entablature: The Height of the Capital is one Module, and ten Parts: The Column diminishes one-sixth of its Semi-diameter on each Side, from one-third Part of the Height. The Dimensions are as in the Corinthian Order.

    

   "If you pick up a starving dog and make him prosperous, he will not bite you. This is the principal difference between a dog and a man." - Mark Twain

1. 
   Sailfish | Sep 28, 2005 03:44pm | #12

   RW, thats good stuff. Sort of reads like a legal brief!

   And kids say they would never have to use math when they grow up!

   I'll have to take at least one weekend to go over all this, plan it, put it down on paper and then another week to get the supplies in order.

   Thanks!-----------------------------------------------------------------------------

    

   WWPD

1. 
   MikeSmith | May 10, 2007 04:23am | #13

   got your email... so.. let's see the pics so we can start thinking about the base

   << The columns are 5 1/2 " the capital finished out at 9 1/2" Should the base be slightly wider for aesthetics? is slightly smaller acceptable? And how HIGH is too high for the base? >>>how high is the base... how tall are the columns ? we still talking about this ..View Image 

   Mike Smith Rhode Island : Design / Build / Repair / Restore

   Edited 5/9/2007 9:25 pm ET by MikeSmith

   Edited 5/9/2007 9:26 pm ET by MikeSmith

1. 
   Sailfish | May 10, 2007 04:39am | #14

   yes.

   and here is the finished capital

    

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   WWPD

   
1. 
   Sailfish | May 10, 2007 04:51am | #15

   Had to dig up a pic of all 4, sorry I haven't a pic with them all finished.

   I was saving that pic for the unveiling of my "craftsmanship"

   View Image

    

    

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   WWPD

   
2. 
   MikeSmith | May 10, 2007 01:26pm | #16

   well the ht of the base will be the same ( or aproximately so ) as the ht of the capital

   CINCTURE

   TORUS

   PLINTH

    

   and we made ours out of 3/4 Azek  ( actually Koma on that job )

   View Image

   i think the TORUS was two pcs of 5/4 glued up with Azek cement before we routed itMike Smith Rhode Island : Design / Build / Repair / Restore

3. 
   Ragnar17 | Jul 18, 2007 02:43am | #17

   Hi Sailfish,

   Do you have any more pictures of this project?

   By the way, I sent you an email because I have some questions about how you went about making the post piers.  I have an upcoming project, and we might be able to use a similar approach --- let me know if you'd be willing to answer a few questions.

   Thanks,

   Ragnar

4. 
   Sailfish | Jul 18, 2007 07:02pm | #22

   Yes I do.

   i'll shoot you an email

    

    

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   "If you come to a fork in the road, take it"